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Strange internet woes

Greetings all,

Last year I had a real puzzling problem, which thanks to the help of this forum, was identified as a high resistance fault. It didn't stop BT taking 6 months, coupled with tons of excuses, to switch us onto a new line "in the road", and then only after I'd written to the Home Office.

However, all has been pretty fine until the last month or so. Firstly, I have to say that I'm not exactly sure when this problem started, as I'm disabled with spinal complications, I sometimes spend long periods in bed, or at least "out of it", so this may have started sooner.

The problem is this:
Assuming I power up my router, the connection will run it's customary 4-6mbps. But, after a period of usually between 50 minutes and 75 minutes, it drops instantly to around 50-80kbps.

My first thought was that the router was at fault, so I went through the process of changing and trying everything that I could. I tried two old BTVoyager modems (105 and 200), a Netgear wireless affair, and as my usual modem had just died, I've bought a Zoom X6 within the last week. All give the same results.

I then tried testing on my Compaq Sg3100 desktop (Vista), Dell 1520 laptop (Vista), my wife's Sony Vaio netbook (XP), and my daughter's Samsung r519 (Win7) - wireless and hard-wired. Same thing again.

I tried changing the filter 6 times (I've got a dozen or so of the things knocking around). No difference. Then I changed the LAN cable several times, and the phone cable (router to wall socket) several times too. No difference. Took the faceplate at the wall off, put it back on. No difference. Disconnected the telephone. No difference. The only thing that brings the internet back up to speed is to reboot the modem or router in question.

I don't use any extension cables, and I just have one phone, one filter, and the short, standard bundled length of cables used.

My ISP, Fast, have given their customary brilliant service, guiding me through and double-checking everything I've done.

But that's it - we're out of ideas. It now lies in the hands of BT - initial testing shows no problems whatsoever at Fast's end and at BT's end, yet there clearly IS a problem. Bearing in mind my previous experiences with BT (not just last year's example), I have zero faith in them, and want to avoid another battle with them.

Answers of course, are greatly appreciated - the internet is everything to me. I have to do internet shopping, so I'm fearful that a total loss again would cause me no end of problems.

By the way, here's a typical BT Speedtest report:


When router has been freshly rebooted:
Download Speed 4532 kbps
Max achievable speed 7150 kbps
Download speed achieved during test 4532 kbps
For your connection, acceptable range of speeds is 600-7150 kbps
Your DSL connection rate is 6496 kbps (Down)
Your DSL connection rate is 448 kbps (Up)
IP Profile for your line is 5000 kbps

Some router stats:
Transmit Power 11.9dB
SNR margin 14.5dB (Down) 22dB (Up)
Line attenuation 37.5dB (Down) 21dB (Up)


When router has been on for around an hour, and problem arises:
Download Speed 510 kbps
Max achievable speed 7150 kbps
Download speed achieved during test was 510 kbps
For your connection, acceptable range of speeds is 600-7150 kbps
Your DSL connection rate is 6496 kbps (Down)
Your DSL connection rate is 448 kbps (Up)
IP Profile for your line is 5000 kbps
The test was not conclusive and further testing is required.

Router stats are the same as above.
 
If you leave your router powered up and connected for a few days, what happens?? Does the IP Profile or DSL connection rate come down to match the actual download speed??

Mark will come on later and ask you to post your router stats, so I will ask first!!

By the way, it is advisable to leave your router powered up and connected all the time, switching it on and off can confuse the equipment used to calculate your IP Profile.

I wonder if it is a faulty DSLAM at the exchange?? My sister had this a few years ago and it literally took 2 years to get anyone to admit it might be faulty, let alone change it.
 
Thanks for the prompt reply - greatly appreciated :)

First, if I leave the router powered up for a few days, nothing changes. The speed's still slow, and the profile stays at the 5000kbps specified.

I realise also that switching the router on and off can confuse things and ruin my IP profile - was well aware of that last year! However, there's just no other way than going into the router's control panel and rebooting it to get the speed back up.

I accept the comment about the faulty DSLAM at exchange - we've been at our present house for 12 years, and we connected to broadband in 2002. Since then, we've had problems which have resulted in equipment being changed at BT's end on an almost yearly basis, so it would surprise me not in the least.

And 2 years? Not surprised there either - from last year's experience, BT "only" took a few weeks to work out where the problem lay, but of course, they tried to do everything to avoid going underground to get at it, purely because it cost them too much - they admitted this. That's why I got the Home Office involved. As soon as I did, the matter was fixed within 3 days.

But anyway, thanks for the advice, it does help!
 
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It may be worthwhile using your Netgear router and downloading routerstats from HERE
You can monitor your SNR & sync speed for a couple of days to see if your SNR is going too low and causing your router to resync.
I had a similar problem (LINK)to yours together with the legendary BT fob off's & my SNR was dropping to zero then router would resync anywhere between 250/8128kbps
 
Darn ...

I would happily do that with the Netgear router stats ... except that's the router that died :(

However, I don't believe the SNR has dropped at all. As it's a continuous problem, and I know when it's going to happen, it's been easy to keep an eye on, and I've noticed the only change (apart from the speed change) is that FEC errors go up, but still well within acceptable limits (e.g. around 40,000 - 50,000 in 6 hours).

