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Sky's new (black) routers

Mel

ULTIMATE Member
I saw this mentioned elsewhere and thought it worth posting about it here in case anyone is tempted to try to flash a new black sky router with dg834gt firmware, as it will probably be bricked :eek:

The new (black) Sky Netgear DG934G (DG934G-1SKUKS) is apparently built around the TI AR7 chipset, and quite possibly based on the old dg834g version 3 (the old sky dg834gt router used the broadcom chipset). Apparently they are also sourcing routers from sagem.
 

Mel

ULTIMATE Member
I expect they've overlooked at least one way of obtaining the password and username from the dg834gV3, but it wouldn't be a good idea for anyone to flash the router while still a customer anyway, as they'd be stuffed if they needed Sky's support to sort a fault.
 

NewsreadeR

Regular Member
I expect they've overlooked at least one way of obtaining the password and username from the dg834gV3

Do tell, from what I have been lead to believe impossible. Flashing was not categorically ruled out though.
 

Mel

ULTIMATE Member
Well it is not that practicable so I guess it won't hurt to mention it:D. The dg834g has a feature that allows you to capture the authentication traffic, the snag being you wouldn't get the password itself, but a non-reversible (CHAP) hash (MD5 hash of challenge + actual password I think) so you'd still need brute force cracking software and a powerful PC - I've not tried to calculate how long that would take:)

I'm not sure it would be wise to use a non-sky router if they are that keen to hide the password! Shame really as I'm sure a lot of people would rather use their own routers and just keep the Sky ones in case they need to contact support, especially if they already own far superior models.
 

NewsreadeR

Regular Member
ahh

This has already been mentioned with Chap.

afaik chap only ever sends user names and plain texts and I am not even sure if debugging chap messages will show you the decrypted passwords. So that alone would rule the DSLAM method out?

If it was really that easy to get the password details, people would be buying cheap Cisco's off Ebay with ADSL WICS and configuring them as COE (central office equipment i.e. DSLAM) equipment.

Basic radius debugs on the DSLAM will show the full router user name but NOT the password afaik.

So that pretty much rules that out. The same for PAP I would have thought as well.

Yes it is a shame, but having used the new router so far so good and I have to say flawless. Even the UPnP which never worked before works. So hopefully new customers who receive the black one, will have no requirement for the use of their own router.
 

Mel

ULTIMATE Member
That approach is similar, but seems to involve buying your own dslam, which is not necessary :)

Don't forget some users will have routers that sync at a higher rate and also have faster wireless eg pre N.

Also if the new router has internal antenna it won't be possible to use a better/ directional antenna to extend the range so you may need to have a second device to provide hi speed wireless - untidy and more power consumption too.
 

NewsreadeR

Regular Member
Fair comments, however I have a sneaky suspicion that people in that scenario would be the minority.

Most users who are more technical would complain about this, Joe Bloggs the average internet user, would probably be satisfied as it is. Simple, easy, ergonomically pleasing and it just works.

Obviously a move by Sky for the majority and an attempt to have as simple an install / experience as possible.

I for one am fairly technical, but in my environment at home it does everything I need. For my mother in law, exactly the same and so on.

I would also bet that the wireless is better on the new one anyway, in the manual it quite clearly states up to 100 metres for reception, depending on course of certain factors. I know my reception is certainly better.

This does not negate the fact that those with white routers have access to their username and passwords and so could do with theirs what you are saying. Well up to the new FW update anyway, and afaik the new FW on the V1 is reversible, how ever every time it syncs with the exchange, would look for a newer version and then re update it.
 

Mel

ULTIMATE Member
Obviously a move by Sky for the majority and an attempt to have as simple an install / experience as possible.

I'm all in favour of Sky locking down the default settings, it must save their support and their customers from wasting a lot of time going through settings.

I've experienced that myself many times with AOL, when I was trying to get them to fix a problem (SSB I'd guess) their end which prevented authentication, had the password username etc been fixed I could have plugged in their router and skipped the router configuration 101 class which was repeated with each tier of support every time I rang.:crap:

It would have been better if they'd made telnet access available so the techies could extract their passwords or run scripts on their router if they wished.

Hmm, as they apparently use the router's MAC code for the username, I wonder if they have plans to switch to IPOA on their DSLAMs, (which wouldn't require a password :) ).

I believe the firmware on the Sky gt attempts to update monthly, it would be trivial to prevent it, but also pointless as you might as well reflash it with the latest standard firmware. I believe I've read the standard GT router uses a far superior (newer) version of the adsl modem software and as the Sky update is likely to include this, it should significantly improve the router.
 
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