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Three / Vodafone Merged Network Technical Discussion

Mine is gathering dust now, There's 5G is utter **** in my area.
Aw that's a shame Lucian. :(
I still have the usual 20-30 megs here, which is still quite usable for me.🤷‍♂️
 
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I will be amazed if the Smarty offerings stick around when Vodafone get hold of them.

I would love to be proven wrong.

SMARTY has more brand recognition. Depends whether they value that or not.

VOXI is the easiest to close due to it being very close to Vodafone but it also has brand recognition and it fits in to Vodafone's standard strategy of wanting a youth-focussed brand, which they also do in several other regions.

TalkMobile is the least "known" as it's only on deals sites. However it's probably the hardest to wind up due to it being a totally separate billing system, customer services etc. They could just close it slowly like Plusnet.

For me, I didn't need roaming. I have EU roaming with iD and EE, I have no need for it on the OnePlus, I doubt I'd even take it abroad with me.

As I've posted elsewhere I still believe roaming is a big risk with the deal if SMARTY and TalkMobile are no longer in the space to offer it. TalkMobile already tried to remove it once. The hosts can pull roaming from Lebara or iD if desired too. iD has mooted removing it already in a customer survey that's been about. And I doubt Three PAYG Feel at Home will stick around.

It's also the main reason I have no trust for these networks to do the anything they say in regards to the network performance and investment. All of them lied except O2.

1731088344063.webp
 
Unlimited for £16 on Vodafone with roaming?
I think you expect too much.

You’re not roaming every day, you want a reliable network in your home country.

Going abroad is simply fixed by an additional sim, at low cost.

12gb Smarty/Three payg, Lebara, O2 Big Bundle etc al for £10, cheaper than a roaming daily pass for the MNOs.

I think Vodafone will be my next move once my O2 plan is up.

Three has questionable behaviour in my current location, but pondering on moving to the Wirral where Three from experience far outweighs the other networks so possibly a smarty move.

Edit: worth adding that we need to stop living in the past and holding on to things we had in a past life for a very long time.
 
I wonder who the first piggybacker will be that gets SA.:unsure:
And which network? 🙄
Tesco pay monthly.

I sincerely hope that's the case but they seem to have their hands full at the moment.

The big focus is on the 3G/2G switch off and migrating their PAYG customers onto the new system. It's a full rework with lots of money at stake. It's likely that when this comes around (Q4 2026), it could result in 5G SA possibly being deployed now that everyone would be on the new system.
 
I sincerely hope that's the case but they seem to have their hands full at the moment.

The big focus is on the 3G/2G switch off and migrating their PAYG customers onto the new system. It's a full rework with lots of money at stake. It's likely that when this comes around (Q4 2026), it could result in 5G SA possibly being deployed now that everyone would be on the new system.
In that case, Voxi.
 
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I think you expect too much.

You’re not roaming every day, you want a reliable network in your home country.

Going abroad is simply fixed by an additional sim, at low cost.

12gb Smarty/Three payg, Lebara, O2 Big Bundle etc al for £10, cheaper than a roaming daily pass for the MNOs.

I think Vodafone will be my next move once my O2 plan is up.

Three has questionable behaviour in my current location, but pondering on moving to the Wirral where Three from experience far outweighs the other networks so possibly a smarty move.

Edit: worth adding that we need to stop living in the past and holding on to things we had in a past life for a very long time.
This isn’t about what I expect as I’m not a Vodafone or Three customer.

This is the Vodafone / Three merger thread and I was simply comparing what is currently available on Three and Vodafone, their MVNO’s and what is likely to be available when the dust settles.

The super cheap unlimited sims some Three customers are on now will be gone.

As Smarty is Hutchinson owned, is likely to stick around? Probably not.

It just baffles me why Vodafone’s main MVNO Voxi stripped off roaming as quickly as they could yet we have TalkMobile (owned by VF) that offer it.

Why not just keep it on Voxi?

I’ve got no issue paying for a good quality service. My current EE unlimited sim (with roaming) is cheaper than what I was paying for O2 Simplicity (unlimited) back in 2008.

Is the service better? Yes.

Would I pay more if EE wanted me too? Yes.
 
SMARTY has more brand recognition. Depends whether they value that or not.

VOXI is the easiest to close due to it being very close to Vodafone but it also has brand recognition and it fits in to Vodafone's standard strategy of wanting a youth-focussed brand, which they also do in several other regions.

TalkMobile is the least "known" as it's only on deals sites. However it's probably the hardest to wind up due to it being a totally separate billing system, customer services etc. They could just close it slowly like Plusnet.



