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Virgin moving from RFoG to G/XGS PON?

Matt.Rowley.1990

Top Member
I’m still not sure whether to believe this or not but I’m selling my house and the people moving into it are moving over their existing contract.

We live in a project lighting build area, so had RFoG based installations. The people from Kelly who have just turned up have said they have literally just switched over to full fibre and will not be running any coax at the wall termination. I was pushing them hard to get some coax to install for the new owners but they wouldn’t budge, insisting it is now fibre all the way to the hub.

Is this really the case? I’ve not heard of areas mixing RFoG and PON based fibre setups on Virgin. Surely this is a mistake and I’m being fed rubbish?

Matt
 
Okay, so I finally got an answer that made sense out of the guy.

They’re still doing RFoG but they’re changing the demarcation point. The conversion from fibre to coax is no longer happening on the outside of the property; it is getting converted back to coax within a few inches of the hub.

So the externally mounted box simply has a fibre coupler which connects to a fibre that will run through the house and to the indoor coax media converter.

Same thing, different deployment.
 
Thanks for reporting on this. I thought some RFoG installs already did the conversion inside the building, maybe not a few inches from the hub, but within the bounds of the internal network.

It's stupid they are still doing this, but at least this type of install will be very easy to convert to full fibre.

What I'm confused about is, according to recent ISPReview articles they are already selling PON products via Nexfibre and they have the Hub 5x with the fibre port. But I have not seen any actual reports, videos or reviews of Virgin's FTTP service. Are they actually selling it now? Does anyone have it?
 
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Thanks for reporting on this. I thought some RFoG installs already did the conversion inside the building, maybe not a few inches from the hub, but within the bounds of the internal network.

It's stupid they are still doing this, but at least this type of install will be very easy to convert to full fibre.

What I'm confused about is, according to recent ISPReview articles they are already selling PON products via Nexfibre and they have the Hub 5x with the fibre port. But I have not seen any actual reports, videos or reviews of Virgin's FTTP service. Are they actually selling it now? Does anyone have it?
Yes, XGS PON based services are live in some areas, especially where they’re deploying via PIA. That being said, I believe the packages are identical, so there’s literally no benefit (other than perhaps latency, but TBC on routing) having your service deployed via alternative methods. It feels that for the moment, they’re unifying offerings against what they can deliver using DOCSIS. I’m sure a time will come when they branch out and start delivering more traditional looking PON based speeds/service.
 
Yes, XGS PON based services are live in some areas, especially where they’re deploying via PIA. That being said, I believe the packages are identical, so there’s literally no benefit (other than perhaps latency, but TBC on routing) having your service deployed via alternative methods. It feels that for the moment, they’re unifying offerings against what they can deliver using DOCSIS. I’m sure a time will come when they branch out and start delivering more traditional looking PON based speeds/service.
I guess it makes sense from a business perspective, Openreach is doing the same.
 
Okay, so I finally got an answer that made sense out of the guy.

They’re still doing RFoG but they’re changing the demarcation point. The conversion from fibre to coax is no longer happening on the outside of the property; it is getting converted back to coax within a few inches of the hub.

So the externally mounted box simply has a fibre coupler which connects to a fibre that will run through the house and to the indoor coax media converter.

Same thing, different deployment.
Thanks, I was wondering how it would work and you have now covered. I kinda makes sense as it can indeed be upgraded easily to full fibre. Is yours a new install? I presume they will not bother upgrade existing customers with this half-baked setup? Even though they call it "full fibre" we all know it's not really "full fibre" so what's the point in changing to fibre and still use coaxial inside the home?
 
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Thanks, I was wondering how it would work and you have now covered. I kinda makes sense as it can indeed be upgraded easily to full fibre. Is yours a new install? I presume they will not bother upgrade existing customers with this half-baked setup? Even though they call it "full fibre" we all know it's not really "full fibre" so what's the point in changing to fibre and still use coaxial inside the home?
Especially now that they have a hub with a built-in ONT and are actually offering XGS-PON to some customers. But I think those are all on Nexfibre. Maybe for the HFC customers they are now doing this because they're not ready yet to turn on XGS-PON on that network, but when they do, they want it to be plug and play.

So they'll just send those customers the new hub and say get rid of the media converter and the coax and just plug the fibre directly into the hub, don't even need to send an engineer.

