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What happens to my landline if I switch to 4G/5G broadband?

Steve1980

Regular Member
I live in a London flat and currently have ADSL broadband. No one will offer me a fibre service - I know we don't have FTTP, I thought FTTC might be an option but every ISP I try refuses to sell me any kind of fibre service. It was the same a year ago the last time my ADSL contract renewed as well.

I don't need super fast broadband but I'm sick of paying pretty much the same price as fibre services for ADSL speeds. I'm thinking about switching to 4G/5G broadband - probably Three's unlimited service with a 24 month contract at £12/month for the first six months then £24/month afterwards. I see I can get a 30 day money back guarantee from Three so I can try this and see if the speeds are actually OK before my ADSL contract expires in about a month.

What really concerns me is what's going to happen to my physical copper landline when there is no active phone/broadband contract on it? If FTTC/FTTP is available in two years' time, or I just want to switch back to ADSL for some reason, am I going to be told I have to pay £140 to install a new line, or even that I simply can't have one? Do I risk my flat being excluded from FTTP installation (if/when that happens) because it doesn't have an active phone line? That kind of thing. I am on the top floor of a small purpose-built block so my phone cable snakes through the interior of the building and if the connection gets "lost" somehow it could be a nightmare trying to have a replacement cable installed to physically connect my flat again.

Am I likely to be hit with some kind of disconnection fee when my ADSL contract expires and I tell them I don't want any service of any kind any more? I'm with Shell at the moment FWIW.

(I don't care about losing phone service on the landline or losing my phone number - I use my mobile for everything anyway.)

Any advice would be appreciated, I've tried to research this but haven't found much concrete information so far. Thanks!
 
If you port your phone number over to VOIP. When the switch is complete your copper line will be dead afterwards.

I suspect a lot of people have been doing this so ISPs would be used to this occurring.

If you decide you want to take up FTTC or ADSL in the future, a lot of ISPs allow you to setup a new phone number for your house during the sign up process (you see the option saying keep my existing number or create a new one). They would just use your existing copper connection and issue you a new phone number when you sign up with them.

FTTP rollout has nothing to do with the copper line as they need to install new Fibre cables to your house to get this alongside a brand ONT on the wall.

I would say in the meantime, if you can get 5G in your property this is significantly faster than FTTC. And often significantly cheaper too.

You can get an unlimited smarty sim for £12 per month. And with this get around 150mb/s (Or at least this is what I get through them).

Compare this to FTTC where you often pay about £25/month for 40mb/s.
 
Thanks very much for the response, Anth!
If you port your phone number over to VOIP. When the switch is complete your copper line will be dead afterwards.
I don't suppose it matters, but I have been assuming I will just give up my phone number completely rather than porting it. Either way I guess the copper line is dead.

Do you know where my copper line would be disconnected? Is there a physical disconnection in a cabinet in the street, or is this just a question of some electronic equipment no longer routing anything to/from my copper line but it's still electrically connected? It's maybe silly but I have this vision of the line getting disconnected and then everyone refusing to acknowledge it exists and telling me I need to have a new physical copper line installed in the future.

(A few years ago I switched from one ADSL provider to another at the end of my contract, something I had done many times before with no issues. This time somehow things got messed up in the transfer and an engineer had to come out and do something with the master socket inside my flat and outside in the street in order to get my line working again. This made no sense to me as I'd have assumed it was just a question of fixing a misconfiguration in some management system somewhere, but it's this kind of thing that makes me worry about "losing" my landline if it isn't under contract. I appreciate the physical copper won't just evaporate, but it feels like it could fall through the cracks in whatever system manages connections.)
FTTP rollout has nothing to do with the copper line as they need to install new Fibre cables to your house to get this alongside a brand ONT on the wall.
This is interesting. I had been assuming - I know next to nothing about FTTP, since I don't have it - that in a block of flats there would be some equipment installed in a communal part of the block and the existing copper connections would be used internally (a bit like really short distance FTTC, with the "cabinet" inside the block instead of somewhere out in the street). If it doesn't work like that, FTTP sounds like a nightmare which is going to involve ripping up all my walls and floors to install new cables, but I guess I'll have to cross that bridge when I come to it.
You can get an unlimited smarty sim for £12 per month. And with this get around 150mb/s (Or at least this is what I get through them).
I had a quick look on their website and the best I can see is Data Only Unlimited at £20/month, unfortunately. But this is still cheaper than Three over the 24 month contract, and I do like the idea of not being locked in to a 24 month contract. And it is good to see smarty explicitly state "unlimited tethering" is allowed. Three are sweetening the deal with a free router, but I guess I could buy my own - definitely something I'd need to research, although the 5G routers on amazon.co.uk look a bit scarily priced. I assume if I'm restricted to 4G my speeds are not going to be so good and staying with ADSL might be the better bet.
 
