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v21 - Want to cancel

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I've just received a very favourable responce from Trading Standards with regards to my complaint about V21 (Fast4) Terms and Conditions and overcharging. I wont go into detail as I'm writting to v21 to give them one last opportunity to honour the contract I signed up to and refund me £8.99.
 
V21 -- ADSL horror story

This company acts as though it is under-resourced & under-funded. It
exhibits the characteristics of a typical pre-failure technology company.
I too wish to cancel.

In the USA, this level of non-service would result in a class action. Not as
common in the UK, but jointly-funded legal action may be attractive. As a
previous CEO of a technology company, I'm familiar with the law, & with
obligations under common law to provide a merchantable quality of service.
V21 seem less familiar, or just choose to bluff out their obligations.

V21 are reputed to be acting outwith Oftcom requirements on transfer
procedures & costs. I see they are not listed as party to either of the Oftcom
ADR lists ( the alternative dispute procedure).

I also see their Managing Director quoted in a Press Release yesterday as
saying "we want to be a market leader in customer satisfaction". I suspect
many V21 users could educate their press contacts on the likliehood of that
occurring .....
 
Mel said:
I've just received a very favourable responce from Trading Standards with regards to my complaint about V21 (Fast4) Terms and Conditions and overcharging. I wont go into detail as I'm writting to v21 to give them one last opportunity to honour the contract I signed up to and refund me £8.99.

Please post more when you have details! I have just got a letter from my solicitors advising the only way to get the money back will be through the small claims court. If we could do joint action i would be more than happy to take that route. I still see no comments from V21 Support!!
 
I've just spent a very amusing afternoon attempting to educate V21 regarding their press release of "V TWO ONE GIVES A FREE DIAL UP ACCOUNT FOR EVERY BROADBAND CUSTOMER"

I made the error of challenging the word 'free' as meaning 'not free' in this instance.
True the new service is a good idea it provides the means to contact V21 when your BB conection falls over or it can be used away from home, but it is far and away from being FREE as the sales pitch would have people believe.
Firstly you have to be paying them for an ADSL connection and either your service must be suffering an outage or you connect away from home. You cannot have someone at home using the ADSL connection and then you swan off to 'Uncle Freds' armed with laptop...dial into the 'free line' and surf away you can use one or the other and never both at the same time.

My argument that if you were indeed using the so-called 'free' dialup service, you would not be using the BB connection that you were paying them for...so far from the dialup being free it was costing you a proportionate amount of your BB subscription....hence not free.

What the publicity blurb should've said, if V21 were honest is...."V TWO ONE MAKES DIAL UP NUMBER AVAILABLE AT NO EXTRA COST FOR ADSL CUSTOMERS WHO FIND THEIR CONNECTION FAULTY OR WANT TO CONNECT AWAY FROM HOME"
Trying to get that viewpoint across was akin to swimming in treacle. Accusations of 'ulterior motives' for making the post and out and out sarcasm was all the moderators could throw back when someone dared to speak the truth.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people out there that will and sadly DO believe that FREE means free when it actually means 'will cost no more than you are currently paying V21'.
One punter proudly sided with the mods with the gem "Hey, it works!" and proceded to do a speed test using the 'free' dialup line...all the while the time he (I'm presuming an 'He') was paying for the 'free' service with the BB subscription!
The thread was finally locked when the mod said "That call cost is free, the subscription to use an 0808 service is also free - I'm not sure how else you can define the word."
As I never disputed his comments I'm at a loss as to why he failed to understand my 'free' interpretation....but then again if someone was paying you for an ADSL connection £16.99 and used a 'free' dial-up instead (V21 lite costs £9.99), You would be a very happy ISP and ulimately if everyone fell for it, very rich. :nod: :D
 
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V21 forum mods censor anything on their forums they don't like!(just been looking on their forum and it's farce how they delete certain threads and lock others) They can't do that here and have decided to run away from the issues raised rather than stand up and answer the questions! To me that say's it all,they can't tell you all why they have taken £80 from people because in reality they shouldn't have and have no right to. To use the term "fraud" in their T&C's is just so ironic-they are the ones committing fraud! Read the thread through people and make your own decisions!!
 
I am taking legal action so any1 want to compare notes? Small claims court definitely. Have finally managed to get shot of this shower after 3 months of yo yo connections, lousy communication, no comment on compensation, attempts to charge £30 for a simple code to allow you to leave overturned once Ofcom invene, refuse 2 downgrade when they should never have upgraded, constant ability 2 blame u when it is their problem, make their own rules up 2 suit themselves. Was actually given a month free because of the acknowledged problems, only to find that now I am leaving they won't count that in the 3 months minimum contract +have 2 pay. Even my upgrade I will have had for over 3 months when my notice period ends. But they insist the one month they offered my does not count as part of the three months. That's the shower they are. And I have been been with them for well over SIX months. The first few months were on 512k. Its scandalous they are allowed to get away with it and have told Ofcom that.
 
v21 the market leader in customer dissatisfaction

Oh I was banned from telling it as it was on the forum and had one thread locked out after people started agreeing! I was actually banned when I reprinted a letter received from someone on v21 about my unhelpful forum message. Apparently negativity is not productive. Did I get a productive response ever.. NO.

