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Three / Vodafone Merged Network Technical Discussion

I don't think I mentioned Vodafone going, just that a new brand will be launched. Think of it like how EE is to BT; A new brand owned by Vodafone and H3G.

Besides, knowing a few people on VF, I wouldn't say they have positive things to say about their interaction with VF (customer service, billing, order issues on broadband) so I wouldn't say the brand is that strong to keep on the customer facing side.



band7 deployment on 23420 will come from VF sites with this capability.
EE/BT is much closer to O2/VM than VF/3. EE and O2 were mobile companies that merged with broadband companies. BT/VM had no/limited retail presence.

VF/3 is a different beast, they are both mobile companies.

Telco has always had relatively poor NPS vs other industries. You can reinvent but it's difficult to maintain that success over the longer term
 
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The good thing is there is a template to follow for a successful network merger in the UK, although some technical differences in mobile networks now compared to 2012 may present a few new challenges along the way, but I don't think we will see something wildly off what we had previously with EE from a user point of view.

Likely a new brand will launch (not a marketing expert so not going to guess what this will be called, how it will be priced or pitched). But from a technical point of view the combined organisation will probably issue SIMs homed to Three PLMN 23420), while those SIMs can join VF 23415.

Just like when Everything Everywhere was launched, for a while customers will probably be able to stay on Three or VF, and take out contracts with either, but I suspect they will be strongly encouraged to move to the new brand using some pricing strategy or network restrictions.

For the short term, this will provide users on the new brand with a ridiculous amount of capacity and coverage and will likely be the main selling point initially, but don't get too excited...

Overtime ex-VFs capacity will be shifted to Threes RAN (23420), while ex-Three sites will gradually be connected to VFs RedStream core and take advantage of SA in the process.

On the RAN side, the first change (possibly pretty soon into the merger) I expect what we will see is ex-VFs small allocation of B3 shut down on ex-VF sites, and reallocated to all ex-Three sites (PoWs, rooftops, rural towers, everything)…giving Threes 15MHz 4G spectrum an immediate boost to 20MHz straight away, alleviating congestion in areas where Three never got around to deploying 5G. The second thing we may see see is Threes RAN 23420 broadcasting ex-VFs band7 in dense urban areas like some parts of London where Three had not deployed 5G yet, but i'm less sure on this one. All this can be done quite early without shutting down sites or building new sites, and using existing 4G equipment on old sites from either operator.

Then we get to the urban areas where both (or either network) have invested in recent years, and things get a bit more interesting, as we will start to see sites shut down and/or relocated. Urban areas outside the 12 or so bigger cities, like ones mostly made up of unilateral poles from both operators currently, we will not be observing much, or any, coverage or capacity boost from the merger (depends on area) long term; as both networks tend to provide pretty decent indoor coverage as of now. Often the unilateral poles from VF and Three are metres apart, or just a bit further along the same stretch or road; so it would be uneconomical to keep two sites next to each other (2x backhaul costs, 2x power costs etc).

Overall, which sites remain and go might depend on the city, I can say from looking around the home counties, it seems more likely the VF unwind poles will be going, as it seems like the unwind project ground to a halt 3 years ago, whilst Three have still been busy building and activating phase8 +9 poles through 2024. With a little bit of capacity shifting again, many uni poles will be removed and relocated. But this is good news for the smaller urban areas that never got either. Expect a case-by-case for each site, but I suspect will mostly made up from Three unilateral poles as there are simply way more of these across the country than VF unwind poles (most of Threes urban coverage is made up form new capability, whereas VFs is mostly made up from older sites shared with o2). There may be some fringe cases where either network right now has a gap to fill so it’s obvious these sites are staying for now.

Rural areas gets a bit uncertain, as this will entirely depend on how the combined organisation plans to work with CTIL and MBNL going forward - Either continue working with both (VF have some commitments), or build out new physical infra. But I can see many reasons for this to lean on Threes RAN yet again, whilst adding ex-VF capacity to it, one reason is Three have a clear strategy with b28 in rural areas (from a variety of sites, including TV masts), and for those lucky enough to experience this have had good things to say, often even exceeding VFs band8 only rural coverage. So we will probably continue to see 23420 expand b28 rural availability using a cash injection from the merger, whilst adding ex-VF capacity to it where technically possible (by this we may even see ex-Three 23420 on CTIL sites, and we may actually see VFs b32 deployed beyond Newbury and on some MBNL sites!).

Overall, long term, from a technical point of view, it's going to be a mix across the country depending on where Three and VF have been investing each in the past few years, and where there is good overlap, we will see many sites taken offline and relocated over time. We will likely see Three primarily continue their RAN strategy, 140MHz 5G urban + b28 rural, with a bit of help from VF adding to this capacity* and using a few really well located VF sites in some areas. Whilst we will likely see VF play a bigger part in the network core. *Some spectrum might need to be handed back to ofcom as part of the merger.

As far as I am aware no technical details have been proposed as part of the merger yet so nothing is confirmed and is just a prediction based on my observations of the Three and VF networks over the past 4 years.

