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RIP Metronet, Plusnet's done it again

pistolpete said:
Why should I spend time helping you get it right, you'll pay me? No, I didn't think so. I'll just go to someone who gives me what I pay for with no hassle.

That's fair enough but you cannot fault me for trying to help. It seems to be a common misconception that ISPs can magically resolve faults at the push of a button. Sadly (and much to my dismay at times!) this is not the case. Customer do need to help us from time to time before we are able to help them. In addition to this BTW will often brick-wall any attempt to raise a fault if we provide incomplete test results or missing information. Remember, you have a self-install ADSL package. Given this it's hardly surprising that you may be required to carry out client side diagnostics from time to time is it? BT used to offer engineer installed ADSL services (which we sold) but with a £260 installation fee for the equipment and faceplate install, and £50/mnth thereafter for a 512K connection then I'm sure most would settle for having to do the occasional bout of troubleshooting? @pistolpete, BTW will not accept a speed fault from us without you having run the BT Speedtests. This is no different to how any other ISP operates unless an intrusive woosh test or similar reports an obvious fault on the line. As I'm sure you're aware, if this is a fault with your circuit, a switch of ISP may well leave you experiencing the same problems. If your BT Speedtest results are close to full speed then I would have to admit that it would look like a problem across our network or with your account.

benjak said:
Its not just metronet customers that experience slow speeds. I have lost count of the number of times my 2Mb service slows down to below 200kbps even as low as 90kbps.

This morning at 10.47a.m. the BT speed test site registered it at 193Kbps (not unusual)

Just because these speeds are not registered between the hours of 12 midnight and six in the morning, Plusnet say it is a contention issue and do not want to sort the problem.

This isn't neccessarily true. Out of interest what is the status of your exchange? As mentioned above there are set criteria that must be met before BT will accept a speed fault. Once initial diagnostics have been conducted to rule out the most common causes, BTW will normally expect 3 or more BT Speedtests to be conducted throughout the day. It is normally asked that one of these is conducted between the hours of midnight and 6am. This is where the problem lies. If BTW consider you to be receiving above a defined threshold during these hours (which is very low, about 400kbps on a 2MB line), then they have a tendency to reject the fault as being down to contention and this is very difficult for an ISP to overcome.

I think that Bpullen shows a certain amount of arogance when he wrote:
((On the other hand if you're here for the rant then I'll leave you to it)) Of course you are raving because the service is not what you should expect.

Far from being arrogant, if you read the rest of my comments I was trying to offer my assistance. I do not get paid to post here and as such am trying to help. The OP started a thread criticising Metronet with very little justification as to why they were led to think this way or what we had done to create such opnion. IMO such a post helps neither the poster nor the reader as it offers little debate nor serves as a topic of discussion. Resolving service issues is reliant on a customer accepting the assistance offered to them and working with us with regards to obtaining the information required by BTW. If a customer is reluctant to do this then I fail to see how we can attempt to resolve the issue? To chastise the level of a support a company provides whilst portraying a blatant refusal to accept it seems slightly contradictory to me?

When I started using Plusnet there speed was always good and reliable. Sadly that is not the case now. I don't get a lot of time to search out for a better ISP but when I do get it, I will be on the move. I also have had enough. Oh! and by the way Bpullen, I am not ranting and raving

The thought didn't cross my mind! ;)
 
When I first joined Plusnet 11 months ago, one of the major reasons for joining was the helpful input given by Plusnet staff on forums.

Now, Plusnet did go through a period of less than perfect communication, and I am sure Bob would accept that as fair critisism.

However, they do seem to have learned from that unfortunate era, and I am delighted that Bob and others are now back to giving help and advice.

It is very satisfying knowing that if I needed help, there is someone around.

I am not sure why people are getting speed problems, all I can say is mine is always OK. The perfect ISP doesn't exist, they all have blips from time to time, surely it is only fair to follow the correct procedures before slating any ISP.

I am on a monthly contract, wires only, so I can leave them at the drop of a hat, but as yet, I have not had cause to.

The grass isn't always greener on the other side, better the devil you know etc..etc.;)

Anyway Bob, I appreciate your input, thanks.
 
Sorry to spoil the party but heres another UNHAPPY Metro/PLUSnet customer.

