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USO Launches this week!

I spoke with the USO team yesterday. They're expecting further information to be provided to customers on the 'detailed quote' but have stressed the 'commercial sensitivity'. So, I'm expecting more detail on the £1.1m quote but not sure what - TBC!
 
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Another 10 days passes, and still no deadlock letter. I'll be calling them again today. They should arrive within 10 days, it's been over 20 so far with an admission of failure to process/send the first one out. looks like a second failure unless it happens to randomly arrive in the post today. I've yet to hear of anybody receiving a deadlock letter who's requested one.
 
No deadlock letter, as the quotes have apparently been requested from Openreach. A deadlock letter cannot be provided until after a quote has been issued... apparently last week all quotes were bulk requested from Openreach..

However, no indication of expected lead times at the moment.

It's worth considering that the USO agreement allows 60 days for the quote and had somebody at Openreach read the terms and conditions they should be following perhaps things would have gone smoothly. It's almost like they have no ISO processes in place and are winging it.. OR as I've hinted at before, I suspect it's an intentional delaying tactic.

I would like to say that the people on the USO helpline have been very helpful and always a pleasure to talk with. I think Openreach frustrates us all! Back to waiting :)

Place your bets.. will the "detailed quotes" be detailed, or high level buzzwords intended to be smoke and mirrors..

I happened to find this today, not sure how I hadn't stumbled across it before:

Your Quote may vary compared to those for other addresses in your neighbourhood and depending on when you make your Request. Factors including whether other people in your area have already asked for a Network, challenging geography, physical obstacles, third party land and the distance the cabling must travel, can all impact complexity and costs.

I'm looking forward to comparing quotes with my direct neighbours
 
I got a phone call, including new information. It's not what I would call a "Detailed quote"... but it is more information. It's still an estimate based on the total number.

£59,874 (inclusive of VAT)
5 properties would benefit...(Note, no way to know which 5, and there are more than 5 near us that would benefit!)
made up of:
74% cabling and jointing
8% civil engineering
18% planning / ducting

No mention of how the uptake forecast has been factored into the number and it wasn't possible to confirm if the solution would be an FTTC or FTTP solution (Meaning, build a new cab nearer or run fibre).

So, how can this be a detailed quote if they can't even tell you what type of service you would get if you paid the money?

I was told if each of those 5 properties applied (I'm assuming I am one of them), each would have the same price. so in other words.. .it's 5x £60,000.. what?!

So, in other words... the USO is a complete failure because it can't possible fund the "most remote locations", aka it's intended target. What it will do though, is allow those people who can already get a fast connection, but not for under £45 to get a nice refined, cheaper service whilst the rest of us get screwed further.

I guess, time to wait for the 2025 copper phase out as I am assuming as part of that we would HAVE to get fibre. , although I'm pretty sure I'll be cancelling all my landline services once contract is up. what's the point for a 2mb service down and 0.3 up (when it works).

I went back and cross referenced the last community scheme quote for 17 properties, which came in at £4,641.88 per property..

This USO quote is based on ONLY supplying you and the included properties (5 in my case) with a service and doesn't include a single property outside of those 5. How can this scheme possibly work if it will not factor in any service update for properties that would also benefit.

Even If I split the last community quote by just the 5 properties, it still comes in way under the new BT USO quote.

:rolleyes:
 
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Think I've reached the end of the road on this. I finally managed to get what passes for a detailed breakdown of the £48k BT want to charge me for gigabit broadband. There are 4 items: premises served; cabling and jointing; network build/civils; and planning/new ducting. The killer is premises served. I know from my CFP submission last year that there are 28 premises on this "spur" but BT say the most efficient provision to my house only goes past 4 other houses. They won't tell me which 4. So 70% of 4 times £3400 is not very much money, hence the humongous bill. I can take this to the Ombudsman, but not sure if it will achieve anything. Anyone else got past this point?
 
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I am in the Ombudsman phase, my case is filed and under review. In my case I was told 5 properties qualify, and EACH would have to pay around £60k (inclusive of tax). that's £320,000. Yet, 6(ish) months before we got a price for a community scheme that came in at around 4k a house for 17 properties. I also had a FOD quote with an install fee of less than £4,000 which is just for a fibre service to us.

When I asked what service would be provided (4G/5G, fibre to the property, FTTC via new cab etc) I was told it wasn't possible to say, just that it was a 10mb min connection.

