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V21/biscit charge £105 to leave???

wobbler

Regular Member
A little birdie tells me that folks on the V21 forums are moaning that it costs £105 to rid themselves of all things V21. :eek:
Supposedly it's £35 for a MAC, but I've no idea what the other £70 is for. Maybe it's a mandatory thank you gift for such good service. :D
 

Mel

ULTIMATE Member
Actually, that sounds like biscit's Terms and Conditions not V21's.

http://www.biscit.net/biscit_internet/biscit_terms.php
6.6 Residential Customers ordering products after 1st September 2006 ("New Residential Customers¨) shall be subject to the following variations of Clause 6, namely:

6.6.1 There will be no minimum contract period.

6.6.2 If a New Residential Customer wishes to discontinue the service, they should complete the Cancellation Request Form described in 6.2 above and send it to Biscit with a termination fee of £70 (including VAT). On receipt of cleared funds, the termination will be deemed to have taken place at the next invoice date. If the Residential Customer requires a Migration Authorisation Code ("MAC¨) then an administration fee of £35 (including VAT) will apply, payable with the termination fee.
I suppose the £70 might be an early termination fee, but I'd get that confirmed in writting if that is the case before I'd even think about agreeing to that. (Obviously, I wouldn't be interested in a service that charges £35 for a mac anyway)



V21 customers will still be bound by V21 T&C's unless or until Biscit gives them notice of changes and if the customer finds them to be detrimental then they will be able to leave. I think in the past V21 sometimes just changed the T&C's on the website and expected you to notice within a 14 day deadline. Hopefully biscit are well above that sort of thing, but perhaps just in case v21 customers should keep an eagle eye on the T&C's on the V21 website.

As far as I recall V21 charge £30 for a MAC or have 28 notice if you want a cease. (If I was a departing customer I'd take the cease.)
 

tracker

ULTIMATE Member
You are spot on again Mel....and I've just this minute posted the very same info about V21 customers not being bound by Biscit T&C's unless they agree to them....AGAIN
There is a lot of confusion on this sort of point on the V21 forums and it doesn't help us if 'gossip' or speculation is touted as fact in the abscence of any word from Biscit as to what will or will not be required.
The next 'little bird' that comes out with V21 need to pay £70 etc to leave will be fed to the cat!:laugh:
 

wobbler

Regular Member
Maybe it's because of all the dung the V21 punters are getting force-fed, resulting in no one knowing what's the truth and what isn't. I'm reliably informed that there's posts on V21's forum with customers complaining of a £70 charge to leave + a £35 Mac charge. But hey, don't eat the messenger. :D I couldn't give a damn if it was £105 to leave. If it was, then maybe biscit would go down like V21, which would suit me just fine. Hope you enjoy the ride. :p
 
Last edited:

tracker

ULTIMATE Member
TBH wobbler, I believe its because no-one really knows how a contract actually works ...nor the implications should the company you signed up with be annexed by another.
A few think they are now under the Biscit contract because Biscit is now the name on the letterhead and their knee-jerk reaction is they must now pay what Biscit customers have to if they wish to leave.
Quite obviously false as the V21 customers haven't signed up to any Biscit terms whatsoever.
:)
 

wobbler

Regular Member
TBH wobbler, I believe its because no-one really knows how a contract actually works ...nor the implications should the company you signed up with be annexed by another.
A few think they are now under the Biscit contract because Biscit is now the name on the letterhead and their knee-jerk reaction is they must now pay what Biscit customers have to if they wish to leave.
Quite obviously false as the V21 customers haven't signed up to any Biscit terms whatsoever.
:)
Good point. Contracts are a huge sticking point with me, and one of the reasons I left V21. I always thought ISPs had a clause in their T&Cs which meant they reserved the right to change said T&Cs whenever they liked, as long as this was made public (in V21's case, usually on some unannounced and impossible to find webpage).
Ideally, when any T&Cs are changed, the customer would be purposely notified, leaving it up to the customer to 'opt in', rather than some sneaky hidden 'opt out' policy.

I agree that if customers haven't signed up to biscit's T&Cs, then they aren't bound by those conditions.
 

wobbler

Regular Member
In reply to Mel.

Well done, that man. :nod:
You'd do marvellously well on mastermind, with specialist subject of 'V21'. Hmmm, now why doesn't that sound like a compliment. :D
 

Welshman

Pro Member
no-one really knows how a contract actually works
Contract law is simple. The problem is usually that no-one ever bothers to read what's on the tin until it's too late.

1. By signing up with XYZ ISP you agree to the terms and conditions in force at the date you signed up. So it's a good idea to cut and keep a copy on day 1.

2. The contract is between you and XYZ and can only be changed
if you both agree or
if one or other of you can change the terms because of some provision in the original contract.

3. The usual ISP contracts say something to the effect that the ISP can change the terms on 21 or 28 days notice or whatever and that notice is given by email if you're lucky or on some page lurking deep within the website if you're not. That's OK provided they follow the procedure they've described.

[My ISP for example includes any notice of intended change in its billing emails so hard for me to say I haven't seen it]

4. Usually there's a provision in the T & Cs that if you don't like the change you can leave provided that you give notice within 14 days or whatever of notification of the change.

5. Usually there's another provision saying that if you make another payment after the T & Cs have been changed you are treated as having accepted the new ones.

6. If XYZ is taken over by ABC, ABC has bought the benefit and the burden of your contract and is in exactly the same position as XYZ. ABC can't make any changes to the T & Cs except by following the procedure to which you agreed. ABC can of course use the procedure to change the procedure if you see what I mean.

If there is a nasty change to the T & Cs that might be a case for a reference to Trading Standards or you might even be able to argue that they have introduced an unfair contract term which a Court could decide not to uphold. The problem with disputes with ISPs is that you and they are usually arguing about less than £100 and a lawyer would tell you it's not worth the bother unless you are really bloody minded.

On the other hand, having a little court case in your local County Court under the small claims procedure and miles from the ISP's HQ could involve them in several hundred pounds worth of costs to argue with you. So worth it sometimes on the principle that the mouse can make the elephant run away. Unless it gets trodden on of course.

The moral of the story is that if you are thinking of shifting ISP you should read the new ISP's T & Cs before you sign up. Yes, the legalese can be a bit of a struggle but you don't need training to follow it. Just read all the words.
 
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