And on reading your problem, that looks more like the problem I had last year - with very similar treatment too! I feel sorry for your suffering, as I can easily imagine what it must have been like.

But nice thoughts, though, and I thank you for it.

The only thing I will keep in reserve as future course of action is the going back to the Home Office (via my MP of course, who luckily, I know pretty well). Although I can only use my own experience as an example, that does seem to get things moving.
 
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Your profile speed seems about right but the upstream SNR Margin is too high and suggests a problem with the local phone wiring or interference, potentially within your home. The fluctating speeds with steady stats though could suggest an issue at the exchange, it's very difficult to pin down the causes.

I'm guessing you're already plugged into the master BT socket and have a microfilter (splitter) installed on every phone extension already? Also do you hear noise on the phone line when you use it? Is the phone extension you plug into marked as BT Openreach or have you tried installing a BT Broadband Accelerator (iPlate) to remove interference problems?
 
Your profile speed seems about right but the upstream SNR Margin is too high and suggests a problem with the local phone wiring or interference

The OP's upstream noise margin looks fine to me - It is probably that high because his upstream sync rate is limited to 448 kbps on the package he's subscribed, while his line is good enough to handle a fair bit more.

As the OP's sync rates and IP profile remain the same when his throughput is being restricted, it seems to me that it's most likely either a problem with the ISP (eg traffic management) or at BT's end and the OP's line is probably fine.
 
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Fair point, didn't spot that.
 
Thanks once again for the great responses - it makes me feel more confident that the problem's not my end.

To Mark - I don't use any extensions whatsoever. Just one phone, with which I've tried 6 microfilters, including one of those Openreach badged master sockets with the filter built in. Nothing there made any difference.

The voice line (I've done a couple of quiet line tests) is as clear as could possibly be. Since they changed the underground cabling last year we've had a very clear line, in total contrast to how it was in the past.

I'm always careful to put my equipment away from strong magnetic and other electrical sources, but just to make sure, I'll do some fiddling later today and move the equipment around to see what happens - I won't hold my breath, but I've got to make sure, of course.

To Mel - Just for additional information, my upstream has been that speed for as long as I can remember (or at least with the two previous ISPs I had). That's not a complaint, just a statement - the upstream deals with all that I require of it (mostly online gaming).

In my limited experience with internet service, one of my suspicions was also that my ISP was throttling me in some way. It seemed likely to me, as the pattern is regular. However, I trust Fast, and I'd be mightily shocked if this were the case.

There's one more small piece of info, that may or may not have relevance. I use the Steam gaming service a lot. As their download page has a speed monitor on it (which refreshes approx. every second), I've been watching how things go. After a modem reboot, when the speed's fine, it shows my max download speed through their servers as around 600+kbps, and it stays solidly at that speed with only rare fluctuations.

But if I'm downloading from Steam when the speed problem IS apparent, it displays the max download speed as around 60-70 kbps, but the actual speed fluctuates every second between approx 40 - 65kbps.

As I said, might indicate nothing unusual at all, but I thought I'd mention it.
 
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one thing that might be of interest is finding out if this issue happens at specific times, l do recommend an IPlate if its a standard BT socket as l use one and have at least a meg more speed than everyone else around my locale, and while by the sounds of it this suggestion maybe redundant l will mention it none the less..

is your phone cordless? and how close is it placed to the modem/router? you see placing it too close to the modem/router can cause speed issues, originally l had mine next to each other and while l had a nice 2Meg to begin with after a day or two l dropped to 512 connection, tbh l should have been more sensible as l knew they could interfere with each other but none the less it proves that even phones cause issues especially when cordless, in that respect tho my IP profile never dropped just what l synced at from what l saw at least.
 
I don't wish to sound rude, but I've highlighted when it happens in my previous posts.

I don't get a lot of sleep, and when I do they're irregular times, so whilst I've been awake, I've been monitoring it, and it's the same every hour of the day, every day. (It's currently 3am at the moment I type this, and still no difference).

Also, I have iterated that I keep the phone and modem as far away from strong magnetic and other electrical sources. Needless to say, they're far apart from one another.

Oh, I should have mentioned though that I DON'T use a cordless phone - I hate the damned things, they're so inefficient and jeopardise the speed anyway.
 
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The drops every hour sound like something on the router is set to drop the internet every hour, can you check you have the router to stay connected.

Which mode/router are you using then maybe someone can say if this has any settings that need altering to keep the line live all the time.
 
@Kits, He says he has tried several different routers and modems without effect.
I doubt if they are all set to d/s every hour.

The only other thing I can think of is microfractures in the line to the house; does it pass close to any trees, street lights or other possible power sources???

I had lots of trouble with my connection and no one could figure it out; finally Vispa got BT to change the line as it was 1960's vintage. Turns out there were so many microfractures from tree branches hitting it, the engineer could not even estimate the number; 10,000+ was his guess.
Every time the wind moved the line, or a passing lorry caused an updraft that moved the line, my line would get tons of CRC and FEC errors.
 
if its outside interference an IPlate could help, lm not saying it will solve the issue but it can remove some of the interference from say street lighting, problem is there are so many things out there that can cause problems its hard to narrow things down to one, in fact lm pretty sure l heard a story somewhere about how someones net problems were caused by a neighbours TV (or some appliance or another) but dont quote me on that one...
 