So, in no way can you be given a detailed quote that can't tell you what you would get and exactly how that number was calculated. The "quote" also doesn't include any figures around the uptake forecast so you can't validate if or how the forecast has been factored in. There is also no way to know which properties are included.

It's clear and correct that data protection restricts the information that can be shared about each property, but as far as I can tell it's the total number of properties on the exchange, so you could be funding 5 totally independent builds.. no way to know. It's a shame the USO didn't give an opt-in to share information with other applicants.

my complaint with the Ombudsman is to challenge the "detailed" quote, because there isn't enough detail to justify the costs and use to cross reference the other quotes which all appear to conflict.

If you asked for a quote from any tradesperson for a job and it doesn't define what you get and time/materials etc, it's not a detailed quote... It is my opinion BT have not complied with the Ofcom rules around quotes, thus leaving no choice but an Ombudsman complaint.
 
Thought I would follow up. The reason for me for taking this as far as I can, is that I am hoping through additional visibility and scrutiny that perhaps the quote may change, potentially becoming more viable. no idea if it will, and I assume it's unlikely but I like solid factual information rather than numbers which appear to have been chosen by a magic 8 ball shake :)
 
My USO journey is now at an end. the Ombudsman enquiry was closed with a
"No grounds for dispute" status.

So, apparently, neither Ofcom or the Ombudsman will enforce BT to comply with the T&C's outlined by the Ofcom delivery the USO framework. BT can do what they want, quote what they want, provide zero justification for prices and just hope you accept it without any comeback.

So, pulling a random number out of the air seems to be the approach as nobody can (or will) explain the huge price variance in my case or provide any actual details for the "detailed quote". Why can I get an FOD install for 4k(ish), but a USO install is £60,000...

I'm frustrated with the entire process and don't find it fit for purpose, as I think I implied early on in this process.. I think it's entirely missed the main target audience in the most hard to reach areas.

I hope others on a USO journey have better luck.

Now to wait for low orbit satellite or 5G and hope it's viable. it's our last available realistic option.

Will be canning all my BT business contracts & services end of the year once they expire. a 2mb line just isn't viable anymore and hasn't worked for over 6 months anyway. The phone service is barely audible and hasn't worked properly for ages, BT simply don't care.

Has anybody had any success with Bonded 4G services?
 
I run a Draytek 2925 dual wan, wan 1 connects to a Mikrotik 4G router pointed at a Vodafone mast giving 20mbs up and 15mbs down, Wan 2 connects to a Huawei B715 pointing at a Three mast giving 50mbs down and 25mbs up. The local Three mast does not give me the congestion issues a lot of others have but if it did then as the mast is shared with EE I would just go with them. Last week the shared Three/EE mast was down for 4 days and the router just seamlessly went to voda 100% onlyslowing down large downloads. Wan 3 can also connect to a phone wifi hotspot if needed so I could have added some data to an EE sim I have as a reserve. The Draytek does not do full bonding but 'Load Balances' the WAN's but to users it acts like bonding as virtually all connections are multi session, this pc current has 22 sessions so they are dolled out between the Wan's.
 
Thanks for your feedback. I do something similar with load balancing at the moment using a Pfsense firewall across a Three 4G connection (6Mb) and the landline, (2Mb). I'm wondering if there is a way to bond 2x (or more) 4G connections , IE 2x6Mb = 12Mb as a single connection.

The landline is currently using the backup 4G assure service (EE) as the landline hasn't worked for months, but the dongle without external antenna isn't much better than the landline.
 
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I started with a 3G dongle in the USB port of the Draytek and got 5 or 6 mb, then went to a 4G phone by window which upped it to 15mb on 3G or 30mb 4g if I hung it outside the window, then went directional antenna which is a Sat dish type focused onto the antenna which gives me the 4G 50/25. I have also linked it to area Wifi and an ADSL line but now have gone dual 4G. The landline went 2 years ago so rely on voip and old number is ported to Sipgate basic.
 
I too use Sipgate, but I'v a lingering concern that in an emergency, if our net is down we can't call for help. out mobile signals are near zero without a net connection to relay it over. I like the idea of hanging the phone out the window :)

with no line of sight here, I'm using an omnidirectional antenna, which did nothing for the download speed, but massively increased our upload to a usable 1.5Mb on average.