As soon as I found out about the acquasition of Metronet by Plusnet I requested my MAC from Metronet. I have left Plusnet for Metronet so was least pleased.

Now when I requested my code I was informed I would pay pro-rata for my time with Metronet. I recieved my final bill and it was for a complete month.

I rang the helpdesk and was told with typical PLusnet customer support gaul, thats the bill so pay it... no pro-rata!!

Anyway I paid the bill, and guess what... this month I'm billed again for a service that I am not a customer of. The advisor had to check with BT to see if my migration was complete. He then credited my account. Luckily I paid by BACs, but I guess if I had a credit card 'on file' I would have been debited.

I'm sorry Plusnet but until you sort out your shambles of a billing section, more negative comments will fall your way from disgruntled customers.

The sour taste you left me with with held me from recommending your service to the 6 customers I visit on a daily basis.

Your loss

Ray
 
Hi Ray,

Sorry to hear of your troubles but glad that they got sorted in the end. We're actually still using Metronet's billing platform until the next phase of integration late this month /early next.

Regards,
 
Hi

No, bpullen it may not be “neccessarily true” but having had the exchange thoroughly checked out (and by the way the status of my echange is “green”) could it just be that the problem does lay with our ISP. It appears that contention need not necessarily only be at the exchange. Please see below.
==========================================
CONTENTION
The first more traditional contention comes next, as connections run off to each subscriber's ISP, using bandwidth which their ultimate broadband provider has (or maybe hasn't) invested in sufficiently. You could be squeezed through a 2Mbps gateway, or rushed along a 155Mbps central pipe - only your ISP knows for sure. The next point of contention is the ISP's network, followed by the size of their link to the Internet. An under-capitalised ISP will try to fit too many end users onto its link from the BT exchanges, or through its own network, or its link to the Internet. At busy times, packets will be dropped and performance will be slow. Some ISPs quote contention ratios on their Web sites which relate to contention on their own network which can cause confusion as these ratios are in addition to those quoted by BT for the base service.
=================================================

Pistolpete, I am sorry if I seemed to hijack your thread but some things need to be said. I am sure that Bpulen will want to have the last word and I certainly don't wish to get into a game of tennis with him on this, so I will wish you luck and stop posting and let him defend Plusnet which from his very existence on this site in my mind shows that perhaps they feel that they do need to monitor such threads. I am a firm believer in the old adage, “there is no smoke without fire”

by the way, having tested at 193kbps yesterday a.m. I have just tested and still found a speed of less 1Mb. Not good in my opinion.

regards :(
 
benjak said:
Hi

No, bpullen it may not be “neccessarily true” but having had the exchange thoroughly checked out (and by the way the status of my echange is “green”) could it just be that the problem does lay with our ISP. It appears that contention need not necessarily only be at the exchange. Please see below.
==========================================
CONTENTION
The first more traditional contention comes next, as connections run off to each subscriber's ISP, using bandwidth which their ultimate broadband provider has (or maybe hasn't) invested in sufficiently. You could be squeezed through a 2Mbps gateway, or rushed along a 155Mbps central pipe - only your ISP knows for sure. The next point of contention is the ISP's network, followed by the size of their link to the Internet. An under-capitalised ISP will try to fit too many end users onto its link from the BT exchanges, or through its own network, or its link to the Internet. At busy times, packets will be dropped and performance will be slow. Some ISPs quote contention ratios on their Web sites which relate to contention on their own network which can cause confusion as these ratios are in addition to those quoted by BT for the base service.
=================================================

Hi benjak

I read through this and noticed a few inaccuracies firstly this one
“An under-capitalised ISP will try to fit too many end users onto its link from the BT exchanges”

this is impossible due to how BT supply BB to the ISPs, its the number of centrals (bandwidth) which allows the amount of sessions (dependent on number of centrals) The 2Mbps was all datastream which the ISP renting the Virtual Paths from BT They obviously haven't as many as BT so contention is more likely.
BT have withdrawn all reference to the 50:1 20:1 contentions from there wholesale products and no longer refer to them as such. All ISPs can only fit 'x' amount of customers on a central even if there is free capacity.


BT will soon be launching Central Plus which is supposed to allow more sessions per pipe but this is future plans.
 
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spidesignuk said:
Sorry to spoil the party but heres another UNHAPPY Metro/PLUSnet customer.