[REMOVED - Please do not post personal e-mail addresses]

My last one was this....
Mr Kaye,
I note on a recent press release I have seen ( I am a national news journalist who handles financial stories) that you say "we want to be a market leader in customer satisfaction".
Can I suggest that the best way to do this is actually to respond to emails that customers send you.
Because I have never ever known a company, and I have dealt with many in both my job and in my personal dealings, that was so shambolic in its communications and poor in its service to the public.
Your forum is testimony to that and the comments made on other forums too.
As you probably know I will be taking a small claims court action against the company because of three months of yo yo connections, all of which have been acknowledged.
Yet even when you award me one month free as a gesture of goodwill you claw that back when I through frustration at your lack action, decide to move on. You even indicated to Ofcom that I was in arrears!
All of a sudden the three months minimum contract that I wasn't told about in any case, becomes four months because of that free month. I have to pay for that free month or I dont get the MAC code.
And I dont even get told that until Ofcom get involved. Thats after weeks of requesting a MAC code.
That's how poor your customer relations is. I would say it is customer divorce.
At the moment you are the market leader in customer dissatisfaction. A long way to go then, till you ever reach your goal.
Being with v21 was the worst decision I have ever made in any part of my life. And I will not miss your service.

Martin Williams
 
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How v21 avoid the questions

Some example messages from the various posting.

Can you please provide me with my MAC code. I don't know how many times I have to ask for this, but I will ask it over and over again until you provide me with this.
Its on my message every time and every time v21 avoids the questions.
The problems lie solely and squarely with v21 and always have done.
So please, pretty please with jam on top, give me the MAC code.
29/06/2005 14:41:03 Integrated Systems We seem tobe going round in circles with this and I don't feel we will be getting anywhere with this, it is always a shame when issues come to a head like this. I have taken your date of the 20th as the time of notice to cancel the account, please note that your account will be closed on the 18th of July. If you wish us to cease the line prior to this please let us know.
28/06/2005 17:55:07 Customer CONT: Filters and extension cables checked

I am still awaiting a response for the various communications I have made with v21, by post, by email to three departments and through your support section, to my cancellation letter and my request for the MAC code.
The letter which was posted the weekend before has been attached by email several times to Mr Moody, Mr Kaye and the sales section, after first being sent to you last Monday, as Mr Moody has inadvertently acknowledged..
But I still have had no Mac code and I still have not hand any confirmation that v21 knows I have given notice.
As far as I am concerned you have were notified on June 20.
23/06/2005 21:40:36 Customer CONT: Filters and extension cables checked

To suggest charging for the downgrade is a joke. A downright cheek. And typical of the nonsense that permeates, it seems, throughout v21.
Nonsense that is losing you customers all the time if your support forum is anything to go by, and the ISP forums that I have seen.
I did all the tests and more regarding this line and told you of the problems countless times, answered every question, every fart that v21 emitted I responded to and you have the gall to say I haven't?
Not only that it is the first time you have ever said there was faults on the line, because when I call BT, they say there arent. And certainly v21 have said nothing about faults that were active. As far as you guys are concerned everything is hunky dory.
More total tosh from a tosh outfit.
Ofcom are aware.


23/06/2005 21:40:29 Customer CONT: Filters and extension cables checked

You guys are the limit.
More hogwash, tosh and avoidance of the issues raise.
Nothing about receiving the MAC code, still nothing on the compensation question for the mostly unusable service I have had in three months either.
As for the regrade, I have told you on numerous occasions that it has been tested without an extension. Full stop.
It is interesting that you finally after weeks of debate admit that my line cannot handle a 1mbps service, all interesting for when I take the company to court, over which you have no leg to stand on.
If you cannot provide the service then you have to downgrade. As I have said before it is for you to squabble with BT about whether I should have been upgraded or not.
If my line is not capable, it is your duty as a company to reinstate what went before and reimburse the monies I have lost as a result of the resulting crap service and upgrade.

23/06/2005 11:17:15 Integrated Systems Hello Martin

Thank you for your response once again, should you wish to regrade the line this is fine , there would however be a charge of £11.75 to do this.

We have on numerous occasions asked you to try removing extension leads etc to no avail. The BT checker will state that your line cannot take a 1 mb service because there have been several faults placed on the line as a 1mb. As all other ISP's use the same checker then they will all give the same answer. This in no way means that either BT or ourselves have put your line on the wrong service. We have also not advised Trading Standards that your line cannot handle a 1mbps service.

Had you acted quicker and done the tests etc asked, then we may have been able to ascertain where the issues are. However due to the lack of response in respect of this BT will not regrade the line free of charge, furthermore BT have verified through faults raised that your line can handle a 1mbps connection and this has been demonstrated by stable continuous connections on your logs.

I am sorry you feel this way, unfortunately if we get charged by BT for the regrade we will have no choice but to pass this on.
/06/2005 09:11:00 Customer Regarding line stability, it is more stable in the past two weeks, although I am finding that it disconnects between 10pm and 11pm. Last night was the worst in the past fortnight. It is still too soon to say whether things have been solved after having two months of constant disruption with large periods where we were unable to connect. Certainly there has been an improvement in the last fortnight but there are still unacceptable periods when I cannot connect like last night.
Secondly, it should be said that the company states the charge is for a MAC code, not a cancellation charge. If it is a cancellation charge, could you let me know what the costs are that are involved to the company. Also I have had not information ever from the company about the fact that I would be charged a cancellation charge if I wanted to move, otherwise I would have thought twice about migrating to you.

08/06/2005 08:45:54 Integrated Systems Fair comment, however with respect of compensation for time offline I cannot look at this until the line is working and we have investigated the reason for this.
In terms of charging for a MAC code, the charge is not for the code itself. This is simply a cancellation charge as a migration happens within days a opposed to the standard notice period which can be as much as 3 months depending on account types. There is no official rulling with regards the migration system and in fact a number of ISP's don't even participate at all. I hope this helps answer your questions.
With regards your connection, are you now finding this to be more stable ?
08/06/2005 01:47:13 Customer I'm sorry but people have supposedly been looking at why I have been offline for now over two months.
If that is not avoiding, then I don't know what is.
And you still don't answer the question of compensation or the question of the MAC code.
That is hardly not avoiding, now is it.
Not avoiding would be to answer.
You don't.
It's quite simple, really.
 
