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Three / Vodafone Merged Network Technical Discussion

The Wee Bear

ULTIMATE Member
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Hi folks just creating a thread here on the basis that the Three / Vodafone merger is actually approved, not long now till we find out, it's looking very likely though.

What do you think will happen technically, and what would you really like to see happen with any spectrum changes, frequencies etc ?

How long do you think it will take for the merger to bring us any benefits?

So many questions.😁

Don't forget to share any changes that you discover too. (y)

Feel free to post your thoughts peeps. 😊
 
I just hope prices stay the same and customer services don't suffer because of the merger. Would we see better coverage, though?
Prices will go up because of lack of competition.

Coverage will be better by few percentages, but performance will degrade significantly if they'll remove "duplicate" or common masts within a 300m radius.

@Denco1 can you share that simulation your friend did?
 
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Weebear, Technically we all will be worse off !

Any potential benefits will be way beyond our timeline (10 years of £1 billion investments per year is what they claim, if at all fructified and many masts to be made redundant under the guise of Synergies and efficiencies).

Maybe the next genaration will see some benefits, but at higher costs. surely. By which time they will stop investing since 6G will be on the horizon and thus wait it out !

My suspicion is that VodaCON will eventually take over Three network completely with an internal purchase of Three shares, without inviting further attentions from CMA or OFCOM. Who cannot then interfere in internal company matters.

A classic scoop, by any standards.
 
Prices will go up because of lack of competition.

Coverage will be better by few percentages, but performance will degrade significantly if they'll remove "duplicate" or common masts within a 300m radius.

@Denco1 can you share that simulation your friend did?
I am really intrigued to see what happens with the sites.

We're in a different situation to Orange and T-Mobile with this merger. It was quite easy really, one network had money spent on it, one hadn't. They picked the network that had been invested in.

With this one, there are parts of the Three network that are crippled but you also have areas where they have spent significant money and the network is great. They blow Vodafone away around here.

In a 300m radius here, we have a large macro site housing VF,O2,EE and Three, a separate (former O2) shared O2 / VF site and a brand new Three PoW.

Now if O2 and VF wanted to, they could use all of them, but it seems overkill.

Pulling down a 9 month old site also doesn't make much sense.
 
Main thing I'd like to see is investment into the areas of the network that haven't seen much, your b3, b20 and 3G only parts of the network and sorting out poor backhaul.

Three has already left a good base for 5G performance that I hope gets expanded on with more n78 coverage and further spectrum spread for a better SA experience.

Prices will of course end up going higher but I hope it doesn't turn into another EE.
 
I am really intrigued to see what happens with the sites.

We're in a different situation to Orange and T-Mobile with this merger. It was quite easy really, one network had money spent on it, one hadn't. They picked the network that had been invested in.

With this one, there are parts of the Three network that are crippled but you also have areas where they have spent significant money and the network is great. They blow Vodafone away around here.

In a 300m radius here, we have a large macro site housing VF,O2,EE and Three, a separate (former O2) shared O2 / VF site and a brand new Three PoW.

Now if O2 and VF wanted to, they could use all of them, but it seems overkill.

Pulling down a 9 month old site also doesn't make much sense.
Well said, it also helped Orange/T-Mobile being built with basically the same spectrum in mind while Three and Voda are very different
 
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Well said, it also helped Orange/T-Mobile being built with basically the same spectrum in mind while Three and Voda are very different
Yeah very true.

I remember locally we lost a few really good Orange sites because there was a T-Mobile site local. The signal was never the same after they decommissioned them and now we're seeing EE infilling in some areas. Makes you wonder if they should have kept some.

If Cellnex own these Three PoW's, could they offer them to EE?
 
Well less network congestion eg sluggish speeds at times would be nice as well as similar 5G coverage to O2 locally that is.

5G SA I'm really not fussed about as it's going to take until 2035 before it's common place anyway.

As to Smarty and Voxi, having Smarty but adding the data neutral benefits that Voxi has eg X not using up data, YouTube etc not counting towards your data etc would make them rather attractive to me again least.
 
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I think that:

- Prices will go up eventually. Not so much because it's 3 networks instead of 4, but due to the nature of the companies we'll have. EE/VF/O2 is not the same as VF/Three/Eir, for example.

- Coverage will improve, but it will get worse for some VF/3 users since VF will stop using some masts (same as with the Orange/T-Mobile merger). Signal inside my flat would be heavily affected if they discontinued Three's site and only used the VF's site ~200 meters away.

- Some areas will be hammered by the aditional traffic (eg: areas where Three is bad and VF has limited capacity and vice-versa), plus some roaming issues. I wouldn't do any long term contracts with either network until this is all done.

- Vodafone's current position is the result of bad management and a merger just by itself can't fix it. Without changes, I think we'll see Vodafone stagnating again in a few years, especially now that they'll have many users and no one pushing them hard (maybe EE will, but I don't know).

- EE's smaller customer base may force them to drop their prices slightly/offer more data, but the best deals are likely to be reserved for those also using their broadband.

- O2 will improve, but it's hard for an old dog to learn new tricks. With a few exceptions, they move slow, they are slow, and they're proud of being slow. I think they'll excel at coverage, but I wouldn't be surprised if by 2030 some here are still asking why data fails when kids are at school or why the slow B3 small cells are still being used.

