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Speed Issues

dlo

Casual Member
Has anyone else got speed issues with freedom2surf
For the last six month mine has been up ad down.
Currently it's continually down - 135k !!!
Freedom say it's BT that puts it down for some reason
BT says it's nothing to do with them
They say to ask Freedom to contact BT Wholesale
I have done everything that has been asked and am GETTING NOWHERE
The way things are I couldn't recommend Freedom2surf to anyone
Anyone any ideas ?
 

ManOfMeans

ULTIMATE Member
Post the stats from your router I would look more at a intermittent problem than a speed issue
 

dlo

Casual Member
Not sure what stats you want.
I have run test before 6 a.m. right through to after 11 p.m. with little variance.
I have been using http://speedtester.bt.com/ in the main to do speed tests because that's what Freedom2Surf (F2S) suggested. It broadly agrees with www.kbps.co.uk and www.pcpitstop.com/internet/bw.asp
Results below :-
In june it said DSL connection rate:4128 kbps (downstream) 832 kbps (upstream) IP profile is 135 kbps Actual throughput achieved 119 kbps i.e.

12/06 4128 DS 832 US Prof 135 Act 119
12/06 3168 832 135 113 (later same day)
13/06 3168 832 135 113
13/06 4128 832 135 112 (later same day)
15/06 3104 832 135 108
16/06 4064 832 135 84
22/06 608 832 500 450
went back to reasonable speed
18/09 3968 832 2500 1643
until
17/10 4000 832 135 119
20/10 3104 832 135 148
21/10 3040 832 135 116

I have used different filters connected directly to the test socket (i.e. face plate removed from BT socket) and ONLY connected my router. I have tried a different non wireless router using a cable to my laptop. I have used different computers. I have rebooted computers and routers. I have left router off over night. I have left it on.
What else can I try?
Todays response from F2S is
Thank you for contacting the freedom2surf Technical Support Team.

The reason your IP profile is 135k is because your sync rate is only 160K. The sync rate is based upon your own wiring and equipment and also worked out on line length and quality. The maximum sync rate you can expect is around 512K, all line tests have passed so we need you to check all your wiring on your property. Please see my list below and make sure you concentrate on point 4 - to get your IP profile up you need get your sync rate up, this is going to be down to your own equipment / wiring on your property

1) Test with all other telephony equipment (telephones, fax, sky digital, house alarm system, etc.) disconnected around the house so that no other equipment is sharing the phone line with the ADSL modem or router.

2) If that is still intermittent or not connecting try the same configuration but swap the microfilter.

3) If still intermittent then try the above configuration but with your ADSL equipment connected directly to the master telephone socket in the house (no extension cables or secondary phone sockets).
You may also be able to try the connection from the test socket found behind the faceplate of the master socket as shown in this example:

http://www.dslzoneuk.net/socket.php?type=html

4) Try testing the connection using an alternate modem or router connected to the line.

5) Lighting and Heating systems can cause line drop outs and bad connection rates as they transmit elecro static interference.
Any other devices connected to the line can cause interference if not filtered correctly such as alarm systems.

6) Remove any phone extension leads!!

If you continue to get an intermittent connection with configuration 4, please get back to us and we will get BT to investigate the line for you.
It may also be advisable to get BT telephony to test your phoneline to ensure no issues with the copper line itself.

Please note, should a BT engineer visit the premises to investigate the fault and the cause is found to be with any of your own equipment or internal wiring, BT may raise a false call-out charge to you.
 

Mark.J

Administrator
Staff member
ISPreview Team
When you login to your router there will be somewhere that reports the statistics for your connection, specifically things like line attenuation, noise margin, sync speed and so forth; they're usually all in the same place, just have a poke around.

Also please stick your phone number (no spaces and ignore the postcode field) in here and run a check on your line, then tell us what the estimated speed result was for BT ADSLMAX on your line:

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/checker/

Have you tried connecting to the test socket behind the faceplate of the BT box where you plug the phone line in? Usually this just involves removing the two screws on the front and plugging the microfilter/splitter in behind. Do that for a week or two and see if your line performance improves.

One other thing, if your router is dropping the connection a lot or your restart it too often then your broadband performance can drop as to the ISP it will look like your line may be unable to handle a higher speed. Keep an eye on your router log to see if anything like that (disconnection) is happening.

We also have an ADSL Connection Tips article with more things to try:
http://www.ispreview.co.uk/articles/adsltips
 

dlo

Casual Member
N.B. Speedchecker is at - http://www.ispreview.co.uk/speed/

D-Link router - Statistics page reads
DSL Status
Connection Status Connected
Upstream Rate (Kbps) 832
Downstream Rate (Kbps) 2880
US Margin 13
DS Margin 15
Modulation MMODE
LOS Errors 0
DS Line Attenuation 35
US Line Attenuation 37
Path Mode Interleaved

The results from yesterday were ALL via the TEST SOCKET - i.e. faceplate removed.