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07/06/2005 10:01:13 Integrated Systems No one is avoiding anything, however for the moment I am trying to concentrate on making sure the connection is remaining stable. If this is the case I will then look at the ime you have spent offline an the reasons behind this. If not we will go round in circles and get none of the issues resolved.
03/06/2005 16:05:11 Customer Thanks
But you continue to avoid the question of compensations for the two months of next to no service.
Ditto my concerns about the cost of providing the MAC code, which I still say I should have been notified about. I certainly never received any terms of conditions from you when I signed up at the start. It appeared in no terms of conditions I saw.
As I keep saying, perhaps you can explain to me how you have worked out this £30 charge. What does it actually pay for? Because for everyone I have spoken to, there is no cost to producing them migration code.
It would be nice to get a response to my points.
03/06/2005 08:30:53 Technical Support Hi Martin,

From your comments and checking your connection log it is apparent your connection is very stable. We will leave this fault as pending until Monday morning at which point we will pick this up again.
02/06/2005 23:07:16 Customer Okay,
While there has been no response from yourselves (once again) it appears that I have been getting a more consistent level of connection in the past few days, more along the lines I had under 512k... at last.
Quite how that has happened, I don't know. Nothing has changed at my end. But forgive me if I remain sceptical until such time this is consistent over a few weeks rather than days.
What I am trying to say is that the service if it continues as it is now is now more acceptable. Perhaps somone can explain why that might be?
However, my point about being compensated for the two months of next to no service remains and I still have had no answer to that.
As does my concerns about the cost of providing the MAC code, which I still say I should have been notified about. I certainly never received any terms of conditions from you when I signed up at the start. It appeared in no terms of conditions I saw.
As I said before, perhaps you can explain to me how you have worked out this £30 charge. What does it actually pay for? Because for everyone I have spoken to, there is no cost to producing them migration code.
It would be nice to get a response to my points.
03/06/2005 08:30:53 Technical Support Hi Martin,

From your comments and checking your connection log it is apparent your connection is very stable. We will leave this fault as pending until Monday morning at which point we will pick this up again.
02/06/2005 23:07:16 Customer Okay,
While there has been no response from yourselves (once again) it appears that I have been getting a more consistent level of connection in the past few days, more along the lines I had under 512k... at last.
Quite how that has happened, I don't know. Nothing has changed at my end. But forgive me if I remain sceptical until such time this is consistent over a few weeks rather than days.
What I am trying to say is that the service if it continues as it is now is now more acceptable. Perhaps somone can explain why that might be?
However, my point about being compensated for the two months of next to no service remains and I still have had no answer to that.
As does my concerns about the cost of providing the MAC code, which I still say I should have been notified about. I certainly never received any terms of conditions from you when I signed up at the start. It appeared in no terms of conditions I saw.
As I said before, perhaps you can explain to me how you have worked out this £30 charge. What does it actually pay for? Because for everyone I have spoken to, there is no cost to producing them migration code.
It would be nice to get a response to my points.
01/06/2005 13:22:23 Technical Support Ticket assigned.
01/06/2005 11:56:43 Customer I repeat once again for the trillionth time, now, I believe.
I want..
1. The service back at 512k when it was working properly, at no extra cost to myself because every provider including BT say my line can
only take up to 512k.
2. Have refunds for not only the two months failure to service but also the upgrade charge.
3. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY Have the MAC code that should be provided free of charge, as it costs the company no money to produce. The whole idea of the code was there to allow
free movement between internet providers, and is supposed to benefit smaller companies. According to Ofcom you cannot refuse it and still you have not responded.

01/06/2005 11:56:33 Customer As I have said, I am not interested in the latest attempt to report this to BT when they say quite clearly to me that my line is not capable of anything about 512k, as others within v21 have acknowledged before. There is no debate.
I will now take legal action against the company as of today to recover the money owed by you because this is a joke of a service, as well as continuing to progress trading standards and Ofcom complaints.
You are leaving me with no option but to also take extreme steps to sort this out now, I have spent two months with a crap service and you guys do not lift a finger to support.
I was never told of any Mac code charge at any time, otherwise I would never have touched v21 with a barge pole.
11:56:43 Customer I repeat once again for the trillionth time, now, I believe.
I want..
1. The service back at 512k when it was working properly, at no extra cost to myself because every provider including BT say my line can
only take up to 512k.
2. Have refunds for not only the two months failure to service but also the upgrade charge.
3. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY Have the MAC code that should be provided free of charge, as it costs the company no money to produce. The whole idea of the code was there to allow
free movement between internet providers, and is supposed to benefit smaller companies. According to Ofcom you cannot refuse it and still you have not responded.
08:31:46 Technical Support Hi Martin,

I have answered your previous queries regarding migrations and the reliability of your connection and have no further comment to make concerning these issues.

We have a fault currently going through with BT (who currently do not believe there is a problem with your line), however we cannot progress this any further without a response to our previous requests for information. The only way we will be able to regrade your line back to a 512kbps service without charge is through BT determining that your line cannot handle a 1mbps service through the fault we have currently open with ADSL Wholesale.

Please do not send any further correspondance through e-mail, these will not be responded too - we can only respond through this secure medium through your Members Area.

I have escalated this ticket to one of my superiors (who is aware of the history concerning your account).

Kind regards
John Moody
31/05/2005 14:18:44 Customer I repeat for the millionth time, it seems, you can read it below, I am only interested in
1. Having the service back at 512k when it was working properly, at no extra cost to myself because every provider including BT say my line can
only take up to 512k.
2. Having refunds for not only the two months failure to service but also the upgrade charge.
3. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY Have the MAC code that should be provided free of charge, as it costs the company no money to produce. The whole idea of the code was there to allow
free movement between internet providers, and is supposed to benefit smaller companies. According to Ofcom you cannot refuse it and still you have not responded.

