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Smart meters in the North not working properly due to connectivity

Lucian

ULTIMATE Member
Possibly a news piece @Mark.J


It looks like the Arqiva-backed 800MHz network connectivity is failing people in the North who are using it to connect their smart meters.
(In the rest of UK we're using mobile data.)

Wonder why nobody thought to fit SMA sockets to these meters so a proper high-gain antenna could be connected.
 
Congrats to the BBC for recognising a well-known problem with all smart meters, where placement means you can't always get the wireless signal out (even with an extra antenna). This does impact those that use mobile connectivity too, but it's less common.
 
Just to add, they use a 400MHz signal in the north via Long Range Radio (LRR).
 
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Mine is still working fine and dandy, and it's now an antique I think. 😊
 
Just to add, they use a 400MHz signal in the north via Long Range Radio (LRR).
That's what I thought, but apparently they only use that for the water meters, for electricity they use 800MHz.. I'm struggling to find the source for that again.
 
This site mentions 423 Mhz for North, slightly different 454 Mhz near Flylingdales radar station.

Smart meters work great for me in East Yorkshire.

 
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That's what I thought, but apparently they only use that for the water meters, for electricity they use 800MHz.. I'm struggling to find the source for that again.
No it is 420Mhz & 450Mhz. The 800Mhz is only used to provide better connectivity between gas & electricity meters which are not close enough to each other for the 2.4Ghz ZigBee to work properly
 
Congrats to the BBC for recognising a well-known problem with all smart meters, where placement means you can't always get the wireless signal out (even with an extra antenna). This does impact those that use mobile connectivity too, but it's less common.
Why can't they just pick the best technology for the area. Installed a cellular network meter where the long range signal is failing.
 
Why can't they just pick the best technology for the area. Installed a cellular network meter where the long range signal is failing.
I think it's a volume contract issue, where it's easier if you have a defined coverage agreement for specific areas, rather than splitting technology and thus having less of an idea about how many premises will receive X solution.
 
My comms hub uses frequency range:

Transmit: 412-414 and 422-424 MHz
Receive: 422-424 MHz

The indoor unit uses: 2.405 – 2.480GHz
 
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Ours is still a dumb meter.
They've tried to force us into having one 4 times now but it's not happening until the meters themselves are more reliable.
 
Ours is still a dumb meter.
They've tried to force us into having one 4 times now but it's not happening until the meters themselves are more reliable.
I also postponed it as much as I could waiting for the tech to mature.. then I had to move house and the new one already had one fitted. /shrug

..But it's been ok, no head aches so far. We're in London so we're using O2's blistering mobile network (to be taken over by Vodafone, I hear). Don't think they'd give it to anyone not with a chunky low-band.
 
but it's not happening until the meters themselves are more reliable.
Totally depends on where you are obviously, mine's been solid (but I wanted one) and I get the reporting from the API at Octopus which is helpful, especially with Dynamic Charging on the EV charger. (allows me to keep dynamic charging on, but disable the house solar batteries from discharging whilst that's running so i'm not charging the car from the house but the grid). :)
 
Mine (near Glasgow) has been fine, only issue has been the gas meter not talking to electric meter. That resolved itself after a short power cut, I think a manual reboot mechanism would be handy
 
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I think smart meters are very progressive and a clear improvement over legacy meters when they work properly, also even if they stop communicating they can still be read manually, so it will still be a newer meter than an old meter that may no longer even be in its certified life.

However with all that said, I think the way these issues have been dealt with isnt acceptable, one problem that Martin Lewis is trying to get the government to act on is that there is targets for installations, but no targets for ensuring existing meters work properly. The resources for home visits are stretched way past what they capable off, so there is a big problem in getting these fixed, and some people cant even get one installed if they want one due to the lack of resources.

I think my smart meter has been great, not just for the convenience, the live usage mechanism, but also the smart tariffs I have access to, but Im not a "im alright jack" person, they need to fix the issues that are out there.

It is possible there is no cheap solution, if its a realisation that the signal system used in the north isnt up to the job, then they wont be happy with the idea of replacing the communicator modules en masse to a mobile network system (apparently the meters are modular). But again, engineer resources, thats a huge task. But they need to do something, just sitting there saying well that sucks isnt going to fix anything.

--

An added note I expect it doesnt really affect anyone here, but there is a bunch of people who think the in home display is the meter, so if that stops working they think their meter has packed up, the meter will still be metering the energy use. But it would be either an IHD pairing problem or the meter has lost communications.
I have an Octopus mini something Octopus made, this is far superior to the IHD and in my opinion should have been the standard, it has no screens, so no expense wasted on that, instead it communicates with the Octopus app, so you can see everything on your phone instead of needing to walk to where ever the IHD or meter is.
 
There are a couple of issues with the smart meters for me, one is more of a threat than reality.

First is that supplier can remotely switch off supply without the need to gain physical access. Part of the process to switch off at the moment requires at least to go through the motions of the risk of harm or vulnerability of the customer, with a remote switch off a physical visit is not required and I am not sure what safeguarding process is in place. Whilst energy needs to be paid for, some consumers may need help.

Secondly, the technology in smart meters also permits the meter to switch from metering real power to apparent power. It's not really a smart meter thing, but because the meter is smart the metering the way it's measuring power consumption can also be changed remotely.

Real power is what meters traditionally meter, it's the amount of energy converted into useful work. Back in the day when loads were purely resistive like heaters and filament light bulbs most loads were in phase with the supply, the main exception might have been motors.

Apparent power takes account of whether the load demanded is in phase with the supply. With most loads now being electronic the phase of these loads usually lags the supply, and for some cheaper power supplies the lag can be significant where if you to be billed on apparent power you might be paying more than 50% more.

This is more of a theoretical risk, as we're all supposed to be metered on real power, but with the option being available to do it otherwise in modern meters you could imagine mistakes could happen....
 
It is not just the North, no matter what the Bloated broadcasting Corporation has to say, may people in the south and midlands have the same problems.

Can we just agree that the government roll out of smart meters have been a disaster and cost us the public far too much and have been going on for far too long?
 
It does smell of a typical designed by a committee of compromise issue where the deployed solution just meets the minimum criteria that was specified by another committee of compromise but excels at nothing. Add to the mess that some installers manage to leave the installation more dangerous than when they arrived, and there is no KPI for working verses installed smart meters and the whole thing is a mess.

And because I'm allowed to I continue to refuse the smart meter, although I am amazed that they haven't tried the "your 1967 vintage meter is expired" trick yet. Last time a supplier got a bit pushy about a new meter I just swapped supply to another company and the nagging went away.
 
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