As soon as I found out about the acquasition of Metronet by Plusnet I requested my MAC from Metronet. I have left Plusnet for Metronet so was least pleased.

Now when I requested my code I was informed I would pay pro-rata for my time with Metronet. I recieved my final bill and it was for a complete month.

I rang the helpdesk and was told with typical PLusnet customer support gaul, thats the bill so pay it... no pro-rata!!

Anyway I paid the bill, and guess what... this month I'm billed again for a service that I am not a customer of. The advisor had to check with BT to see if my migration was complete. He then credited my account. Luckily I paid by BACs, but I guess if I had a credit card 'on file' I would have been debited.

I'm sorry Plusnet but until you sort out your shambles of a billing section, more negative comments will fall your way from disgruntled customers.

The sour taste you left me with with held me from recommending your service to the 6 customers I visit on a daily basis.

Your loss

Ray

Oh no, I can smell Metronet is another Tiscali ISP. Contract terminated and continue to bill. I'm getting worried now.. It took me 6 months to escape the billing form Tiscali, now what's going to happen when I terminate my contract with Metronet.

Lets hope for the best.........we all soon find out.
 
I hope this doesn't come across as a rant, but I've had some experience here too. I'm another ex-customer of Metronet / PlusNET. Metronet was fantastic - no speed problems, reliable service, easy to get hold of support staff on a geographic number when needed.

I cant comment on sspeed issues because I don't measure it, but a while after Metronet was taken over I lost my internet connection completely. I left it, thinking it was temporary, but still nothing. I couldn't get through on the 0845 number. Eventually I used dial up access to check my account (to see if it was a problem with billing) - and my username had been changed. When I finally managed to get through on the support line I was told it was all BTs fault, and they (PlusNET) knew it was going to happen - but hadn't emailed me to tell me. The emails I had recieved were telling me that the T&Cs had been changed, that I should now accept throttling and traffic shaping for the same price as my prevoius service and if I didn't like it I should request my MAC code.

Anyway, that's what I did, and after some research I've ended up with Zen. So far it's been great, like Metronet used to be. I only hope PlusNET don't take it over.
 
Hi Kits

================================================
I read through this and noticed a few inaccuracies firstly this one
“An under-capitalised ISP will try to fit too many end users onto its link from the BT exchanges”
this is impossible due to how BT supply BB to the ISPs,
=================================================

I am only quoting an extract from Zen Internet's website regarding contention. If you want to check it out then please go to the address below.

I can't think that such a well regarded ISP as Zen Internet would publish inacuracies but if you think otherwise, it might be a good idea to get in touch with them.

http://www.zenbroadband.com/ADSL.aspx?headlineid=55&page=183

Best regards
 
benjak said:
Hi Kits

================================================
I read through this and noticed a few inaccuracies firstly this one
“An under-capitalised ISP will try to fit too many end users onto its link from the BT exchanges”
this is impossible due to how BT supply BB to the ISPs,
=================================================

I am only quoting an extract from Zen Internet's website regarding contention. If you want to check it out then please go to the address below.

I can't think that such a well regarded ISP as Zen Internet would publish inacuracies but if you think otherwise, it might be a good idea to get in touch with them.

http://www.zenbroadband.com/ADSL.aspx?headlineid=55&page=183

Best regards

Perhaps Zen havan't updated since the method of delivering BB was changed from Ports where the ratio 50/1 and 20/1 came from. BB is now billed on bandwidth that is why ISPs are regulating those who download to much as if they don't the ISP loses money paying for the bandwidth used.

taken from BT website
What are contention ratios? How do they affect the speed of my connection?

Answer

The download speeds you get on BT Broadband will vary depending on the volume of traffic being carried at the time you are logged on. If a large number of people are sharing the available bandwidth with you, the contention ratio (or ratio to which the available bandwidth is shared between users) is higher and your connection will be slower. Less traffic means lower contention ratios and faster network speeds.
 
Hi Kits


I have just received an email from Zen Internet and below is an extract from that email. Even after me asking them to clarify the point, they seem to say that "an undercapitlised ISP will try to fit to many users onto their core internet network"

I wonder who is right??
=================================================
Thank you for the email. The essential point is that an undercapitlised ISP will try to fit to many users onto their core internet network, without building up the capacity to handle this. Zen are different as we have built up our internet network to have no contention on it, meaning that you will not have your speeds throttled down at peak times. This provides you with consistent speeds and we have also ensured capacity ahead of demand
=====================================================

Regards
 
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Well maybe that is what Zen think is true, I will see what other info I can find from BT and a few other ISPs.
 