Todays results from the ISP speedchecker -
Detailed Results
Date 23/10/09 10:15:25
Download speed 128.97 Kbps (0.13 Mbps)
Upload speed 649.03 Kbps (0.63 Mbps)
Server Port 8095 (tcp)


I have been re-booting the router because Freedom2surf advised me to 'to make the BT system look at it and repair it' somehow

Thanks
 

Mark.J

Administrator
Staff member
ISPreview Team
That's very interesting, your stats are pretty good and if anything you should be able to get an even higher profile from your line than 2880 Kbps (2.8Mbps). A downstream attenuation of 35, with those stats, should really support up to 6-7Mbps with ADSLMAX and maybe 11Mbps with ADSL2+.

I would love to know what the ADSLMAX result gave you from the checker I posted as that would give us an idea of what your line is estimate to do by BT. For now it does look like a fault at the ISP or BT, certainly your speeds are at an unacceptable level and should be classed as a fault.

Still F2S is based off Tiscali's network and they're not the best ISP to have for solving difficult technical issues as they don't really care much about supporting individual users. Also rebooting your router lots of times will only depress the speeds even further, I can see why they might suggest that but IMO it is not good advice. Heck I would move ISP immediately if mine suggested doing that as their only solution.
 

ManOfMeans

ULTIMATE Member
There is a deffo copper line port or router issue as the upstream attenuation is higher than the downstream and with the BRAS at 135 it tells me there is a intermittent fault on the line as well.

If F2S wont investigate it then move ISP's I am 100% sure theres a fault on there and your ISP are not giving you the right advice to get it resolved.

Also in my experiance I have seen lines with a slightly higher attenuation get the full 8meg.
 

dlo

Casual Member
http://www.ispreview.co.uk/checker/

results - didn't work before because I put in tel. no. AND post code

BT Land-Line Broadband Service Availability (NOTE: 1000Kbps = 1Mbps)
YES - Standard ADSL @ up to 2Mbps (BT Wholesale IPStream / Datastream)
Estimated Best Speed (Kbps): 2048
LineCode: GGEC

YES - ADSL MAX @ up to 8Mbps (BT Wholesale IPStream / Datastream MAX)
Estimated Best Speed (Kbps): 4000
LineCode: GEGEGEC

NO - ADSL2+ @ up to 24Mbps (BT Wholesale Broadband Connect / 21CN)
Estimated Best Speed (Kbps):
(Estimated speed only shows for supporting exchanges or those with an activation date)

NO - SDSL @ up to 2Mbps (BT Wholesale IPStream / Datastream Symmetric)
Estimated Best Speed (Kbps): 0
LineCode:
 

dlo

Casual Member
P.S.
everything else was NO
It's a rural location so other options not available
 

dlo

Casual Member
I've always reckoned it's a copper wire fault.
I have had several in the past - but it seems almost impossible to get them to get it checked by an engineer
 

Mark.J

Administrator
Staff member
ISPreview Team
Hmm 4Mbps on ADSLMAX for your line, seems very conservative. Still, regardless of that, it's clear you should be able to get a lot more than even your sync speed claims. You didn't mention there had been copper wire faults in the past so it's now a fairly good bet for that being the case here too.

Now I fear getting this resolved will come down to the competence of your ISP in its desire to chase and resolve the problem on your behalf, which in any Tiscali based organisation is going to be an uphill struggle. The long rout is to follow an official complaints process (http://www.ispreview.co.uk/new/complain/complain.shtml) but if I were you I'd switch to a higher quality ISP to get it resolved.

Do keep in mind though that it might still take time to be resolved, unless you’re willing to pay extra for a top-class ISP like Zen to help get it resolved faster.
 

dlo

Casual Member
How do you find out which ISP use which network?
You say that F2S is Tiscali based - what are the options?
Thanks for the help
 