3g doesn't work here, 4G is mostly stable.
 
My setup works as the two 4G services are on different masts and in 2 years both have never been down at the same time so the voip has never been disconnected except with a power cut to the house. There is strangely still a dialing tone on the old landline if I connect a handset, never tried dialing 999 on it.
 
I started reading this thread to find out how I could fix my unstable broadband. Now I realise that I'm almost certainly wasting my time.

Today I'm getting 0.64 Down and 0.43 Up.
Initially the USO team said I didn't qualify as I could get 4G to do the job. Turns out I'm in some sort of 4G dead spot.

I'm near the end (4 other properties after mine) of an EO line with 'no plans to bring fibre to my area'.

380 metres from the end of my EO line is an fibre cabinet supplying 5 properties. They are on the end of another (fibre) line from the same exchange.

Initially the USO team estimated £80k+ and asked me if I'd like a survey and quote. Yes.

I have just got the USO quote:
Surveyed cost Incl VAT: £87,651

Total Homes Passed: 1
Cables and Jointing: 72%
Network Build Civils: 17%
Planning and Other Issues: 11%


I was hoping to be able to wade through the detail to see if they had quoted for connecting me to the fibre cabinet or replacing the EO line 4-5 kilometres back to the exchange.

Total Homes Passed: 1? There are 4 one way and over 10 the other.

The USO have told me that they have no more detail. I either accept the quote or they will hold it for 60 days then delete the request. So the impression I got from them was this was the end of the line.

You'd be forgiven for thinking I live in a lighthouse off Aldernay. I'm not remotely remote! I'm in Cheshire!

From reading this thread I'm guessing that I should request a detailed quote, then get a deadlock letter and then complain to Ofcom?
 
Sorry to hear you're having a similar experience. yes, push for details, if you can't get them they will send you a deadlock letter which you can use to file a complaint with the ombudsman with the details of your own complaint.

Interestingly, and I have no idea why... the Ombudsman yesterday opened a new case, cloning my original one which had been closed. I'm not sure why or if it has any real meaning beyond general admin. I guess time will tell.

I'm going to take a guess that the "total homes passed" means, service to only a single property. aka you, the price is just for your service and yours alone. I may be wrong, total guess...

Further info which I think I'll add to my own complaint.
Ofcom USO point 5.139 states:
We expect that detailed quotations for consumers should clearly explain the work required to deliver the specific connection and an explanation of the various costs involved. We expect the Universal Service Provider to explain to consumers that they have the following options:
a) paying any excess connection costs themselves;
b) doing some of the deployment work themselves to help reduce costs (e.g. digging a trench on their land);
or c) purchasing commercially available satellite broadband (outside the USO scheme).


How can you review item B, when there isn't enough of a detailed quote to know what would need to be dug... :)
 
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I have literally just sent off my email outlining my complaint including the Ofcom requirements you mentioned.

I'm not sure I understand the role of the USO Helpdesk. They don't seem willing or able to ask for a detailed quote.

My last reply questioning if the quote was connection to the fibre cabinet a few hundred metres away or the whole 4-5k in the opposite direction back to the exhange prompted the response

'...It might also be the case that the nearest fibre cabinet is at full capacity, meaning that you would have to be routed to another one or a new cabinet would have to be installed, again this is a costly exercise. And unfortunately again we have no definitive answers regarding this.

We have found that creating a new request has resulted in the same survey figures for other customers, and feel this would be a waste of time for yourself.'


According to the Openreach team that installed it there is capacity for another 50 houses but the real point is that the USO Helpdesk have no idea and seem quite happy to just imagine what the reasons are.

Early in the process the USO Helpdesk staff were keen to tell me they were independent of Ofcom and BT but their email address is '@bt.com'?

No mention of a deadlock letter. I'm not sure I understand the relevance of one either.
 
I had to laugh when I asked the USO team why they hadn't told me about satellite broadband as obligated by the Ofcom USO point 5.139c

Their reply
-We do not generally suggest satellite broadband as an alternative as it is quite expensive.

They just quoted £87,651 to connect to a cabinet a few hundred metres away!
 
haha. did you also ask them what parts of the route you can dig yourself to reduce the cost? perhaps it'll open up more details ;)

I fired off an email this morning to the Connecting Devon & Somerset team to ask them what options are available in case I've missed something or there is something new I am unaware of.
 
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