- MVNOs will still be cheaper, but they'll depend on MNOs that never gave too much data away and a new network that doesn't have an incentive to continue doing what they do now. I expect speed caps or different priorities to be introduced.

If the merger is approved, I hope that:

- There's a redistribution of spectrum if we're going to 3 networks to level the playing field. I'd prefer if they sold it to a new 4th player, but I don't think that will happen.

- VodaThree should be required to deploy their spectrum and spectrum sold to other networks should also have the same requirements, with fines or "use it or lose it" clauses attached to them. Spectrum is limited, we can't have networks hoarding it.

- EE should get some low and high band spectrum (B20 and n78 at least). O2 should get some mid/high band spectrum (some or all: some B3, B32, VF's B38 slice, some n78). VF will cry, but tought luck. Again, networks must use this spectrum.

- Guarantees that cheaper plans won't go away after just 3 years (I have low hopes here).

Overall:

- I think we'll have better service/coverage.
- I think we're creating the conditions for prices to be much higher than they are now.
- I have questions about competition in the future.
- I have no confidence in VF's management.
- I doubt O2 will put a lot of pressure on EE and VF, which is bad for everyone.

I hate to be wrong, but wouldn't mind if the three networks proved me wrong :)
 
I think that:

- Prices will go up eventually. Not so much because it's 3 networks instead of 4, but due to the nature of the companies we'll have. EE/VF/O2 is not the same as VF/Three/Eir, for example.

- Coverage will improve, but it will get worse for some VF/3 users since VF will stop using some masts (same as with the Orange/T-Mobile merger). Signal inside my flat would be heavily affected if they discontinued Three's site and only used the VF's site ~200 meters away.

- Some areas will be hammered by the aditional traffic (eg: areas where Three is bad and VF has limited capacity and vice-versa), plus some roaming issues. I wouldn't do any long term contracts with either network until this is all done.

- Vodafone's current position is the result of bad management and a merger just by itself can't fix it. Without changes, I think we'll see Vodafone stagnating again in a few years, especially now that they'll have many users and no one pushing them hard (maybe EE will, but I don't know).

- EE's smaller customer base may force them to drop their prices slightly/offer more data, but the best deals are likely to be reserved for those also using their broadband.

- O2 will improve, but it's hard for an old dog to learn new tricks. With a few exceptions, they move slow, they are slow, and they're proud of being slow. I think they'll excel at coverage, but I wouldn't be surprised if by 2030 some here are still asking why data fails when kids are at school or why the slow B3 small cells are still being used.

- MVNOs will still be cheaper, but they'll depend on MNOs that never gave too much data away and a new network that doesn't have an incentive to continue doing what they do now. I expect speed caps or different priorities to be introduced.

If the merger is approved, I hope that:

- There's a redistribution of spectrum if we're going to 3 networks to level the playing field. I'd prefer if they sold it to a new 4th player, but I don't think that will happen.

- VodaThree should be required to deploy their spectrum and spectrum sold to other networks should also have the same requirements, with fines or "use it or lose it" clauses attached to them. Spectrum is limited, we can't have networks hoarding it.

- EE should get some low and high band spectrum (B20 and n78 at least). O2 should get some mid/high band spectrum (some or all: some B3, B32, VF's B38 slice, some n78). VF will cry, but tought luck. Again, networks must use this spectrum.

- Guarantees that cheaper plans won't go away after just 3 years (I have low hopes here).

Overall:

- I think we'll have better service/coverage.
- I think we're creating the conditions for prices to be much higher than they are now.
- I have questions about competition in the future.
- I have no confidence in VF's management.
- I doubt O2 will put a lot of pressure on EE and VF, which is bad for everyone.

I hate to be wrong, but wouldn't mind if the three networks proved me wrong :)
I agree with you.

I have big doubts on Vodafone becoming this big UK number 1 super power.

They’ll get there on subscriber numbers but so were EE once to the song of 30 million.
 
On the subject of spectrum that I fully agree with but it's how to enforce it that the MNOs use what they have instead of hoarding it.

O2 are meant to be getting better but it's a wait and see attitude in much the same way that I do hope VodaThree uphold their promises but best to wait and see.

That said, if I'm wrong about the merger than I accept that but I hope in a glass half full kinda way that it will be okay.
 
Any technical reassessment will not be in short term and they are likely to be over shadowed by the commercial decisions and where they set their common price points including an upsell of combined network coverage SIMs.

They will also continue to have obligations to MVNOs including their own and others like ASDA.

I expect a cautious approach to maintain revenues, more SIM product differentiation (like EE) and cost reduction (shops and staff) than any imminent technical changes.
 
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I just hope they don't bring in crap fair use policy's n speed caps like ee,
I genuinely think that the majority of users benefit from plans being speed capped; it prevents any one person using too much bandwidth and almost no one would notice unless they ran a speed test. I reckon that the future is unlimited data with different tiers of speed restriction.
 
Let's first see how many Vodkafone and Tree customers PAC out to EE and O2 in order to avoid the likely perturbations in service.
I would expect it to take a good few months first before people get fed up and go.

I think Vodafone will see more departures than Three. Three customers are used to service instability. Vodafone customers generally aren't.
 
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