dlo

Casual Member
what has just happened?
system log reads
Sep 8 12:00:06> Valid Configuration Tree
Sep 8 12:00:11> Firewall NAT service started
Sep 8 12:00:11> Bridge Created: br0
Jan 1 01:01:00> Bridge Interface Added: eth0
Jan 1 01:01:03> DSL Carrier is up
Jan 1 01:01:03> pppd 2.4.1 started by root, uid 0
Jan 1 01:01:07> Connect: ppp0 {--}
Jan 1 01:01:07> Bridge Interface Added: tiwlan0
Jan 1 01:01:11> WAN IP address 195.137.0.124
Jan 1 01:01:11> PPPoA Connect with IP Address 195.137.0.124
Jan 1 01:01:11> WAN gateway 212.74.102.15
Jan 1 01:01:11> PPPoA Connection Successfully Established
Jan 1 01:01:11> PPPoA Connect with Gateway IP Address: 212.74.102.15
Jan 1 01:01:11> primary DNS address 212.139.132.44
Jan 1 01:01:11> secondary DNS address 212.139.132.43
I was on my usual slow (135 ish k) speed then I was getting no internet connection at all. I didn't want to re-start my router because F2S told me not to. In the last email they said "The profile for your line is calculated from your sync speed, if the sync speed goes down then the automated BT system monitoring your line will reduce the line profile. For the line profile to be increased again, that automated system needs to see a consistent sync speed for a 72 hours period. In your case, I can see your sync speed going up and down and reaching very low values (160 kbps) this has given you a very low line rate" and "Right now your sync speed is 3552 kbps and if you are able to maintain that sync speed for the 72 hours period then the line rate will increase. Until this happens, any speed test that you run will give you the results that you are reporting. Please make sure that you do not power down your router during this period and monitor for the next 72 hours"
In looking around nothing was doing anything so I decided to re-start the router from the access page (192.168.1.1)
Then all of a sudden it restarted and I had some speed back. The date within the router was re-set to the date shown.
The DSL Status Page now read
DSL Status
Connection Status Connected
Upstream Rate (Kbps) 832
Downstream Rate (Kbps) 3232
US Margin 13
DS Margin 7
Modulation MMODE
LOS Errors 0
DS Line Attenuation 35
US Line Attenuation 37
Path Mode Interleaved
http://www.ispreview.co.uk/checker/ shows speed results as
YES - Standard ADSL @ up to 2Mbps (BT Wholesale IPStream / Datastream)
Estimated Best Speed (Kbps): 2048
LineCode: GGEC

YES - ADSL MAX @ up to 8Mbps (BT Wholesale IPStream / Datastream MAX)
Estimated Best Speed (Kbps): 4000
LineCode: GEGEGEC

and speed at
http://www.ispreview.co.uk/speed/
Date 25/10/09 16:59:41
Download speed 2607.65 Kbps (2.55 Mbps)
Upload speed 690.12 Kbps (0.67 Mbps)
Server Port 8095 (tcp)
 

LeeH

ISP Rep
The BRAS profile has changed and the 72 hours doesnt apply any more its all run off a logic table which looks at present sync speed compared to what the BRAS profile is and will change quicker depending on the different between the 2.
 

dlo

Casual Member
When reporting back to F2S that my speed was about back to normal and asking what could have been the problem over the last month or so, they said
"There were a lot of errors on the line recently which is what caused the issue. The errors were on the upstream side of the line rather than the downstream side of the line. We can not tell what caused the errors on the line however upstream errors can be caused by equipment at your end. We will not be able to find out for sure one way or the other what caused it.

I can see that your profile has increased and looks better now. I would suggest keeping an eye on it and let us know if the problem returns. If your connection stays above 3mb I would expect another increase in speed in about 3 days."
 

dlo

Casual Member
So - on the 15th November, between 11 a.m. and 5 p.m. it dropped back down to 150 kbps at best.
Contacted Freedom2Surf straight away and am still awaiting a response.
I presume someone is in the office somewhere !!??
 

Mark.J

Administrator
Staff member
ISPreview Team
Maybe time for a new ISP dlo, most Tiscali owned providers have a pretty poor history when it comes to customer support and performance.
 

dlo

Casual Member
Thanks Mark
My 12 month contract doesn't end till Feb 2010 - but at this rate I would be glad to pay them off and see the back of them.
But how do I find out who owns which ISP ?
The Post Office do a good deal - £24.95 for Unlimited broadband, Line Rental and some inclusive calls.
http://www.postoffice.co.uk/portal/po/content2?catId=68600711&mediaId=58000695

But presumably they are only a 'retailer'. Who do they buy from ?

I am out in the sticks a bit so can't get any of the deals where operators have their own systems such as TalkTalk etc.
 

Mark.J

Administrator
Staff member
ISPreview Team
The PostOffice, I believe, bases its connection off BT's Managed Wholesale broadband product. But we have heard some mixed reactions about their service. You might like to check out IDNet's phone and broadband bundles too, heck even PlusNet might be better than Tiscali but I keep hearing mixed things about them too.
 

dlo

Casual Member
Contract period end date arrived in February.
Was still getting periods of 0.15Mb download speed and periods of about 1.8Mb.
Eventually nothing was done - time just passed by and it corrected itself until the next time.
Took the contract end date as the opportunity to change and went from paying BT £11 per month line rental and F2S £17 to paying Post Office £25 all in.
So I am paying less and (at the moment) getting more and a better service.
Speeds have settled to about the 2Mb level.
Only time will tell if this s maintained.
 
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