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Severe loss to Cloudflare targets from Virgin Media

forid200

Casual Member
Well, you're lucky to be in an Openreach fibre area :D at least the ratios beat Virgins and their tech stack does allow for it to continuously increase... not even sure why DOCSIS is a thing when you feed fibre into someones home, mad.

Like I said before, I am between VDSL at about 29/10, or VMs network. The choice should be far more one-sided than it is.

Back on the topic a little bit though, I have not had loss *yet* today. I do think they're finally getting on top of it. Wonder when it'll be fully functional. And I do wonder if it was pressure applied from Cloudflare that pushed it along.
I'm not in a fibre area, only VDSL available and I'm in London.

And yeah I've not had a single drop either, maybe they've sorted it out. Out of interest did you have any problems with anything that relies on cloud flare? I saw the ping losses because I use those for monitoring, but I didn't notice anything tangible when accessing sites using cloud flare as a CDN.
 

Msh

Casual Member
I'm not in a fibre area, only VDSL available and I'm in London.

And yeah I've not had a single drop either, maybe they've sorted it out. Out of interest did you have any problems with anything that relies on cloud flare? I saw the ping losses because I use those for monitoring, but I didn't notice anything tangible when accessing sites using cloud flare as a CDN.
Ah sorry I misunderstood.

I did, yes. The most noticeable being Docker downloads that relied on Cloudflare.

A vast amount of websites were just "slower" (thank you TCP) but usable.

On the worst nights, I couldn't switch between pages on Discord and IRCCloud.

Pretty much everyone I spoke with had different routes for different endpoints, and I happened to be hitting the shitty one in a majority of cases so it was probably a bit worse for me than others.
 

forid200

Casual Member
I didn't notice anything too drastic but definitely felt sites were slightly slower. Running speed test on cloud flares site yielded slow results.

A lot of cloud flare sites use HTTP3 now which uses UDP maybe that could be a factor.

On a side note, traffic to Netflix seems to be capped to 200meg for me. Using fast.com I can't reach anything above that, probably another weird VM surprise.
 

Msh

Casual Member
A lot of cloud flare sites use HTTP3 now which uses UDP maybe that could be a factor.
I am not really familiar with the retry mechanisms in QUIC, no idea how it reacts, it must retry somehow, I doubt Cloudflare "assume" people will have good connections, especially given dropping frames is just an everyday thing on moving mobile connections.

On a side note, traffic to Netflix seems to be capped to 200meg for me. Using fast.com I can't reach anything above that, probably another weird VM surprise.
Interesting! I noticed the same thing a while back and made nothing of it (but this is definitely since I have been a customer because I've had 550 to there in the past).

Fairly sure they have no right to manipulate traffic in this way though? I may be mistaken.
 

forid200

Casual Member
I am not really familiar with the retry mechanisms in QUIC, no idea how it reacts, it must retry somehow, I doubt Cloudflare "assume" people will have good connections, especially given dropping frames is just an everyday thing on moving mobile connections.


Interesting! I noticed the same thing a while back and made nothing of it (but this is definitely since I have been a customer because I've had 550 to there in the past).

Fairly sure they have no right to manipulate traffic in this way though? I may be mistaken.
It could all be under the guise of "keeping the network stable" under the Covid situation. A lot of ISP's are doing weird stuff in America, not so much in the UK that I'm aware of. I've had a few cases where my clients are using EE Broadband at home, and that's been really funny with SSL VPNs.
For the most part, UK infrastructure has held up decently.

Yeah the Netflix thing now that I think about it has been ongoing since around May time. I've raised this with Virgin but no official response other than 1st liners trying to sell me Wi-Fi boosters and tell me to change Wi-Fi channels when I'm using Ethernet and have their crappy router in modem mode. They even sent me a new router, which of course made no difference.

I might try to acquire a SH4, I'm still on the SH3 and they refused an upgrade previously because I'm on the 350mbps package and 500 isn't available in my area yet. SH4 should work perfectly fine with 350mbps package, guessing they just have limited stock?
 

Msh

Casual Member
It could all be under the guise of "keeping the network stable" under the Covid situation. A lot of ISP's are doing weird stuff in America, not so much in the UK that I'm aware of. I've had a few cases where my clients are using EE Broadband at home, and that's been really funny with SSL VPNs.
For the most part, UK infrastructure has held up decently.

Yeah the Netflix thing now that I think about it has been ongoing since around May time. I've raised this with Virgin but no official response other than 1st liners trying to sell me Wi-Fi boosters and tell me to change Wi-Fi channels when I'm using Ethernet and have their crappy router in modem mode. They even sent me a new router, which of course made no difference.

I might try to acquire a SH4, I'm still on the SH3 and they refused an upgrade previously because I'm on the 350mbps package and 500 isn't available in my area yet. SH4 should work perfectly fine with 350mbps package, guessing they just have limited stock?
Well, at least they didn't send out an engineer during a pandemic for route issues to Cloudflare eh? Clowns.