But they're still dragging their feet, I honestly don't see them offering full fibre to 100% of their network by 2028 when they haven't even technically started yet on the HFC network.
 
Thanks, I was wondering how it would work and you have now covered. I kinda makes sense as it can indeed be upgraded easily to full fibre. Is yours a new install? I presume they will not bother upgrade existing customers with this half-baked setup? Even though they call it "full fibre" we all know it's not really "full fibre" so what's the point in changing to fibre and still use coaxial inside the home?
This is a new install, as we’re currently with community fibre and the people buying our house wanted to retain their VM contract. As it turns out, they’re now going to stick with community fibre, as they’re allowing me to leave the ONT and Velop for the new owners to use! Simply a change of contract on the day of exchange. If only all providers were that flexible…

Anyway, with regards to Virgin, the bloke from Kelly claimed that they switched to installing the media converter inside as they were failing ah high rates when installed externally. I’m not sure I believe this but he said there were instances of engineers getting electrocuted, as they’re back-fed from a power injector. They can’t be more than 12v, so I’m not buying that. I do think there could be some truth in the switch enabling an easier migration to PON later down the line. After all, they’d be in a position where the end user only needs to have the hub switched out and the media converter removed. Certainly easier than running a new fibre from the outside of the property.
 
Anyway, with regards to Virgin, the bloke from Kelly claimed that they switched to installing the media converter inside as they were failing ah high rates when installed externally. I’m not sure I believe this but he said there were instances of engineers getting electrocuted, as they’re back-fed from a power injector. They can’t be more than 12v, so I’m not buying that. I do think there could be some truth in the switch enabling an easier migration to PON later down the line. After all, they’d be in a position where the end user only needs to have the hub switched out and the media converter removed. Certainly easier than running a new fibre from the outside of the property.
Yeah it's BS, 12v 3.6W will barely scratch your tonge. Here is the media converter:

large
 
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This is a new install, as we’re currently with community fibre and the people buying our house wanted to retain their VM contract. As it turns out, they’re now going to stick with community fibre, as they’re allowing me to leave the ONT and Velop for the new owners to use! Simply a change of contract on the day of exchange. If only all providers were that flexible…

Anyway, with regards to Virgin, the bloke from Kelly claimed that they switched to installing the media converter inside as they were failing ah high rates when installed externally. I’m not sure I believe this but he said there were instances of engineers getting electrocuted, as they’re back-fed from a power injector. They can’t be more than 12v, so I’m not buying that. I do think there could be some truth in the switch enabling an easier migration to PON later down the line. After all, they’d be in a position where the end user only needs to have the hub switched out and the media converter removed. Certainly easier than running a new fibre from the outside of the property.
Although the Boostral boxes are sealed and IP rated, they will doubtless have an easier life inside rather than outside - especially long term.

Having a wander around some inner city areas in London and it’s pretty common to see the old Cable London now VM wall boxes smashed open, no cover and the tap / splitter just hanging in free space, dangling by the coax. Perfect height for dogs to mark their territory and folks to kick with their feet as they pass. It’s little wonder there isn’t more RF ingress and crap on the cable segments.
 
Although the Boostral boxes are sealed and IP rated, they will doubtless have an easier life inside rather than outside - especially long term.

Having a wander around some inner city areas in London and it’s pretty common to see the old Cable London now VM wall boxes smashed open, no cover and the tap / splitter just hanging in free space, dangling by the coax. Perfect height for dogs to mark their territory and folks to kick with their feet as they pass. It’s little wonder there isn’t more RF ingress and crap on the cable segments.
Yeah seen that too but those RF splitters are “passive” and got no active electronics unlike the RFoG splitter. So they can tolerate a lot heat and abuse I think.
 
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Yeah seen that too but those RF splitters are “passive” and got no active electronics unlike the RFoG splitter. So they can tolerate a lot heat and abuse I think.
They will yes, but more’s the point about the decaying state of the 30 year old cable infra.
 
Having a wander around some inner city areas in London and it’s pretty common to see the old Cable London now VM wall boxes smashed open, no cover and the tap / splitter just hanging in free space, dangling by the coax
Living in a newish RFoG area it's kind of the same... so many of these boxes are exposed now. Even on my own house, the box had (I assume, the placement is not somewhere you'd have people walking) expanded in the heat and opened itself, a lot of people have not attempted to put them back together.

Just wow...
 
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