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Replacing broadband with 5G router - MC801A - roof antenna advice

markie76

Casual Member
Hello,

So due to rising costs and landlord not giving permission to fttp ISP's permission to install to the building, I have bitten the bullet and decided to get a 5G router (MC801AA) and ID (Three) unlimited contract and would like your expert advice.

Location is N London and both ID & Three coverage checker shows good 5G outside but 4G good inside & outside. My street is just one strreet away from the all good 5G area.
My Vodafone mobile has 4 bars 5G indoors with good fluctuating sppeedtest results.
With my Vodafone SIM in the MC801A the mbps rate hovers betweeen 35-40 - just a bit higher than my broadband.
I haven't yet tried finding an optimal site for the router.

I have a satellite dish at the highest point of the building where it has clear line-of-sight to a mobile transponder site about 600/700 metres away. I don't know which network.
There is another mobile transponder on the opposite side about 300 metres away which I think is O2.
Some street work is being done near the O2 transponder which the Council shows linked to preparation for a 'telephone mast' - neighbours have said it will be a 5G mast.

My current question is what would be the best antenna to try and optimal connection cable to use?
The downlink cable from the satellite dish is around 20 metres long.
Can the 5G antenna link cable be bundled together with the satellite cable?

Thanks,

Mark

PS. Is ID/Thrree 'unlimited' really unlimited in the UK? (unlike Vodafone's 'unlimited' which now has FUP of 600gb)
 
If you try to use an outdoor antenna with 20 metres worth of cable you’re going to lose any benefit and make your signal worse than it would be without it. For longer runs like that you need an outdoor router instead. If sticking to an antenna you need to reduce this length significantly. Ideally 5M or less.

Three’s unlimited is indeed unlimited.
 
If you try to use an outdoor antenna with 20 metres worth of cable you’re going to lose any benefit and make your signal worse than it would be without it. For longer runs like that you need an outdoor router instead. If sticking to an antenna you need to reduce this length significantly. Ideally 5M or less.

Three’s unlimited is indeed unlimited.
Worse as in loss due to the length and/or the cable picking up interference?

Is it possible to have a booster/filter in the cable run?
 
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Worse as in loss due to the length and/or the cable picking up interference?

Is it possible to have a booster/filter in the cable run?
A bit of both, but mostly losses.
Adding more equipment to a long cable run is asking for more trouble than it's worth.

If you can't make the router work well on it's own, and you don't think that 5M of cable is enough to connect antenna to router in a suitable location then don't go any further with that setup plan.

I Have an outdoor router which I think has a 20 metre ethernet cable coming from it. That works well for delivering the exact speed that the router is picking up into the house without loss or interference. Speaking from experience, this works vastly better than a router with 7M worth of cable to an external antenna in the exact same position.
 
If you can't make the router work well on it's own

^This^

If 4G is good inside you'll be OK for 4G speed unless the mast is too busy. Three phone coverage checker says I have no 5G and their 4G/5G broadband checker says "no" to both, yet I get 4-5 signal strength bars on 5G indoors and speeds averaging 600Mpbs ... at the right location/orientation in the house.
 
I Have an outdoor router which I think has a 20 metre ethernet cable coming from it. That works well for delivering the exact speed that the router is picking up into the house without loss or interference. Speaking from experience, this works vastly better than a router with 7M worth of cable to an external antenna in the exact same position.
That was going to be my next question, what if I bring the router to the antenna... 😁
 
^This^

If 4G is good inside you'll be OK for 4G speed unless the mast is too busy. Three phone coverage checker says I have no 5G and their 4G/5G broadband checker says "no" to both, yet I get 4-5 signal strength bars on 5G indoors and speeds averaging 600Mpbs ... at the right location/orientation in the house.
I dream to see anything close to 600mpbs on a speedchecker....
 
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That was going to be my next question, what if I bring the router to the antenna... 😁
When I say outdoor router, I meant I own a purpose built router that's designed to run outside and pair up with an indoor device to distribute the network around the home. I personally have an Askey RTL6300 outside paired with an RT5010W inside. And I know the ZTE MC7010 Is another fairly popular model too.

For you if you want to make use of the MC801A You already have I wouldn't risk trying to put that outside as it's not weatherproof and you'll also struggle with wiring for that. The best you can do if you don't want to replace it with an outdoor device would be to play around with it in different locations and angles around your home to see where is best with it's built in antennas. I honestly wouldn't waste money on external antennas at this point, and just jump straight to outdoor routers if a fully indoor system wasn't enough.
 
Some initial feedback.
I also have a Huawei H112-372.

On the Southern side I tried my Vodafone SIM in both and got;
ZTE MC801 - 35-40Mbps
Huawei - 30-45Mbps
My stated broadband (fibre but not fttp) speed is 38Mbps which in tests hovers around 34 with u/l 8Mbps.

I tried windowsills on opposite sides and the Northern side was worse with 5G signal weak and dropping to 4G more on both.