31/05/2005 14:18:36 Customer V21 is a joke and as a someone who has seen a lot of questionable enterprises, I find your way of doing business absolutely appalling.
You guys cannot give a straight answer.
Avoid all questions, that is the support.
It is as if the last two months did not happen.
I have had one long period when it has not disconnected and millions of other when it has.
That does not indicate it can hold 1mb, as BT and all the other providers tell me.
I am contacting you all the time on both the forum and through email but you do not answer.
I would appreciate it if you did.
The fact it is fine in the past 24 hours fails to take into accoun the past two months. It can be fine for a while then drop big time.
Yes, there is still a problem. You do not answer my messages.
Could you please answer my emails properly and in writing, please.

31/05/2005 13:41:15 Technical Support Hi Martin,

From your logs I can see that you have changed your username as requested. These logs suggest a very stable connection, over 12 hours without break today, this would indicate your line can handle a 1mbps connection reliably.





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31/05/2005 13:38:37 Technical Support Hi Martin,

We are unable to downgrade your line without charge, unless it is determined by BT that your line cannot handle a 1mbps connection through a fault. At the time we placed your order BT believed that your line could handle such a connection (and technically the quality of your line is within limits to support such a service), BT have changed their checker (which other ISPs use to determine whether a service is available) following our fault.

We are unable to provide a MAC number for free, I cannot comment on the actions of other ISPs, however we charge a £30 fee for this code. Migrating to another ISP will not resolve your problems as these issues are on your line, or due to the wiring within your home.

The fault that we have raised to BT confirms that you have been able to make stable connections for many hours at a time since the fault was initially raised, however you are currently using the incorrect username for your account - please ensure you connect with the username so we can log your connection.

Kind regards
John Moody
27/05/2005 18:50:05 Customer Firstly the MAC Code does not cost you £30 to administer. The charge goes completely against the Ofcom Code of Practice.
I keep repeating and you keep not responding.
I am not interested in any fault report quite frankly. Its is supposed to have been done many times before in the past two months and I have had enough.
I repeat enough is enough
I will say this quite clearly again, I want my service back the way it was at 512k, at no expense to my self and that you refund not just the upgrade cost but the monthly payments since the problems began on April 4.
In other words I want it back to 516k as my line cannot cope with 1mb, as has been recognised already by v21, BT and every provider I have contacted.
Secondly I want the MAC code immediately and without cost. I have copied this request to Mr Moody in writing electronically.
I have already contacted Ofcom about this matter.
I trust you will sort this out within the next 24 hours and not continue to avoid the direct questions and requests.
Thanks


27/05/2005 16:47:56 Technical Support Hi Martin,

The charge for the MAC number is an administrative charge, I cannot comment on the policies employed by other ISPs. Migrating to another ISP will not resolve your problem as this issue concerning the poor sync on your line - this problem will be the result of one of three factors:


A fault on your line - we have logged a fault with BT under the asusmption your line cannot reliably handle a 1mbps connection.

A fault with the wiring / connections in your home - you state in your recent e-mail you have tried your connection with your modem connected directly to the master socket with no difference in reliability, which goes some way to discounting this possilbility.

A fault with your modem - this is a possibility, however from experience one tends to find modems either work or they don't, so while this is possible it is perhaps unlikely.

We have a fault proceeding with BT currently and I have escalated this to their Higher Level Complaints team to see if it can be handled more promptly for us. I see you are currently logging in with your username ending @ispnet.com - please change this to end @speeddsl.com so we can see your connection logs with greater ease.

Kind regards

27/05/2005 15:42:07 Customer Secondly, I note that the company has said it would cost me £30 to get a MAC code yet every other provider does not charge for this and I understand it breaks Ofcom rules.
Perhaps you can respond to my request to how that is the case. In other words how does it cost £30 to get a code.
I want the MAC code immediately and without cost. I have copied this request to Mr Moody in writing electronically.
I have already contacted Ofcom about this matter.
I trust you will sort this out within the next 24 hours and not continue to avoid the direct questions and requests.

Thanks

27/05/2005 15:41:45 Customer I have emailed John Moody.
Interesting to see that you do not think the extension is the problem, like John.
I honestly think people are making it up as they go along and really enough is enough after two months of a crap service.
You know fine well I have done tests without the extension. I have removed it completely. It is not in the equation. Has been like that for weeks. As I have said to you and on the contact us section.
And I am not answering the list of questions Mr Moody sent me again, questions that were already answered weeks ago when the problems first occurred. It's just another smoke screen. Another delaying tactic.
I will say this quite clearly again, I want my service back the way it was at 512k, at no expense to my self and that you refund not just the upgrade cost but the monthly payments since the problems began on April 4.
In other words I want it back to 516k as my line cannot cope with 1mb, as has been recognised already by v21, BT and every provider I have contacted.

27/05/2005 15:15:02 Technical Support Hi Martin,

BT have updated their ADSL line checker since we raised a fault to them expressing concerns that your line could not reliably handle such a service. Technically your line has sufficent quality to handle a 1mbps connection, however it is close to the borderline. Our fault to BT may reveal it is possible to provide a reliable 1mbps connection, alternatively if they determin the line will not handle such a service they will down-grade it back with no charge.