A fair comment, Timeless, in that iPlate's are good and you can increase your speed by a small margin, according to the figures. Neighbour's TVs can easily cause problems as they're fair electrical and magnetic sources, and if your dividing walls aren't too great, all the worse. And that's why I repeat yet again I do have the router and phone as far away from anything else as I possibly can. So, this is fairly irrelevant to my situation.

If it were the case, then I wouldn't have continual slowdowns to 10% of my "proper" speed, only after 50-75 minutes. It runs perfectly up to that point. CRC/FEC errors are low too. In any case, problem or no, and iPlate doesn't really interest me, as despite buying tons of games, online gaming, video streaming, and 4 PCs being in our house, I find that 2Mb is absolutely fine for our needs; and our normal speed is 6Mb, so we're well within our comfort zone, as it were.

Anyway, seems a moot point, as I've had communication from Fast today to say that BT have identified a failure at their end (apart from their whole management :P), reads as follows:

"Fault has been sent to specialised team to investigate further for possible line card issue as other circuits on the same line card are failing TAM."

Now, I don't expect for a minute BT'll be starting on that until Monday at the earliest, but at least, for once, we're heading in the right direction, and also an excellent reminder of why I keep with Fast as my ISP - they certainly get things done as best as they can (BT's hindrances notwithstanding).

Anyway, thanks for all the advice - all of it is worthy. I'll let you know the conclusion (when it eventually happens). It may provide some use to someone else along the line (no pun intended).
 
sounds like your issue might be sorted soon..

however as point of informational value, the distance between the modem/router can also be irrelevant when concerning interference, if you consider for a second that while phone line interference such as Captain Cretin suggested can be one cause of noise that causes issues with sync the same thing can likely happen with power lines, now lm only under the assumption here at least in respects to my story in the previous post that the interference was likely passed electronically through the power lines into the router.

I would assume the same when considering street lighting as a cause (which has been known) it can be extremely bad around christmas with everyone putting up their christmas lights, still l do stress a £5 IPlate as a recommendation as it does help with interference but thats up to you (heh sorry to keep on about it, but just putting it into context of the post) and lm sure l reasonable surge protector wouldnt go a miss either, but thats just my opinion ^_^.
 
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I agree with your comments, timeless, and to someone who's suffering from low speeds generally, it would be a wise investment.

However, as I said, when my line's eventually running OK, interference is no problem, so that £5 would be wasted for me. Being disabled, and housebound for most of the time, a decent connection is vital to me, as I do almost all my shopping online. I do a lot of gaming: a fair amount of online, but I buy tons of the things (currently somewhere over 15,000). As many people nowadays, I stream a fair amount of video. Even with all this, and the 3 other PCs in the house, 2Mb down suits my needs fine. So the fact that we have 6Mb down in normal circumstances is excellent. To find another 10% speed or so on top of this, would be sheer folly.

This doesn't negate the validity of your advice, of course, just it's absolutely useless for my situation.
 
like l said, it was just mentioned for thread context.. others might find it useful ^_^ tho if l could get 6meg by tweaking l would :p
 
I have my router sat between an old 32" CRT TV and an even older HUGE Cambridge Audio speaker; no drop is speed for me.
BT used to say I could only get 0.5, then 2 at a stretch; I can actually get 5.5 most of the time!!

So, I was right, a dodgy DSLAM, you are lucky it was fully populated; I know my sister wasnt the only poor sap having a problem; at least 2 of her neighbours were having the same;, but obviously they didnt consider there were enough customers complaining to pull their fingers out and fix it.
 
Oh boy ...

Well, thought I'd update now things are a little clearer (or are they?)

BT claim to have changed the tied pair (got the notification from Fast yesterday).

Upon checking things, speed was down even further. "Never mind", thought I, "I'll just reboot the router and see how we go". So, a reboot later, and still the even-slower speed.

So, now I've go no blessing of this "normal" speed for the first 55 minutes or so. It's now sitting at 40kbps down (which is now unusable apart from very basic browsing), and 150kbps up.

After speaking to Fast, I happily let it sit for a few hours, to see how things went yesterday, to no avail. Fast got back to me this morning to say that BT claim the line takes up to 48 hours to "settle down". They question this (and I go by their judgement), but we'll play ball for now.

So, I wait until tomorrow to see what happens before I pass it back yet again ....


Just like good old BT - snatching defeat from the jaws of victory once more.


P.S. @Timeless - quite agree with your comment - someone else may find the comments useful. Hope you didn't take offence at my comments, if they sounded a bit shitty.
@Captain Cretin - kudos to you, sir! Dodgy DSLAM indeed ... I hoped someone one here would offer me guidance and they did, thank you! Not surprised about BT's handling of your sister - that sounds like their one of their dodgy "economic" decisions that I've grown to hate.
 
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