As I've posted elsewhere I still believe roaming is a big risk with the deal if SMARTY and TalkMobile are no longer in the space to offer it. TalkMobile already tried to remove it once. The hosts can pull roaming from Lebara or iD if desired too. iD has mooted removing it already in a customer survey that's been about. And I doubt Three PAYG Feel at Home will stick around.

It's also the main reason I have no trust for these networks to do the anything they say in regards to the network performance and investment. All of them lied except O2.

View attachment 20798
Oh the irony.

I wonder if they regret binning off their USP?
 
I think like others have posted, EU roaming is one to me that could be threatened as part of the VodaThree merger, I think it’s a ‘value add’ they’ll try and push more and encourage MNVOs to follow suit.

The only encouraging thing is that EE have started to reintroduce EU roaming on some tariffs and if you can get CS to sometimes add it for you… but I think the trend it for it to be an add on, which is a shame!

I always think it’s intriguing that Tesco mobile never seem to commit long term to EU roaming, it’s always until the end of the year or the following year.
 
But if you're not the type to do a speed test you're using the same amount of data each month regardless of your phone accessed it at 1000 or 100mbps?
The amount of data downloaded each month is meaningless to a network, but a particular cell's capacity at any one time is finite. Capping the data rate allows them to ensure any one person doesn't monopolise the network.

In the past, limited data would work as people wouldn't do anything intensive in the fear of using up their allowance. Now, data packages are so large that only capping speeds effectively manages resources. I'm guessing that's why EE has adopted this as their strategy.
 
I always think it’s intriguing that Tesco mobile never seem to commit long term to EU roaming, it’s always until the end of the year or the following year.
They quite possibly see an increase in revenue for customers signing up because of the perk, hence renewing it cuz hey hold up, Becky from Stockport signed up and she only goes away once a year, we are quids in 51 weeks of the year.
 
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The good thing is there is a template to follow for a successful network merger in the UK, although some technical differences in mobile networks now compared to 2012 may present a few new challenges along the way, but I don't think we will see something wildly off what we had previously with EE from a user point of view.

Likely a new brand will launch (not a marketing expert so not going to guess what this will be called, how it will be priced or pitched). But from a technical point of view the combined organisation will probably issue SIMs homed to Three PLMN 23420), while those SIMs can join VF 23415.

Just like when Everything Everywhere was launched, for a while customers will probably be able to stay on Three or VF, and take out contracts with either, but I suspect they will be strongly encouraged to move to the new brand using some pricing strategy or network restrictions.

For the short term, this will provide users on the new brand with a ridiculous amount of capacity and coverage and will likely be the main selling point initially, but don't get too excited...

Overtime ex-VFs capacity will be shifted to Threes RAN (23420), while ex-Three sites will gradually be connected to VFs RedStream core and take advantage of SA in the process.

On the RAN side, the first change (possibly pretty soon into the merger) I expect what we will see is ex-VFs small allocation of B3 shut down on ex-VF sites, and reallocated to all ex-Three sites (PoWs, rooftops, rural towers, everything)…giving Threes 15MHz 4G spectrum an immediate boost to 20MHz straight away, alleviating congestion in areas where Three never got around to deploying 5G. The second thing we may see see is Threes RAN 23420 broadcasting ex-VFs band7 in dense urban areas like some parts of London where Three had not deployed 5G yet, but i'm less sure on this one. All this can be done quite early without shutting down sites or building new sites, and using existing 4G equipment on old sites from either operator.

Then we get to the urban areas where both (or either network) have invested in recent years, and things get a bit more interesting, as we will start to see sites shut down and/or relocated. Urban areas outside the 12 or so bigger cities, like ones mostly made up of unilateral poles from both operators currently, we will not be observing much, or any, coverage or capacity boost from the merger (depends on area) long term; as both networks tend to provide pretty decent indoor coverage as of now. Often the unilateral poles from VF and Three are metres apart, or just a bit further along the same stretch or road; so it would be uneconomical to keep two sites next to each other (2x backhaul costs, 2x power costs etc).

Overall, which sites remain and go might depend on the city, I can say from looking around the home counties, it seems more likely the VF unwind poles will be going, as it seems like the unwind project ground to a halt 3 years ago, whilst Three have still been busy building and activating phase8 +9 poles through 2024. With a little bit of capacity shifting again, many uni poles will be removed and relocated. But this is good news for the smaller urban areas that never got either. Expect a case-by-case for each site, but I suspect will mostly made up from Three unilateral poles as there are simply way more of these across the country than VF unwind poles (most of Threes urban coverage is made up form new capability, whereas VFs is mostly made up from older sites shared with o2). There may be some fringe cases where either network right now has a gap to fill so it’s obvious these sites are staying for now.