We are very keen to get you up and working with a reliable connection once again, and I'm confident this can be done, however we do need to chase this fault with BT in order to resolve your problem. I understand the questionaire is perhaps an inconvenience, but armed with this we will be in a good position to have this resolved very soon.
26/05/2005 11:48:21 Customer John,
I do not accept that it is capable of 1mb, as do BT and every other provider I have consulted.
I have been in contact BT about this and they say it is not.
Having done some investigation, other providers say they could not provide 1mb on my line, because it is incapable of handling.
I think that that is undoubtedly the reason behind the problems, not anything else.
So the position is, as I said that I want my service back the way it was at 512k, at no expense to my self and that you refund not just the upgrade cost but the monthly payments since the problems began.
I am just not going to keep answering the same questions I have already been asked, to be promised that BT will continue to look at it when they, and other providers say that I am only able to have up to 516k.
That is my final position on the matter. I trust you will sort this out within the next 24 hours.

I note that you have not responded to my email of yesterday regarding the position. I am still waiting and I am still getting evening interruptions of service.
I trust that you will.
Secondly, I note that the company has said it would cost me £30 to get a MAC code for possible migration, i stress possible.
Can you let me know what this £30 is for.

18/05/2005 08:26:32 Technical Support The fault we raised with BT was closed after they believed your problem to be resolved. We have re-opened this, however I believe that your line cannot reliably handle a 1mbps service and the best way forward is to re-grade your line back to a 512kbps service (this will likely be the opinion of BT as well after the fault is looked into by them).

Your log however shows long continuous connections of up to 14 hours on the 13th, 14th and 15th without unexpected disconnections. I can see the brief disconnections you refer to on recent days, and during last week; however these problems predominantly occur in the afternoon and evening. I know we have asked you this before, but please can you confirm all devices, which are connected, to your line, and whether you use any extension cables to connect your modem or router – the pattern of disconnections leads me to believe your problem may be due to something within your home as apposed to the quality of your line from your local telephone exchange.

Please feel free to call us on 08702251323 and enter the PIN 5443 when prompted so we can discuss this and work towards restoring your connection.

17/05/2005 14:51:46 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

I note that after a week there has been no response to my previous messages, despite the continual problems I have had.
While I have managed to get some longer connection times in the past week, I am still getting long periods when I cannot connect at all. Yesterday evening was a case in point, when the link light on the modem has continued to flashthroughout the evening.
It seems a waste of time mentioning this here as there has been no response before, but I have taken the matter up with trading standards and if I do not get a swift resolution to this will be taking further legal and regulatory action.
 
13:09:01 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

As you consistently refuse to take any action regarding compensation, can you let me know which independent dispute resolution scheme you are signed up to.
As you should know, the law says that all communications providers have to provide access for their customers to independent dispute resolu tion schemes approved by Ofcom, the communications regulator.


10/05/2005 13:01:06 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

The response is rubbish.
It is irrelevant because it is linked to the previous problems that go back to the start of April
This is in addition to the previous comments made.
It is the same problem recurring, not a new one.
To repeat the same stuff that was repeated at the start is unprofessional and a waste of my time.
Also once again there is no response to compensation.
I will be today contacting Oftel and making legal representations about taking legal action against the company over this.
10/05/2005 12:48:53 Technical Support Hi Martin,

Please see our response to your second message.

Kind regards
08/05/2005 20:09:32 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

With regard to the attached information.
Firstly I have been out of the country for two weeks on holiday. That happens.
I have come back and the problem remains.
The Adsl still cuts off and nothing has change.
Secondly I am disgusted that nothing has been resolved regarding compensation.
I am not paying for a service that is this impaired and will now be taking legal advice.
This is just not good enough, and I would have expected this claim for compensation to have been taken up a long time ago.
The service is no service. It is not good enough to be described as impaired.
I have kept giving the company second chances, but that is it.
You have left me no option but to take legal action and look elsewhere for my internet provision.
The service is a joke. And that is an understatement

Ticket ID: 94570 From: Customer Via: Members Last Entry: 10/05/2005 12:48:12 Closed
Subject: CONT: Router setup information provided
10/05/2005 12:48:12 Technical Support Hi Martin,

This problem will likely be the result of one of three things:


A faulty modem or PC

Something on your line within your house causing interference, possibly an unfiltered phone, fax or sky-box or introduced by an extension cable.

A fault with your BT line.

Please check all phones, faxes, sky-boxes and other devices (including Burglar Alarms) are conencted using line filters. If this is already the case, please try temporarily removing all devices from your line and connect your modem to the main socket through a filter to check whether you can connect.

10/05/2005 00:44:15 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

I note there has been no response to my previous message sent this morning.
It has been six weeks now without a proper broadband service.
Today I have been unable to connect at all as the link light keeps flashing.
 
more

/04/2005 10:26:58 Technical Support With regards to your claim for compensation for the problems you have experienced, please note that such claims are required in writing to our head office:
Account Department
V21.co.uk Limited
59 London Road
Blackwater
Camberley
GU17 0AB
However, I also point you to the Terms and Conditions for the account you signed up for us with; this is displayed to the customer upon signup and the customer is invited to print these for their records. This is from Section 4: V Two One's Obligations:
4.4 You acknowledge that it is technically impracticable to provide the Service free from errors and/or faults and V Two One does not undertake to do so. V Two One shall provide a Helpdesk Facility to enable faults to be reported and resolved but does not warrant that all faults will be corrected.
Through BT we have resolved the fault for you which was present outside of our network and in BT's control to resolve; the fault was first identified to us by yourself on the 6th April and a fault logged with Provisons on the 11th; this was closed by BT on the 20th after resolution by their engineers on the 18th.
20/04/2005 10:20:44 Technical Support This is the latest fault report from BT who have closed this fault having repaired the problem:

Fault Update
Recieved : 10.03 20/04/2005
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Case Notes: BT repaired / replaced jumpering.

Radius logs show that the EU is now having long and stable connections. An email requesting retest results was sent to you on the 18/04 , no response has been received.

