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Three mobile 4G + Huawei B535 weirdness

AWED

Casual Member
Hi,

I have recently acquired a Huawei B535 4G router on an unlimited data tariff with Three. At the moment I do NOT have an external aerial. No 5G available where I live (Worcester).

It's driving me crazy!

The concept is great, and it does work. My speeds are pretty crummy though - download can be up to 20, usually somewhere between 8 and 15, occasionally lower. Workable, but not great. I've moved it various positions around the house, I'm aware how fickle and sensitive these are.

So here are my questions:
1. Frequently I have only a 2 or 3 bar signal on the indicator, yet speeds of 15+. But when the signal strength shows as 4 or 5 bar, the download speed DROPS - down to single figures, 3, 4. Now, I know that signal strength and speed don't correlate exactly, but a stronger signal = slower speeds? This really puts me off investing in an external antenna.

2. Usually around 3pm the download speeds plummets to 1 or 2 Mbps. I power cycle the router and the speed returns to ~10-15. Eh? What gives?

3. Should I get an external antenna? I was thinking of the Poynting 4G-XPOL-A0001 Cross Polarised 4G Omni. But given (1) should I bother? Is the reason for poor speeds contention / overloaded network rather than reception? I used to think so, and it's certainly true that speeds drop in the late afternoon, but even in the early hours of the morning I never get much above 16 Mbps download.

I haven't adjusted any settings in the router, wouldn't know where to begin.

Any advice gratefully received!

Awed
 
Use the LTE H Monitor for windows https://ltehmonitor.github.io or HuaCTRL for android and post your stats for RSSI RSRQ RSRP SINR, this will give you a better idea of the quality of the signal.

Have you tried putting the router in the loft, even on an extension cable just to test if you get a a better connection?

Also, use cellmapper.net to help locate the nearest towers.
 
So here are my questions:
1. Frequently I have only a 2 or 3 bar signal on the indicator, yet speeds of 15+. But when the signal strength shows as 4 or 5 bar, the download speed DROPS - down to single figures, 3, 4. Now, I know that signal strength and speed don't correlate exactly, but a stronger signal = slower speeds? This really puts me off investing in an external antenna.
Absolutely this can happen - what I expect you're experiencing is that when you have 2-3bars you're connected to Band 3 (1800mhz), but when it 'switches' to 3-4bars you've actually lost the B3 connection and are now connected to B20 (800mhz).

Lower frequencies (e.g. 800mhz) penetrate buildings much better than higher ones (e.g. 1800mhz), so you'll see higher signal levels on B20 than with B3 in the same location.

Three only own a third of the spectrum in B20 than they do in B3. This results in theoretical speeds of their B20 being a third of what theoretically could be achieved in B3.

If you observe the CELL_ID value in the router at [Advanced] > [System] > [Device Information] I'd expect you'll see this changing, indicating you're switching from one cell to another (each band and antenna combination on a mast is represented by a different ID).

It sounds like you're located on the very edge of the B3 coverage, or your building is blocking enough signal to make it appear that you're on the edge.
While you're in the [Device Information] section, knowing the RSRP/SINR/RSRQ values would be helpful - those are the 'raw' signal level values the router uses through an algorithm to display the number of bars.
 
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I agree with MrDave - experiment with placement first and check where your local antennas are. For me (with a B525 on Three) adding an external aerial did help a lot. I went from 15-20 to 40-60 and I've only placed it in the Attic. For a while I had it on an outside wall and was getting 80. It still dive bombs occasionally but only to around 10-15 which is workable.

Have you tried changing the DNS server on the router as well? Three's can be really wonky and cause problems. Someone posted this a while back:

press f12 in chrome to open the dev console and then enter
$('#dhcp_dns').show();

they posted a vid too:

Set it to whatever you want, Cloudflare DNS works well for me or Google. This made a dramatic difference - far more stable all around and devices stopped randomly losing their internet connections.
 
Hey @MrDave @GavinAshford @ORbit thanks so much for amazingly speedy and informative replies. Definitely I will try more locations, I had been thinking of trying router in the attic, so if I can get better speed there then an external antenna mounted there or outside must be worth doing.

Very interested to read the explanation for the strength vs. speed issue.

The LTE Monitor software looks intimidating, and in French, I will try the Android App.

I must be utterly dumb. I've tried the cellmapper site before, and it never shows me anything, no matter what network / band / provider values I enter. However, by accident I just discovered if I right-click one of the tower triangles, select provider and click "3Uk" there, suddenly it works. So now I can see I'm midway between 2 towers offering bands 3 and 20 each about half a mile away.

Let me see how far I can get with the info and tips provided. The DNS tip is fascinating - I've seen sudden drop-outs that last for a second or two, this could be the explanation.

Thanks - I will update!
 
Additional....

I must be so thick. On my Android phone I've installed "HUACtrl". Now I am stumped. I cannot find instructions anywhere.

1) Are we sure this will work with the B535?
2) It prompts me for "user", "pass" and IP. User is filled in as "admin".
Are the username and password my router creds? That would seen logical but my router admin page never prompts me for a username, only a password.
3) I enter my IP. On the "stat" page I see all the dials and controls and not one of them does or shows anything. The single active control is marked "run" that seems to do a never ending download / upload speed test. Everything else is blank, zero, non functional.

I don't mind paying for Pro as long as I know this is compatible with the B535!

Any help on this one?
Cheers!
 
Additional....

I must be so thick. On my Android phone I've installed "HUACtrl". Now I am stumped. I cannot find instructions anywhere.

1) Are we sure this will work with the B535?
2) It prompts me for "user", "pass" and IP. User is filled in as "admin".
Are the username and password my router creds? That would seen logical but my router admin page never prompts me for a username, only a password.
3) I enter my IP. On the "stat" page I see all the dials and controls and not one of them does or shows anything. The single active control is marked "run" that seems to do a never ending download / upload speed test. Everything else is blank, zero, non functional.