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If you are considering 4G or 5G mobile broadband (temporary or permanent) then you need to ascertain what signal you will get (direct or reflected) and from which providers which may mean getting PAYG SIM for a month from the main suppliers and testing.

Some flats may be lucky (right side of the block) and others may be obscured.

Use the coverage maps on https://bidb.uk/ as a guide to what providers are likely and the density may indicate direction. A walk round the area can identify masts and then there is Cellmapper.

Although you appear to have mobile phone service currently you will presumably want to achieve the best and reliable speed.

Ceasing the ADSL contract will "disconnect" the telephone service so the order would be:
1) Test mobile broadband potential
2) Select mobile option (own router/SIM or provider package)
3) Port number to VoIP provider (only if you want to retain number)
4) Cease ADSL

Some 4G/5G routers support VoLTE (use minutes on the SIM - mobile number)
Some 4G/5G routers support VoIP (3rd party VoIP provider - landline number)
If these are not supported then VoIP can be provided by using an ATA connected to your router. You will need to decide whether you want to retain a "fixed" voice service or just use mobiles.

The future interest by FTTP providers will vary enormously depending on the structure of your flats, owned/rented, landlord/management type, wayleave/permissions and what FTTP providers are present.

Ideally residents or a landlord would block wire (fibre or Ethernet) to a central point ready to pick up network service. However as we have seen recently, business models for this aren't working as ISPs don't appear to want to provide their service this way and wholesale providers are interpreting FTTP to be FTTH with a discrete service and an individual ONT in each home.

For most blocks small or large it will probably require a threshold for a FTTP provider to come into the flats. If residents cancel their existing copper services this threshold may be more difficult to achieve. Realistically I cannot see the overbuild that we will see in the street and therefore most MDUs are likely to become dependent on a single FTTP network or wholesaler.

As you outline there are options to provide broadband over the existing telephone block wiring but none of the current providers appear to be adopting these as it would be regarded as interim and will not support their long term products as well as introducing additional complexity to service/support.

If its possible can you canvas/discuss with other residents regarding attracting an FTTP provider or possibly a communal approach to mobile broadband with antenna/cpe on the roof?
 
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I had a quick look on their website and the best I can see is Data Only Unlimited at £20/month, unfortunately. But this is still cheaper than Three over the 24 month contract, and I do like the idea of not being locked in to a 24 month contract. And it is good to see smarty explicitly state "unlimited tethering" is allowed. Three are sweetening the deal with a free router, but I guess I could buy my own - definitely something I'd need to research, although the 5G routers on amazon.co.uk look a bit scarily priced. I assume if I'm restricted to 4G my speeds are not going to be so good and staying with ADSL might be the better bet.
Look on a website like Uswitch. They have promotional offers cheaper than going direct. Smarty (Owned by Three) generally have a £15 unlimited rolling deal there. TalkMobile (Owned by Vodafone) often have a £16 one too, if they are better for signal/speed where you are.

As for routers, places like CeX, CGX, Cash Converters and Cash Generator are the kind of places to look. 5G Routers are often available here for a more sensible price and come with a warranty still. Something like a ZyXEL NR5103E or ZTE MC801A/MC888 Would be a safe option.

Also your 'free router' remains the property of Three Broadband. So you're just loaning it. Don't assume you'll get to keep it afterwards or anything.

If you were restriced to 4G You would likely have lower speeds and higher latency than 5G, But that doesn't necessarily mean it would be the same as or worse than ADSL. Where I live ADSL is just a few Mbps and ~35ms ping. EE's 4G Network in the same place can give me over 100Mb with the same latency. But obviously 5G is consistently going to be a better experience in more places where available.

This is interesting. I had been assuming - I know next to nothing about FTTP, since I don't have it - that in a block of flats there would be some equipment installed in a communal part of the block and the existing copper connections would be used internally (a bit like really short distance FTTC, with the "cabinet" inside the block instead of somewhere out in the street). If it doesn't work like that, FTTP sounds like a nightmare which is going to involve ripping up all my walls and floors to install new cables, but I guess I'll have to cross that bridge when I come to it.
FTTP Is generally fibre all the way into your residence. Your old copper line will play no part in this new connection. With a very old telephone wire, you would lose a lot of speed over a relatively short distance. It's just not designed to carry it. You're going to be looking at a somewhat messy and/or destructive installation process to distribute it through your building when the time comes. But I suspect it will mostly involve drilling holes and clipping to walls, rather than demolishing walls and pulling up floorboards.
 