Session Domain Name mwill96@speeddsl.com
Session Start Time 20-Apr-2005 03:01:47 (Duration 06:55:20)
Test ID 44939064

Resolution: BT jumpering.
BT believe that you should now be connecting correctly; however if you have further issues, please let us know the details of the fault so we can pass this on for you.
20/04/2005 02:05:05 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

Oh and I have returned home to find that adsl had switched itself off again, so no change there.
I will leave on now 2.05am overnight and see if it manages to make it through.

19/04/2005 21:23:57 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

But as I said in my various emails to v21 yesterday and on this portal, you are still to respond to my demand to be compensated for the fact that I have had an unusable broadband service for the past three weeks.
I think the very least that can be done for the hassle and disruption is that I do not pay for the total period of time that this problem has being going on for. I cannot see how that is anything but reasonable.
As I said, you still have not responded to this, despite continual requests.
If I hear nothing within 24 hours that fails to break this silence, I will take further action to migrate to another service, make a complaint to Oftel, contact trading standards and instute legal action to get back the money owed from lack of service and that paid out for instituting 1mb on my line.
19/04/2005 21:23:39 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

Thank you for the very belated response to the three-week long broadband breakdown that I have suffered.
I cannot yet tell whether the service is back to normal until it is properly operating, although early afternoon I believe it was not switching off. However, there have been very infrequent occasions during the three weeks that it has been stable for five or six hours before cutting off. The norm was ten to 15 mins, which led to the frustrating chain of continual failed connections.
I do hope the matter is sorted. I cannot check the authenticity and consistency of the connection yet, as I am not at home.
But I will when I get home in the early hours of Wednesday morning.
Can you tell me whether the problem in connecting using speeddsl has been sorted, yet. Because i have had to connect using ispnet.com in the past few days due to continuing problems with this second global fault.
19/04/2005 07:10:46 Technical Support Appologies for not replying to this message immediately; I have been awaiting the fault update from BT provisions who suggest that your problem is now resolved.

Fault Update
Recieved : 16:49 18/04/2005
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Case Status: On Hold - Retest Required

Please be advised that the above case has been placed on hold for a maximum duration of 24 HOURS, whilst we await your feedback.

Justification: Please confirm if this is still an issue as our testing reveals successful working session as below:

mwill96@speeddsl.com
Session Start Time 18-Apr-2005 04:09:11 (Duration 12:37:31)

If we do not receive correspondence within the timescale specified, we will assume the fault condition has been resolved and the case will be automatically closed.
BT have noted from their own logs a long session; indeed, our own logs indicate that this particular session lasted for 14 hours, disconnecting last night at the request of your router or modem. I am still unaware what action an engineer took on the 14th, if any - however, from here it appears as if this issue is now resolved.
18/04/2005 22:13:54 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

I am still waiting for this matter to be resolved.
We are heading towards three weeks now.
It should not and does not take that long.
16/04/2005 02:19:13 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

Ah, now there is a novelty the connection has just dropped as seems the norm after about ten minutes on ispnet.com and wont reconnect using the same "PPP link control protocal was terminated" error as with speeddsl.com. Now the speeddsl.com connects but for how long.
This service is worse than a disaster zone.
I am going to have to find another provider this weekend because I see no end to this and if you do not refund my monies I will take the required legal action.

16/04/2005 02:11:35 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

Speeddsl.com still doesn't work. You connect then it drops immediately. Then you get the error message 794: PPP Link Control Protocol Was Terminated.
The personal fault is still not sorted, that keeps cutting out.
Is there every going to be a time when I am going to have a full functioning fault free uncorrupted normal ADSL link?
Because all the excuses have left me exasperated. I will look forward to this matter resolved, including that of compensation for the lack of service which has now stretched to two weeks and two days.
15/04/2005 16:29:56 Technical Support The second - global - fault is looking close to resolution with BT now; I'm confident that BT will have this resolved around 5pm.

With reference to your own problem, I have chased BT provisions for an update and have been told that it is 'with the engineer' - as to what 'the engineer' is currently doing for us, I'm unable to comment. However, I have requested an update at their earliest opportunity and will update you when we are ourselves aware.
15/04/2005 16:20:30 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

That's fine,t hat's two faults for the price of one, but what about the fault I already have. Someone must have sorted out what the problem is.
 
and more

15/04/2005 15:25:57 Technical Support When you connect to the ISP, the first step is to connect to the local BT exchange; from here, you are routed to the relavant network based on your username (ie, @speeddsl.com or @ispnet.com will take you to our network whereas @aol.com will take you to an alternative) - you are then authenticated by our network and thus you are online.

When you disconnect, the session of your connection is cleared at both BT and our authentication servers.

Today however, BT's server is not clearing the session when you disconnect and thus you can't logon again since the session is already in place at BT's end. If it was a problem with our server, we would clear all sessions and it wouldn't be a problem - BT are unable to do this however since it would cause problems for all the other ISP's using their authnetication server at that time.

BT are looking at this currently - this problem should be resolved fairly shortly this afternoon. This problem is affecting a number of ISP's beyond ourselves currently.

15/04/2005 14:55:05 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

Problems are getting worse.
Have not been able to connect at all all day through either speeddsl or ispnet.com. Just managed to break through now through ispnet.com to be able to log this message. Every time there is either a link light flashing or a full link light saying error 718 Connection terminated because remote computer did not respond in timely manner.
What on earth is goingon. Its been two weeks and a day of this and it cannot go on.