I got my ID Mobile SIM.
Southern side;
Huawei - 35-60Mbps (bursts of 70/80)
But after the first 10/15 minutes after power on, the 5G LED was going orange then red/off.
ZTE - 55-80Mbps (bursts of 100/110)
Signal strength LED's fluctuating from 1-3 LEDs but remaining on 1 most of the time and admin panel showing 4G connection.

I found a spot about 1.5m away from the Southern window on a shelf 1.6m up where the ZTE was showing 120-140Mbps with bursts of 200. It was coming up to 1am so need to repeat during the day and try the Huawei.

Is there a map available of masts and host providers available anywhere? I searched but can't remember finding one.

I don't have an issue taking the router to the antenna at the high location as I'm a bit into DIY and it would be an interesting project.
Or an antenna outside the window on the Southern side - which is in line-of-sight of a block 600/700m away with masts at each corner of the roof.

Thanks.
 
Bit of experience here with outdoor antenna. You want to keep the cable between the antenna and the router short.
1. Yes the cable can act like an antenna and pick up interference.
2. Any gain in signal strength maybe lost with a longer cable, as the longer the cable the more resistance there is (I think) so signal strength is lost.
This is why often people place the 5G or 4G modem in the best place for speeds (often in attic) then run an ethernet connection to a switch / wireless access point to where the Internet is needed. In my case (a rural location) I had antenna put on an out building and the router inside building. Internet needed in house, so there is a point to point wifi connection back to main house to a switch and wifi.
Bear in mind that the strongest signal stats doesn't necessarily mean the fastest speeds. Depends on the radio bands being used by the mast. There is a trade off, the longer the wavelength the further the signal will g, but the lower the speeds. The shorter the wavelength the higher the speeds, but signal won't travel as far. Then there is how populated the mast is? You have to share that bandwidth with everyone using the mast. 5G isn't always faster than 4G. You could get better speeds on 4G. The higher the Category of mobile router (I have Cat 8) the faster it can go. That said you can go for a 5G router, as it will go fast even when connected to 4G. Future proof. Then there is a choice of antenna. Omni-direction (360) or directional. I went directional as pointing to one mast in rural location, to add a second Internet connection to a 8Mbps ADSL connection. Given urban location, presume omni-directional to connection to a couple of different masts.
So quite a bit to consider. Quite a bit of trial an error. You can set something up without too much hassle and get some speeds you are happy with. Done. Or you can keep chasing higher speeds, adjusting antenna or router, different SIMs. Even swapping SIMs to find cheap prices. Good luck with it. Let us know how you get on. Lots of really knowledgable and helpful people on here to help out.
 
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Thank you for your replies.

My main requirement is a stable connection for WFH from 8am for 10 hours a day. My 34Mbps broadband was fine for that so let's target a stable 5G connection of around 50Mbps.

It sounds like the easiest option would be to first try a directional antenna just outside the Southern window.

The mast on the nearest block is not showing showing up on CellMapper for any network - does that mean it isn't in use anymore? Or it is filtered for some reason - I am finding it fiddly to use and can't see anyway to get all masts to just show on the map.

There are two Sourthern 'Three' masts showing nearby but both aren't line-of-sight;
The first is 440m away and is 4G/LTE (13353) obscured by pitched roofs.
The second 780m away also 4G/LTE (419) and obscured by buildings.

The nearest Northern mast looks to be 625m away 4G/LTE (4583) and also obscured by residential houses.

So where is my 5G signal coming from? A mast further away or another network provider's mast?
Are my routers 'high capacity' ones?
Can you recommend a good reasonably priced wall antenna kit with everything required to mount it.

Thanks.
 
Thank you for your replies.

My main requirement is a stable connection for WFH from 8am for 10 hours a day. My 34Mbps broadband was fine for that so let's target a stable 5G connection of around 50Mbps.

It sounds like the easiest option would be to first try a directional antenna just outside the Southern window.

The mast on the nearest block is not showing showing up on CellMapper for any network - does that mean it isn't in use anymore? Or it is filtered for some reason - I am finding it fiddly to use and can't see anyway to get all masts to just show on the map.

There are two Sourthern 'Three' masts showing nearby but both aren't line-of-sight;
The first is 440m away and is 4G/LTE (13353) obscured by pitched roofs.
The second 780m away also 4G/LTE (419) and obscured by buildings.

The nearest Northern mast looks to be 625m away 4G/LTE (4583) and also obscured by residential houses.

So where is my 5G signal coming from? A mast further away or another network provider's mast?
Are my routers 'high capacity' ones?
Can you recommend a good reasonably priced wall antenna kit with everything required to mount it.

Thanks.

On the "where is the mysterious 5G coming from" if you have something that allows you to see the TA of it you can find out how far away it is like that and then go from there.

It could also be that it hasn't been covered by anyone yet and that's why you can't find it on cellmapper.

Like SA20 said below, for the best connection possible you need to keep the cables as short as possible.
 