One thing I think people may be mis-reading this as far as I'm aware the core network doesnt include the centrals to BT, if any one wishes for me to verify that I will ask when I'm in work tomorrow.

LeeH
 
Metronet

Hi
I'm a Metronet customer for how long I don't know ive been with metronet 18 months the service was excellent 100% in that time I only had to contact support once but in the last 3 weeks my connection keeps dropping slow speed server un available contacted support they said the line is fine it must be your sockets or your wires if we get BT to test your line we will charge you
this evening its been pretty bad surfing

I was an ex plusnet customer but only for a month when I left
I paid what I owed for the last month migrated before the month was finished so I didn't owe them anything but they tried to charge me for extra month which I didn't owe them they sent me a letter threatening me with debt recovery bailiffs for £15 it would have been easier to pay up but why should I for something I didn't owe them in the end they checked with BT when I migrated I was right didn't owe them anything but couldn't they have done that earlier before threatening me with court action but I got no apologies from them for the way I was treated

sorry for the rant but
Im frustrated that a good isp like metronet is draged down to the levels of Plusnet why should i have to leave because of plusnet doing:( :(
 
Hi everybody

I said that I wouldn't bother to respond anymore to this thread but with speeds like:
today at 10 a.m - 61Kbps
yesterday at 11.23a.m. - 287kbps

on a 2Mb service

I felt compelled to do so. It's a joke.

Before Bpullen you come back with suggestions like check your system, check your line, get the exchange checked etc. they have all been done and found to be ok.

I still consider the fault to be with Plusnet and whole heartedly agree with Pistolpete.

Regards :) :)
 
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benjak said:
today at 10 a.m - 61Kbps
yesterday at 11.23a.m. - 287kbps
Not meaning to sound like a donkey, but isn't 287KB/s an impossible speed to attain on a 2Mb/s line? after all, ~2048/8 = 256KB/s...

Indeed, 61KB/s is scarily low though. Out of curiosity, how many tests were you running at the time? To eliminate the possibility of a duff test, I guess it's always handy to run three tests in a row... but then I'm sure you'll be noticing the speed difference without even having to run the test :o
 
romerogoon said:
Not meaning to sound like a donkey, but isn't 287KB/s an impossible speed to attain on a 2Mb/s line? after all, ~2048/8 = 256KB/s...

Check your quote :) , he did write 287kbps; 287Kbps would be about 36Kilobytes per second, and 61Kbps would be a modest improvement on a dial-up connection.

Although, posting the result from a BT speed test using the speedtest_domain login could confirm if it was the ISP at fault.
 
benjak said:
Before Bpullen you come back with suggestions like check your system, check your line, get the exchange checked etc. they have all been done and found to be ok.

On the contrary, I would much rather you provide a fault reference so I can see what you have already done. The last thing I would want you to have to do is cover the same ground again if it is not necessary.

PM me your username or a ticket number assuming this issue has been reported to our support centre?

Kind Regards,
 
Zen are different as we have built up our internet network to have no contention on it, meaning that you will not have your speeds throttled down at peak times.

ooooooooh dear thats a bit of an exaggeration. :/
All IPStream ISPs rely on their Central Pipes being shared/contended at some ratio or other.
hmmm.. Just off the top of my head Guass has seen several problems in the past, where users have seen slower speeds/high latency.

The problem we have here is that Zen (unlike other ISPs) do not consider the Central pipes to be part of their core network.

But guess where contention at an ISP level takes place? Yes it's on the Centrals.
This has been debated many times in the past, and Zen are shall we say perhaps "bending the truth" a little bit when they say that.

The only reason they manage to get away with it on their website is by using the important word "core".

".....customer demand by guaranteeing no contention on the core network.

This is what Zen consider their core network :- http://www.zen.co.uk/about.aspx?page=43
Not a Central Pipe in sight. :rolleyes:

An equivalent Plusnet "core network" diagram can be seen here.
hmmmm I could just imagine the outcry if PlusNet started trying using the same "marketing technique" that Zen does :(
 
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