Case Status: In Hand with BT

Case Notes: BT have advised that an Engineer has been dispatched to resolve problem, we will inform you when we are made aware of any developments
As we ascertain more, we will update you further about this fault.
14/04/2005 13:01:16 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

Fair, enough.
Let me know what is happening, because although right now I have managed five hours without a break in service, that is a fluke considering the past two weeks.
As for compensating for the service, it is not going to be all a BT matter, it will have something to do with the speed of response by v21.
But either way I am not paying for a non existent service, and it I don't think it is unreasonable to make that claim.
14/04/2005 12:46:47 Technical Support Martin,

Currently, this fault is under investigation by BT's provisioning team; this is where the fault currently stands, as far as we are aware - an update today suggested that this is still the case. In reference to your suggestion that the line should be checked for the potential of being upgradeable to higher line speeds, it is; this is a part of the provisioning steps by BT themselves and is why the line regrade is completed in five working days.

Until BT have completed their diagnostics, it is impossible to comment on as to where the fault lies - if the fault is with BT's equipment or setup then we can investigate the potential of compensation through BT: however, the fault needs to be investigated further before this can be done.

Please ensure your modem is left powered at all times to facilitate the testing of your service from BT.
14/04/2005 12:04:39 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

I am sorry, but you say there are there are no updates from BT beyond what has been suggested already? Nothing has been suggeted.
And if that is the case, we are not going forward and that actually leaves my with zero service, for the past two weeks. A 'service' I pay for advance.
I don't accept it takes two weeks to sort faults.
I feel like I am just being strung along, because BT can check for faults and certainly whether a line is capable of holding 1mb immediately.
They would be able to give a very quick response as to whether the line is suitable. It does not take this length of time and in any case, most internet companies would check that before agreeing to upgrade.
If I don't get this sorted by the end of today, you leave me with absoulutely no option but to go to another provider and seek legal advice about court action about claiming money back from you, as you still won't make any statement about that.
We cannot go for two weeks without a proper internet service, which we pay for in advance.
Just like an electricity company cannot cut you off for two weeks, a gas company cannot cut your supply off for two weeks, Sky cannot cut your tv off for two weeks. Indeed in all cases if there is a problem it would be sorted out swiftly.
Not with yourselves.
I stress again, I notice also that nothing has been said about compensating us for the lack of service.
14/04/2005 08:40:18 Technical Support At time of typing, there are no updates from BT beyond what has been suggested already; however, in answer to your query regarding message length, this is set to 1500 characters; this is generally enough for a customer to post their problem and error messages or for our reply. This limit is set to prevent firstly problems with the customer database which stores all events for all customers (going back before 2002) and also to prevent verbose explainations of the problem which can make providing an answer difficult.

As you no doubt realise, you can append to an existing ticket with further notes if you wish to.
13/04/2005 22:32:52 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

Can I suggest, then, that if you are looking for complex lengthy responses on here, that you get rid of the character restriction, so that you don't end up having to cut and paste three separate messages, when really one would do.
13/04/2005 14:09:23 Technical Support Take a look at the bottom of the email; it is suggested that answers are required via the members area. We request this so that all customer notes and events can be tracked by all staff at any location.

Currently, this is still in hand with BT; as we obtain further information about this fault, we will update you directly.
13/04/2005 14:01:22 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

It's very odd that you don't check for responses to emails you sent out.
All I did was reply to one you sent me, seems senseless that nobody checks for those replies.
But then I have not been impressed with much regarding problem resolving as it is now two weeks without a workingv broadband service and we are only now getting down to progressing any fault finding.
13/04/2005 10:37:25 Technical Support Although not an address that is commonly checked, I was able to find your update to the suggested questions within the 'connections' mailbox; I have already forwarded this to provisions and we have recieved confirmation that they are investigating this further within their provisioning team.

As we recieve further updates, we'll pass these onto you directly
 
13/04/2005 10:02:52 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

I have already sent the answers to the questions here, as I have already said, by email. You already have them as my log shows that the message was received.
As there appears to be more difficulty in handling that, I will attach the email in this forum, bearing in mind that it has to be sent in about three sections as it cannot handle complex communications such as this.


--------- Original Message --------
From: "Mwill96"
To: "Connections"
Subject: Re: ADSL Fault Update - 123597
Date: 12/04/05 14:28

Answers to questions are recorded after the questions below.



--------- Original Message --------
From: Connections
To: 'mwill96@nildram.co.uk'
Cc: 'mwill96@v21net.co.uk'
Subject: ADSL Fault Update - 123597
Date: 12/04/05 09:07

>
> ADSL Home 1000 | 123597 | Williams, Martin
> ADSL CLI - 01416420422
> FAULT ID - 00004464
>
> Dear Mr Williams,
>
> Recently we have logged a fault with Provisions for you in reference to
your
> ADSL line fault; in order to escalate this further, please refer to the
> following email from Faults:
>
> Case Update: In order to progress this case, please answer in full
> the below BT intermittent connection questions.
>
> Please note this case will be placed on hold for a maximum duration
> of 3 WORKING DAYS, whilst we await your feedback.

13/04/2005 10:01:48 Technical Support Fault Update
09:58 13/04/2005
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Case Status: Escalated to BT - End User Faults.

Case Notes: We have logged a fault report to BT Provisions and will advise you of the outcome in due course.

Please ensure that the End User leaves all equipment connected and powered up for the duration of the fault to allow Provisions to perform remote testing.

11/04/2005 10:29:24 Technical Support Hi Martin,

This problem will likely be the result of one of three things:


A faulty modem or PC

Something on your line within your house causing interference, possibly an unfiltered phone, fax or sky-box or introduced by an extension cable.

A fault with your BT line.

Please check all phones, faxes, sky-boxes and other devices (including Burglar Alarms) are conencted using line filters. If this is already the case, please try temporarily removing all devices from your line and connect your modem to the main socket through a filter to check whether you can connect.