Am I likely to be hit with some kind of disconnection fee when my ADSL contract expires and I tell them I don't want any service of any kind any more? I'm with Shell at the moment FWIW.

We were also with Shell when we switched to Three 4G over two years ago. There is (was?) an Openreach "cease fee" of around £31 for disconnecting the phone line but not many people get charged - we weren't. Also it's the withdrawal of a service so they can't charge VAT on that.

Our landline was mostly unused as we had a "house mobile" on 1p Mobile for several years before we disconnected.

Knowing what I know now I would have started with:
  • a secondhand Sercomm LTR2122GR I bought this one
  • test it over a month with (e.g.) a £20 unlimited data bundle from iD Mobile
  • if the trial was OK, follow with a 12 month unlimited Three SIM via Moneysavingexpert an FOnehouse £11.42/month after automatic cashback (click "show all deals", "unlimited data")

I gave my daughter our original Three 4G router and she did the month test on iD Mobile then bought the Three 12 month contract back in December.

I'm now on a prepaid Scancom data-only SIM until November 2026 (500GB/month works out at £4.70/month). The Three network has been down for maybe two days in over two years. Our house mobile on RWG/EE network has 2GB of data each month so I can pop that in to do essential email/banking for a few days if ever required.
 
Thanks guys, this is really helpful. It looks like my options are roughly:
  • Put up with being overcharged for ADSL for another year or two, at which point FTTP may be available to me. ADSL is probably going to work out at about £20/month over a 12 month contract.
  • Go with Three's 24 month deal and pay slightly over the odds but have an all-in-one package and the ability to try it for 30 days free. This also gives me a single supplier to complain to if it doesn't work, rather than the mobile ISP blaming it on my third party router and washing their hands of me. This works out at £21/month over a 24 month contract. (Plus the mid-contract price rise, sigh.)
  • Buy a second-hand 5G router from someone like CEX for £110-ish, get myself a Smarty unlimited SIM on a £15/month rolling contract via uSwitch and try it out - but if it doesn't work, I'll have to sell the router on for a loss. But if this works out, over a 24 month period it's about £20/month, I own a router at the end of it and I'm able to walk away at any point, e.g. if my landlord decides to push FTTP installation or if a better mobile broadband option comes along.
I'll be honest, the whole business makes me edgy. It just feels like I'm going to get shafted somewhere - primarily if I need/want to switch back to ADSL in six months' time and don't have an active line. I picture the conversation with ISP after ISP:
  • "Sorry, we only offer ADSL to existing customers, it is being phased out. And you can't get fibre, so we can't offer you any kind of service."
  • "Yes, we offer ADSL, but I'm sorry, there is no copper to your premises and it is being phased out so we won't install a new line.
  • "Yes, you can have ADSL. That will be a £200 reconnection fee, please."
Logically there's no reason this should happen, but that doesn't mean it won't, especially as my situation (unable to get fibre) becomes increasingly rare.

If I'm actually happy with 4G/5G wireless broadband then it's not going to be an issue, of course. But sticking with ADSL and stomaching the rather sickening prices feels like the safe bet, which sucks - I'd really like to tell the ADSL providers to get knotted, as they seem to be taking advantage of my inabillity to get fibre to charge through the nose. (I would have hoped that for the moment they would sell me FTTC service, but I am not sure that's even a thing any more, and certainly no one seems willing to offer it to me. This is strange, as some family members got FTTC only recently, but it is what it is.)

It is seriously tempting to go for the DIY 4G/5G option - I think I'm in with a chance of getting 5G where I live too, so this is potentially both cheaper and way faster than ADSL. A map I checked shows a mixture of 5G indoor+outdoor and 5G outdoor only in my area, and I am on a high floor and I'd hope coverage will improve over time. It just feels like a gamble where I could be stuck with no working internet for the next couple of years.
 
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Not quite the same situation as you, but it might be relevant - when we bought this house it had been empty for many months, maybe a year. There was a phone line connected, but no-one was paying for any service on it (voice or internet).

Because we had to do the house up before we could move in, we lived in a caravan on the drive for quite a while and we used Three 4G broadband. Speeds were comparable with FTTC and it was a perfectly usable service - so much so that we continued with it for more than a year after moving into the house.

At that point Three began upgrading the local network, and it became unrelaible while the work was going on. That prompted me to sign up for FTTC. We did not have to pay any installation fee - we just plugged in the router and away it went. By the time we did that, the line had not been used or paid for for about three years.