I don't mind paying for Pro as long as I know this is compatible with the B535!

Any help on this one?
Cheers!
Yes, user admin, your admin password, and 192.168.8.1 by default

It should look something like below;

What does it show under BAND and F/TDD

hc11-jpg.1293794
 
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D'oh @MrDave I was using my actual IP, not the 192.168.8.1 one, even though I know that's the IP for the router admin. My bad!!!!

Now I have that correct, yes, I see proper data.

No idea how to interpret that data. but I see it!

Am I correct in thinking that the HUACtrl app conflicts with the normal router admin webpage? I can't seem to log on to that with the app running.

I can see options on the "tools" tab for selecting and de-selecting bands. So am I correct in thinking it would be possible to deselect B20, select only B3? Is that advisable?

From my router admin page (or the app) I see my cell ID is 3238657. Using cellmapper I can see that cell belongs to a tower much further away then my closest towers: 3.8Km in fact, despite there being towers as close as 800m. No idea why that is, must just be the nature of intervening buildings. Assuming that cell ID is constant, this probably explains my low speed. An external antenna mounted high up might well give me a better connection to that tower, or a connection to a nearer tower.

Learning a lot here today, thanks to everyone who has responded.
 
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The figures I see now are

RSSI: -75 dBm
RSRQ: -8.0 dB
RSRP: -107 dbM
SNR -3 db

Greek to me.
 
From my router admin page (or the app) I see my cell ID is 3238657. Using cellmapper I can see that cell belongs to a tower much further away then my closest towers: 3.8Km in fact, despite there being towers as close as 800m. No idea why that is, must just be the nature of intervening buildings. Assuming that cell ID is constant, this probably explains my low speed. An external antenna mounted high up might well give me a better connection to that tower, or a connection to a nearer tower.

Learning a lot here today, thanks to everyone who has responded.

Cell 3238657 (on eNB 12651) doesn't have enough data on cellmapper to accurately position it, which is why its coloured red - it's not going to be showing in the right place.

Use this as a guide for the metrics:
LTE-RF-Conditions.png
 
The figures I see now are

RSSI: -75 dBm
RSRQ: -8.0 dB
RSRP: -107 dbM
SNR -3 db

Greek to me.
Yes the HuaCTRL app will keep logging you out of the web interface. Just use the app to get real time stats as you position the router.

You need to improve the RSRP (-80) and SINR(+13 for a solid connection), if you can get the router as high as possible while you don't have an antenna that should help. Also try facing the front of the router towards your nearest tower see if it locks onto that instead.
 
I can see options on the "tools" tab for selecting and de-selecting bands. So am I correct in thinking it would be possible to deselect B20, select only B3? Is that advisable?
There's no harm in trying that, you can add it back once you have tested it.
 
Talk about tampering with forces you barely understand.

I had some success with de-selecting band B20. Didn't make much difference, but it did work.

I then tried the suggestion of facing the front of the router towards the nearest tower. That caused it to lock onto another tower (eNBID 7293) BUT that has proved very detrimental - channel B20 and pitifully low download speeds, 1-2 Mbps. For some reason it no longer lets me deselect B20. Rather, I deselect it (other channels including B3 are there), save, and whereas before it restarted the router, now it does nothing, and B20 is re-selected.

Is there a maximum number of times you can edit channel info?

Trouble is, I can't make the damned router lock back onto the original tower now, so in effect I have reduced my download speeds from 10 to 1 Mbs.

Urgh!

OK. Rebooted router, de-selected B20 again and now it has returned to the original eNBID 12651.

eNBID 7293 is much closer but seems to insist on B20 and crap download speeds. eNBID is ten times the distance but permits B3.

Definitely need to experiment with placing the router in the attic and sticking to that "good" eNBID 12651
 
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OK, so my previous post was me just "thinking aloud". I've now gathered my thoughts and have an actual question.

It must be worth seeing if I can achieve a better signal to the tower eNBID 12651 by placing the router in the attic or trying an externally mounted aerial.

BUT what I fear is that I go to all the expense of an antenna, and mounting it on a pole, and the damn thing locks onto that dud tower eNBID 7293.

(Oddly, cellmapper recognises that as a valid eNBID number but shows me no actual tower - the map changes but there is no tower symbol there!). That tower seems only to have slow B20 band available.

Would it be better to choose a directional antenna rather than the "Poynting 4G-XPOL-A0001 Cross Polarised 4G Omni" I was considering? Or is there any other way I can prevent my router from latching onto what appears to be a local but useless tower?

I had shied away from directional aerials because of the need to readjust them if their target tower went offline.

Would Three Customer Services be able to tell me anything about this damn eNBID 7293, i.e. perhaps band B3 is only temporarily unavailable?
 
7293 does exist, but it's even lower in data than what is shown normally. You have to enable the 'show low accuracy towers' option in the settings section to see it.
If a Three mast has B20 then it will definitely have B3 at least. Three don't deploy B20 alone.
 
I'm confused by your posts above. It sounds to me like you're actually selecting only B20, which is why you're attaching to it. Rather than selecting only B3.
 
I'm confused by your posts above. It sounds to me like you're actually selecting only B20, which is why you're attaching to it. Rather than selecting only B3.

If I said that, I was mixing up. I have only ever *de*-selected B20. B3 is what I am choosing.

That 7293 mast is very odd. When I am connected it lists B3 and B20 but won't allow me to remove B20. Thanks for the tip on showing low accuracy towers, I see it now. Interestingly, cellmapper shows it as only supporting B20.

Any thoughts on directional / omni-directional antenna? Or any other way to block that nuisance tower?
 
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