Logistically this would be an absolute nightmare.

Group is a global brand and based in Paddington with a significant base in Newbury alongside UK.

So in this world new brand is based at Newbury alongside Vodafone but they also share resources and staff as there is complexity around payroll and so on.

And all this happens whilst there’s a new brand but Vodafone being a UK organisation continues as Vodafone except in the UK where they have another brand they manage? Even Voxi has Vodafone written on it.

It’s a complete non-starter. Vodafone is in the driving seat by design. Hence the ownership split and an opportunity for Three early exit which they will take.

I actually think calling this is a merger is just a marketing gimmick. It’s a Vodafone acquisition.

The only way the Vodafone brand goes is if the whole company goes as per New Zealand.

I am very confident Three will disappear.
 
With their good and bad, Vodafone is a strong british brand, recognised and respected all over the world. I personaly think it’s the best brand in UK from all the other operator brands. EE&Three have no emotion, no story.
While I agree I think the Three brand will disappear and the Vodafone brand will stay - I don't think that the Vodafone brand is particularly well liked in the consumer space in the UK.

It feels 'stuffy' and 'old' to me, very corporate. I personally think they'd be better off expanding their Voxi brand for consumers which feels more friendly.
 
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While I agree I think the Three brand will disappear and the Vodafone brand will stay - I don't think that the Vodafone brand is particularly well liked in the consumer space in the UK.

It feels 'stuffy' and 'old' to me, very corporate. I personally think they'd be better off expanding their Voxi brand for consumers which feels more friendly.

But again that’s a significant portion of Vodafone’s revenues, Three essentially doesn’t exist in the corporate space.

And especially with VGE, again you’d have two brands especially for large corps who have a global agreement e.g. VW.

They would be utterly mad to get rid of it.

I haven’t worked there for years but Vodafone brand perception was fairly good, old, “British”, it was the customer service that brought it down some.
 
I don't think I mentioned Vodafone going, just that a new brand will be launched. Think of it like how EE is to BT; A new brand owned by Vodafone and H3G.

Besides, knowing a few people on VF, I wouldn't say they have positive things to say about their interaction with VF (customer service, billing, order issues on broadband) so I wouldn't say the brand is that strong to keep on the customer facing side.



band7 deployment on 23420 will come from VF sites with this capability.
Get what you're saying but I am not sure they will launch a new brand. Well not unless it is a budget / young and funky brand that encapsulates Voxi and Smarty. Three will probably be slept first, some stores closed, some rebranded.

Everything Everywhere was born because Orange and T-Mobile were basically pulling out of the UK market.

Vodafone are very much here for the long term.

Had BT made a move for EE earlier on, I think EE would have been rebranded and disappeared.
 
With Voxi and Smarty, as Vodafone would be the majority shareholder than would we see Smarty become more in line with Vodafone policies especially where roaming is concerned?

Would we see Smarty follow Voxi's lead in how they handle EU roaming and reintroduce daily charges but on the other hand, introduce similar social media/entertainment packs that Voxi provides that doesn't use up data (I think that's right?)

Personally I like Smarty to keep it's existing roaming policy but also introduce similar packs to Voxi which would be rather attractive.

Or would we likely see no change with what either provides except for the fact that Smarty users can now access Vodafone infrastructure and likewise for Voxi users accessing Three infrastructure?
 
With Voxi and Smarty, as Vodafone would be the majority shareholder than would we see Smarty become more in line with Vodafone policies especially where roaming is concerned?

Would we see Smarty follow Voxi's lead in how they handle EU roaming and reintroduce daily charges but on the other hand, introduce similar social media/entertainment packs that Voxi provides that doesn't use up data (I think that's right?)

Personally I like Smarty to keep it's existing roaming policy but also introduce similar packs to Voxi which would be rather attractive.

Or would we likely see no change with what either provides except for the fact that Smarty users can now access Vodafone infrastructure and likewise for Voxi users accessing Three infrastructure?
I reckon they'll just migrate everyone to Voxi and shut it down. Same will happen with Three. Everyone will go to VF. When, I'm not sure but it'll happen.

I'm not very familiar with the concepts of Multi Operator RANs, but I'd assume adding Three traffic onto VF+O2 sites would be a lot easier than the other way around. I think you'll only see Three sites kept if VF coverage was none existent.
 
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I reckon they'll just migrate everyone to Voxi and shut it down. Same will happen with Three. Everyone will go to VF. When, I'm not sure but it'll happen.

I'm not very familiar with the concepts of Multi Operator RANs, but I'd assume adding Three traffic onto VF+O2 sites would be a lot easier than the other way around. I think you'll only see Three sites kept if VF coverage was none existent.
Surely Vodafone would have to pay CK Hutchinson to use the Three name? If so I would expect Three to disappear quite quickly.
 
Surely Vodafone would have to pay CK Hutchinson to use the Three name? If so I would expect Three to disappear quite quickly.
I was just thinking this earlier. Bit like how VM is going to dissapear as soon as the contract renewal for the name is up.
 
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