However the fact that this problem has only recently started following your line upgrade I would imagine the fault is not with your internal connections or with your equipment. Line quality is important for ADSL to work reliably, and the quality must be higher for 1mbps services than is required for 512kbps service. It is possible your line cannot handle a 1mbps service; BT should be able to identify if this is the case when they look into this problem for us.

Kind regards

09/04/2005 04:25:45 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

It is now 4.25am on Saturday and have come downstairs once again to find that the internet connection failed again.
08/04/2005 22:23:52 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

It is now 22.20 and for the past two plus hours there has been no connection because the link light keeps flashing. And lo and behold.. no response.
I am beginning to think that logging these faults on here is a waste of time and that this service is the same.

08/04/2005 19:35:18 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

It is now 19.35 and the connection has dropped four times. And still there is no response
08/04/2005 18:37:46 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

It is now 18.35 on the Friday and the service was once again interrputed overnight and when I have just returned it has again switched off and worse, there has been absolutely no communication about how v21 is going to sort this out despite all the messages I have left here.
I am disgusted and I am being left with no option but to find another provider.
Can you please tell me what is going on.
08/04/2005 00:46:41 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

It is now just after midnight and I have checked to see if the connection is still up and, no, it has crashed again.
So no change. Can someone please sort out as I am getting zero service.
07/04/2005 20:40:33 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

It is not 20.40 and the service continues to cut out. So clearly nothing is being done to rectify this.
If this is the 1MB upgrade, it is clearly just not good enough.
07/04/2005 18:27:14 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

The service has continue to be interrupted when I tested this evening from 6pm.
Due to the continuous cutting off of service that has now lasted over a week, I would wish some kind of compensation for not having a proper service over that period of time.
Bearing in mind I could not access the service at all for the whole of Thursday morning and Friday of last week and you have the details of the service being completely cut because neither ispnet.com or speeddsl.com were working on one particular day
I would suggest that I get a free week as a result of this. You could do this by putting back by a week the time you collect the next subscription.
But as I said to the telephone operator today my next step will reluctantly be to transfer to another provider because firstly, it is not being sorted out, secondly I am not getting the responses I should be getting from customer services/technical support via this forum.
07/04/2005 17:00:48 Customer Services Note from Customer Services:

User has had an intemittant connection, although if a line issue is more likely to be as a result of the upgrade to 1mb. User is connecting with @speeddsl.com which was dropping yesterday however remained connected through the night.
06/04/2005 23:01:34 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

The internet connection does not stay constant for more than ten minutes at the moment.
06/04/2005 20:14:17 Customer CONT: Router setup information provided

As I said earlier today, neither the ispnet.com or the speeddsl.com usernames were working and I had no access at all from midnight tonight.
The password change suggested by v21 in the phone call earlier has worked after i tried it this evening.
I am now able to connect with the speeddsl.com user name.
However the connection keeps does not stay constant for very long and keeps dropping.
Can you let me know what you are going to do to sort this problem out as soon as possible as I have become fed up with all the problems that I have had in the past week.

12/04/2005 10:13:19 Technical Support Closed.
12/04/2005 10:13:19 Technical Support EU is not contactable by phone on any contact numbers listed; have replied to tickets and left messages on VM
12/04/2005 09:25:12 Customer Services Eu is having problems since the regrade. Can we please downgrade to undo the regrade
 
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Guy's,the best and cheapest way to get this lot off your line is thus:-step 1,CANCEL your debit/credit card once they have taken the months payment,this three months BS is new to me and i would simply ignore it-i doubt it would stand in court. You can get ADSL ceased on your line if V21 refuse to give you a MAC by changing the account name with BT.Telefonic would also give amAC for FREE(V21's old network provider) but they have since ben brought out(can't think why :rolleyes: ) so i donlt know what the deal is with Netservices-worth a phone call anyway.Then it's a case of signing up again with any half decent ISP :rolleyes: Still no respose from "V21support" i see-disappeared again? Hoping it will all go away? It won't,you lot will fold before complaints like this go away!! So stand up and answer the questions. Looks like you have at least three proceedings going through the small claims court! The more cases you have against you the worse it looks,maybe you will soon learn that you can't keep changing T&C's to suit yourselves!! Maybe we should start writing/visiting the directors of V21? The info is readily available at companies house,or will you threaten to "phone tyhe police" like you did when i suggested we meet up to discuss the matter?! Thing is,you could kil two birds with one stone as you coukd then tell the Police about this fraud i have committed hence your £80 charge!! You people are a joke. All this bad press must be costing you deraly,if you are a genuine company would it not be better to sort this out once and for all? Thing is,as stated on your OWN forums,payment dates seem to be coming forward for your subscribers(yes,i still have access to your forums-dispite you trying to block my accounts!! Fools) -trying to get as much £££ before the colapse??
 
v21 is one of a number of backshed isps which will never make it big time, they try and try but eventually they will fold, hopefully sooner rather than later. Look at Gio, centralpoint, they will all be gone very soon, hopefully leaving us with a decent provider.
 
I would suggest that V21 customers who are adversely affected by changes to their terms and conditions seek legal advice before taking any action that might possibly put them in breach of contract. Trading Standards will give free advice and can be contacted here :- http://www.consumercomplaints.org.uk/index.asp
This website is a free online service, which allows you to make a consumer complaint to your local Trading Standards Service concerning any consumer problem you feel should be investigated or where you need advice.

By using this service you will receive free professional assistance with regard to your problem. You will also be protecting other consumers and helping to improve standards of trade.
 
veryrichguy said:
v21 is one of a number of backshed isps which will never make it big time, they try and try but eventually they will fold, hopefully sooner rather than later. Look at Gio, centralpoint, they will all be gone very soon, hopefully leaving us with a decent provider.

Can I ask you to not post anything that you cannot prove to call a company a backshed ISP without proof could be classed as libelous...
 
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