My experience is that cellmapper and network coverage maps can only give you an indication. You will need practical experimentation if you want to find the best compromise.

From first hand experience, I would also echo what others have said If you are going to use external antenna the keep the cables a short as possible. Better still, get rid of them altogether.
 
I haven't yet tried finding an optimal site for the router.
I would recommend first finding the optimal location available within your property for the router with its internal antennas first (making sure to try illogical locations and convenient locations which may be dismissed as not worth trying).

The signal parameters for this optimal internal location should be the basis for determining whether it is worthwhile to consider an external antenna or external router, and for evaluating the benefit if one of these is installed.

If there is no appetite for optimizing the internal router positioning, it is unlikely that external positioning of an antenna or external router would be successful unless you are lucky to get a very enthusiastic engineer who will find an excellent location on your behalf.

I presume transponder was intended to mean transmitter or transmitting antenna, or tower, or mast, or base station, etc.
 
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If going Ext antenna you want the highest gain and lowest loss cable. I am 2.5km from my mast and use an Poynting XPOL-24 with 4 x LMR400 low loss cables (10m). No signal gain, but much more stable and double the download speed. Other rural options are the Iskra P-62 but these are large LPDA antennas.

See https://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/threads/antenna-for-three-5g-hub.39528/page-10#post-330869
Unfortunately a £250 antenna like that is not possible at the moment unless I find a very very cheap used & working one. :(

I would recommend first finding the optimal location available within your property for the router with its internal antennas first (making sure to try illogical locations and convenient locations which may be dismissed as not worth trying).

The signal parameters for this optimal internal location should be the basis for determining whether it is worthwhile to consider an external antenna or external router, and for evaluating the benefit if one of these is installed.

If there is no appetite for optimizing the internal router positioning, it is unlikely that external positioning of an antenna or external router would be successful unless you are lucky to get a very enthusiastic engineer who will find an excellent location on your behalf.

I presume transponder was intended to mean transmitter or transmitting antenna, or tower, or mast, or base station, etc.
So I had thought I found a 'sweet spot' by hanging the router just inside the lounge window right in the middle. Initially getting 80-150mbps and sometimes around 250mbps late evening but measly 0.5-2mbps upload!
But this was very variable with DL going as low as 5-30mbps and UL not even registering or the speedtest just failing. Even with those numbers, my VOIP calls were frequently experiencing severe loss of quality.
The Three website network status checker has stated for some months now;
"We're working on the network in this area at the moment. We're sorry for any disruption this may be causing. We hope to be finished working on these improvements as soon as possible. We'll add any further updates here."

Don't know if this is for real or they're just covering themselves for a bed service are.
Interestingly a new Three 5G mast went up about 6 weeks ago around 250m from my location - but it isn't even showing on Cellmapper yet and when you stand by the equipment cabinet you can't hear any fans or other sound inside it. So I'm presuming it has not yet been commissioned.


So I would like to try a basic/cheap external antenna mounted outside that window.
My MC801a has antenna sockets but as it is a Three branded one, I was reading they may actually be disabled? (The router works with a Vodafone SIM - so not network locked?)
I do also have a Huawei H112-372 which I am not using as it doesn't have an RJ11 socket for a phone to make calls on the 5G SIM. (if there is a way around this I'd be interested in knowing it - my VOIP runs with an N300IP unit).

Thanks,
 
Unfortunately a £250 antenna like that is not possible at the moment unless I find a very very cheap used & working one. :(


So I had thought I found a 'sweet spot' by hanging the router just inside the lounge window right in the middle. Initially getting 80-150mbps and sometimes around 250mbps late evening but measly 0.5-2mbps upload!
But this was very variable with DL going as low as 5-30mbps and UL not even registering or the speedtest just failing. Even with those numbers, my VOIP calls were frequently experiencing severe loss of quality.
The Three website network status checker has stated for some months now;
"We're working on the network in this area at the moment. We're sorry for any disruption this may be causing. We hope to be finished working on these improvements as soon as possible. We'll add any further updates here."

Don't know if this is for real or they're just covering themselves for a bed service are.
Interestingly a new Three 5G mast went up about 6 weeks ago around 250m from my location - but it isn't even showing on Cellmapper yet and when you stand by the equipment cabinet you can't hear any fans or other sound inside it. So I'm presuming it has not yet been commissioned.


So I would like to try a basic/cheap external antenna mounted outside that window.
My MC801a has antenna sockets but as it is a Three branded one, I was reading they may actually be disabled? (The router works with a Vodafone SIM - so not network locked?)
I do also have a Huawei H112-372 which I am not using as it doesn't have an RJ11 socket for a phone to make calls on the 5G SIM. (if there is a way around this I'd be interested in knowing it - my VOIP runs with an N300IP unit).

Thanks,
If a mast is soon to be switched on 250 m from your location, it's fairly likely you won't require an external antenna, and any money spent on an external antenna to signal to a mast 250 m away will be primarily spent on impatience and not improved signal. :)
 
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