Hah! I tried to get a SH4 upgrade for my testing of >GbE routing, they said yes and continued through. About 30 minutes later they decided they couldn't do it. Guess you have to wait for Gig1.
 

forid200

Casual Member
Well, at least they didn't send out an engineer during a pandemic for route issues to Cloudflare eh? Clowns.

Hah! I tried to get a SH4 upgrade for my testing of >GbE routing, they said yes and continued through. About 30 minutes later they decided they couldn't do it. Guess you have to wait for Gig1.
Puma chipset is terrible and has many glaring holes. SH4 has a slightly more newer chip albeit still with some of the flaws. Virgin can't even get the basics right - accessing their modem is probably slower than accessing a website sitting on the other side of the planet hosted from a home machine. Logging into the web panel still exposes your password as you type it in.

We can keep going on and on - I guess in your situation you don't have many good alternatives. 29/10 on vDSL is quite slow, you should be able to reach around 70 on the 'higher tier packages'. What's the deal there?

I may just take a speed hit and get something stable over virgin medias shape shifting network.

EDIT: On the back of our mentions of VM 'feeling slower' despite it being faster bandwidth wise, seems others have similar experiences:
cfQfEPj.png

Source: here
 

Msh

Casual Member
I may just take a speed hit and get something stable over virgin medias shape shifting network.
Distance from the cabinet, VDSL doesn't like those extra metres in the slightest, it degrades pretty badly.

Who knows what the hell is happening with G.Fast but the distance issue will probably still be an issue.

I live in a town large enough to be a big undertaking to roll out to (good for VM coming here this year), alternative ISPs aren't touching it. And we're small enough that we're a low priority for OR (at least that's how it seems). Go a couple of miles into the countryside from here and you can get many Gbit capable services.
 

forid200

Casual Member
This has become an issue again since yesterday. For a while it worked fairly stable but now connecting to cloud flare hosts from a virgin connection has become riddled with loss once more.... I'm using Cloudflare as my DNS provider so I'm really feeling it.
 

jamie09

Casual Member
@Msh Hopefully you don't have to wait to long for openreach FTTP

we to have had VM laid to our street several years back but openreach started rolling out fibre to, i have now been conected for around 5 months now and it has been very solid service without any issues.


I have never had VM installed to my house to be fair always stuck around with BT.. but both are very great services when they don't have their issues.
 

forid200

Casual Member
@Msh Hopefully you don't have to wait to long for openreach FTTP

we to have had VM laid to our street several years back but openreach started rolling out fibre to, i have now been conected for around 5 months now and it has been very solid service without any issues.


I have never had VM installed to my house to be fair always stuck around with BT.. but both are very great services when they don't have their issues.
Glad to hear it!

I wouldn't compare Virgin to BT though, Virgin is full of funny business. Crappy flawed modem, weird core network, peering issues, loss to several key places. That being said, looks like community fibre are coming to my area. As soon as something better is available I'm saying goodbye to VM.

Virgin media has become too much faff, only thing it really has going for it is bandwidth and availability. Reliability and quality have dropped IMHO, I've even had software updates in the middle of the day on multiple occasions. Just an overall PITA.
 

jamie09

Casual Member
Intrestingly enough @forid200 i have had a few VM sales people at my door and to others who are not signed up to them, tbh i did find them to be rather pushy and was asking questions like what is your current isp and how long is your contract with them.

I did explain i was with FTTP and we were happy with our current speeds, but sales guy told me we are faster and more reliable.

I doubt bt 1gb service to VM 1gb service will compare that much tbh
but openreach offering higher upload was good enough excuse to drive the sales guy away lol

yeah i have a few in my family who are with VM and have experienced a few issues with outages of late.
 

forid200

Casual Member
Intrestingly enough @forid200 i have had a few VM sales people at my door and to others who are not signed up to them, tbh i did find them to be rather pushy and was asking questions like what is your current isp and how long is your contract with them.

I did explain i was with FTTP and we were happy with our current speeds, but sales guy told me we are faster and more reliable.

I doubt bt 1gb service to VM 1gb service will compare that much tbh
but openreach offering higher upload was good enough excuse to drive the sales guy away lol

yeah i have a few in my family who are with VM and have experienced a few issues with outages of late.
@Msh has setup some stats logging which myself and a few others have been contributing to. It's pretty cool because we can see roughly when we all may have issues to certain places, especially as we're located in different locations around the country. Allows us to rule out if its a local issue or a wider VM issue instantly.

And yeah Virgin media got used to being "the fastest" but hopefully with the government's help, other providers can catch up.
 

Msh

Casual Member
@Msh Hopefully you don't have to wait to long for openreach FTTP
Looks like Cityfibre is very much happening in my town so I have eyes on that.

This issue is particularly bad again, absolutely impossible to get VM to take this seriously. I have provided quite a fair amount of data to prove it's not limited to my connection and their response was to send an engineer out. This lead nowhere, no follow up, no formal acknowledgement or fault reported. I'm stuck.
 
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