Rural areas gets a bit uncertain, as this will entirely depend on how the combined organisation plans to work with CTIL and MBNL going forward - Either continue working with both (VF have some commitments), or build out new physical infra. But I can see many reasons for this to lean on Threes RAN yet again, whilst adding ex-VF capacity to it, one reason is Three have a clear strategy with b28 in rural areas (from a variety of sites, including TV masts), and for those lucky enough to experience this have had good things to say, often even exceeding VFs band8 only rural coverage. So we will probably continue to see 23420 expand b28 rural availability using a cash injection from the merger, whilst adding ex-VF capacity to it where technically possible (by this we may even see ex-Three 23420 on CTIL sites, and we may actually see VFs b32 deployed beyond Newbury and on some MBNL sites!).

Overall, long term, from a technical point of view, it's going to be a mix across the country depending on where Three and VF have been investing each in the past few years, and where there is good overlap, we will see many sites taken offline and relocated over time. We will likely see Three primarily continue their RAN strategy, 140MHz 5G urban + b28 rural, with a bit of help from VF adding to this capacity* and using a few really well located VF sites in some areas. Whilst we will likely see VF play a bigger part in the network core. *Some spectrum might need to be handed back to ofcom as part of the merger.

As far as I am aware no technical details have been proposed as part of the merger yet so nothing is confirmed and is just a prediction based on my observations of the Three and VF networks over the past 4 years.
 
The good thing is there is a template to follow for a successful network merger in the UK, although some technical differences in mobile networks now compared to 2012 may present a few new challenges along the way, but I don't think we will see something wildly off what we had previously with EE from a user point of view.

Likely a new brand will launch (not a marketing expert so not going to guess what this will be called, how it will be priced or pitched). But from a technical point of view the combined organisation will probably issue SIMs homed to Three PLMN 23420), while those SIMs can join VF 23415.

Just like when Everything Everywhere was launched, for a while customers will probably be able to stay on Three or VF, and take out contracts with either, but I suspect they will be strongly encouraged to move to the new brand using some pricing strategy or network restrictions.

For the short term, this will provide users on the new brand with a ridiculous amount of capacity and coverage and will likely be the main selling point initially, but don't get too excited...

Overtime ex-VFs capacity will be shifted to Threes RAN (23420), while ex-Three sites will gradually be connected to VFs RedStream core and take advantage of SA in the process.

On the RAN side, the first change (possibly pretty soon into the merger) I expect what we will see is ex-VFs small allocation of B3 shut down on ex-VF sites, and reallocated to all ex-Three sites (PoWs, rooftops, rural towers, everything)…giving Threes 15MHz 4G spectrum an immediate boost to 20MHz straight away, alleviating congestion in areas where Three never got around to deploying 5G. The second thing we may see see is Threes RAN 23420 broadcasting ex-VFs band7 in dense urban areas like some parts of London where Three had not deployed 5G yet, but i'm less sure on this one. All this can be done quite early without shutting down sites or building new sites, and using existing 4G equipment on old sites from either operator.

Then we get to the urban areas where both (or either network) have invested in recent years, and things get a bit more interesting, as we will start to see sites shut down and/or relocated. Urban areas outside the 12 or so bigger cities, like ones mostly made up of unilateral poles from both operators currently, we will not be observing much, or any, coverage or capacity boost from the merger (depends on area) long term; as both networks tend to provide pretty decent indoor coverage as of now. Often the unilateral poles from VF and Three are metres apart, or just a bit further along the same stretch or road; so it would be uneconomical to keep two sites next to each other (2x backhaul costs, 2x power costs etc).

Overall, which sites remain and go might depend on the city, I can say from looking around the home counties, it seems more likely the VF unwind poles will be going, as it seems like the unwind project ground to a halt 3 years ago, whilst Three have still been busy building and activating phase8 +9 poles through 2024. With a little bit of capacity shifting again, many uni poles will be removed and relocated. But this is good news for the smaller urban areas that never got either. Expect a case-by-case for each site, but I suspect will mostly made up from Three unilateral poles as there are simply way more of these across the country than VF unwind poles (most of Threes urban coverage is made up form new capability, whereas VFs is mostly made up from older sites shared with o2). There may be some fringe cases where either network right now has a gap to fill so it’s obvious these sites are staying for now.

Rural areas gets a bit uncertain, as this will entirely depend on how the combined organisation plans to work with CTIL and MBNL going forward - Either continue working with both (VF have some commitments), or build out new physical infra. But I can see many reasons for this to lean on Threes RAN yet again, whilst adding ex-VF capacity to it, one reason is Three have a clear strategy with b28 in rural areas (from a variety of sites, including TV masts), and for those lucky enough to experience this have had good things to say, often even exceeding VFs band8 only rural coverage. So we will probably continue to see 23420 expand b28 rural availability using a cash injection from the merger, whilst adding ex-VF capacity to it where technically possible (by this we may even see ex-Three 23420 on CTIL sites, and we may actually see VFs b32 deployed beyond Newbury and on some MBNL sites!).

Overall, long term, from a technical point of view, it's going to be a mix across the country depending on where Three and VF have been investing each in the past few years, and where there is good overlap, we will see many sites taken offline and relocated over time. We will likely see Three primarily continue their RAN strategy, 140MHz 5G urban + b28 rural, with a bit of help from VF adding to this capacity* and using a few really well located VF sites in some areas. Whilst we will likely see VF play a bigger part in the network core. *Some spectrum might need to be handed back to ofcom as part of the merger.

As far as I am aware no technical details have been proposed as part of the merger yet so nothing is confirmed and is just a prediction based on my observations of the Three and VF networks over the past 4 years.
I don't want to rain on your parade, but I have pretty different ideas to what the merger will look like.

On the marketing front I wouldn't underestimate the reach or heritage of Vodafone. It's a global company with headquarters in the UK, for them to remove the Vodafone brand here would be almost suicidal. With EE neither Telekom or France Telecom were headquarterd in the UK.

As for SIMs I can't see 23420 becoming the default. Three's network/core is inferior to VF in almost everyway not to mention it's best to disrupt as few users as possible. It'd be easier to shift Three's smaller base to 23415.

Three don't own any radios capable of 2600, so that is a bit of a non starter for early on in the merger.

Site relocation is another big no no. It's incredibly expensive to acquire a new site location. Even if sites are in suboptimal locations MergeCo will likely keep one or both sites rather than decommissioning both and creating a third.
 
I don't want to rain on your parade, but I have pretty different ideas to what the merger will look like.

On the marketing front I wouldn't underestimate the reach or heritage of Vodafone. It's a global company with headquarters in the UK, for them to remove the Vodafone brand here would be almost suicidal. With EE neither Telekom or France Telecom were headquarterd in the UK.

As for SIMs I can't see 23420 becoming the default. Three's network/core is inferior to VF in almost everyway not to mention it's best to disrupt as few users as possible. It'd be easier to shift Three's smaller base to 23415.

Three don't own any radios capable of 2600, so that is a bit of a non starter for early on in the merger.

Site relocation is another big no no. It's incredibly expensive to acquire a new site location. Even if sites are in suboptimal locations MergeCo will likely keep one or both sites rather than decommissioning both and creating a third.
I agree, they won’t dump the Vodafone name.

There is no need for a spin off company this time round and if they form one, it will be alongside Vodafone.
 
If the merger does go ahead the rural coverage improvement is something I'm looking forward to.

It's a shame there's a few O2 only rural masts that look like they're Shared CTIL masts but are actually O2 only.
 
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On the marketing front I wouldn't underestimate the reach or heritage of Vodafone. It's a global company with headquarters in the UK, for them to remove the Vodafone brand here would be almost suicidal.

I don't think I mentioned Vodafone going, just that a new brand will be launched. Think of it like how EE is to BT; A new brand owned by Vodafone and H3G.

Besides, knowing a few people on VF, I wouldn't say they have positive things to say about their interaction with VF (customer service, billing, order issues on broadband) so I wouldn't say the brand is that strong to keep on the customer facing side.

Three don't own any radios capable of 2600, so that is a bit of a non starter for early on in the merger.

band7 deployment on 23420 will come from VF sites with this capability.
 
Long term less competitive tariffs, fuelled by the reduction of players in market and higher market position. (EE tactics)
Better coverage, but also less capacity per customer as duplication will be removed.
 
Their web services are far superior to Three's.

Oh yeh three is terrible. I wouldn’t sign a contract with either.

I remember when EE launched it was a premium offering, not sure how a new brand owned by voda three would be positioned in the market, likely less appetite for a premium brand nowadays with such good SIM only deals it would be a tough sell.
 
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