We're now on FTTP. :)
 
  • Buy a second-hand 5G router from someone like CEX for £110-ish, get myself a Smarty unlimited SIM on a £15/month rolling contract via uSwitch and try it out - but if it doesn't work, I'll have to sell the router on for a loss. But if this works out, over a 24 month period it's about £20/month, I own a router at the end of it and I'm able to walk away at any point, e.g. if my landlord decides to push FTTP installation or if a better mobile broadband option comes along.

No, when people said try it out they meant try out the sim card. There are multiple 5G providers.

Smarty use Three. There is also O2, EE and Vodafone. It is just a case of in each area one ISP seems to offer the best speeds and it's often the case of trying multiple ones till you find the one that is best in your area.

Also if you buy the 5G router from CEX online you get 7 days distance selling laws. This means you can try it out. And if you get dreadful service you can return the router to your local store for a full refund (as long as you do it within 7 days).

You cannot do this if you buy the router in-store only if you buy it online from their website.

It's worth mentioning there are often extensive delays when it comes to FTTP rollout. If they are saying it will be available in a years time. I would take that with a pinch of salt as both CityFibre and Grain said that. And I needed to add an extra 6 months onto CityFibres estimate and an additional 14 months onto Grains.

If you currently are on only ADSL the difference you will get from switching 5G is like the jump when going from VHS to UHD to watch a movie. It will be a huge increase.
 
Personally I would go with:

  • Buy a second-hand 5G router from someone like CEX for £110-ish, get myself a Smarty unlimited SIM on a £15/month rolling contract via uSwitch and try it out - but if it doesn't work, I'll have to sell the router on for a loss. But if this works out, over a 24 month period it's about £20/month, I own a router at the end of it and I'm able to walk away at any point, e.g. if my landlord decides to push FTTP installation or if a better mobile broadband option comes along.

But - I would test your 5G service by using the SIM in your phone first (hopefully you have a 5G phone... just use hotspot to your devices). You may even find that if you don't get 5G in your area anyway you can get a much cheaper 4G router (although you might want to get a 5G one in case 5G does come avaliable down the line). Then you will be sure the basic service works before even investing in the router, if it doesn't you've only lost 1 month's service.

As long as you get signal the speeds are almost certainly going to be better even in the worst conditions.

You won't really take much of a loss on the router if you sell if privately (even if you don't use eBay you'll probably get more for it on Facebook Marketplace than selling it back to Cex etc). And if you realise immediately it doesn't work you will be able to return it anyway and take no loss/only loss of postage costs.

You can keep your ADSL running for a bit at least initially, obviously too.

Additionally once you have got things set up you could have your plan on your phone with another network which would provide an immediate backup in the case your local Three mast has an outage (which is pretty rare but not unheard of).
 
Thanks guys, this is all really helpful and reassuring.

I don't have a 5G phone but I think I will take advantage of the distance selling rules to buy a 5G router from CEX and use that for testing with - it looks like I actually get 14 days to return it, not just 7. There is a CEX shop not far from me but I will mail order to get the extra time.

I appreciate there are different networks but the Smarty offer looks one of the cheapest and a good place to start. I'll make sure to get an unlocked router - I see CEX have the ZTE MC888 at £120 unlocked, so I'll probably go for that. (The £110 price I saw before was for one locked to 3, which I guess might work with Smarty, but would stop me trying other networks later - better just to spend the extra tenner and be done with it.)

I also have an iD mobile SIM in my phone which uses the Three network and is supposed to be 5G capable, so I guess I can put that temporarily in the 5G router to test the 5G signal before signing up with Smarty's rolling contract.

I can't believe people are buying routers off ebay for the same or more as CEX are selling them with a two year warranty. Then again, I guess I wouldn't have known to check CEX unless I'd been told to on here! :-)
 
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If you switch to 4G/5G broadband, your copper landline will likely be deactivated, but you can usually get a new phone number and reconnect if you switch back to ADSL or another service in the future.
 
Thanks Turbo25, this is reassuring. Especially since I've now done some speed tests with my new router and iD Mobile SIM and I seem to be getting >400Mbit/s download and >60Mbit/s upload. Compare that with about 18 down and 1 up on my ADSL when it's feeling chipper, or 8/0.3 right now when it's in a sulk. So I am definitely going to give this a try.

It did connect at 4G speeds once or twice, but even that wasn't much worse than the sulky ADSL speeds, and I suspect that was due to me having the router in a bad position. Certainly worth taking a punt on a Smarty SIM for a month or two...
 
I did this. Router from CEX and Smarty unlimited SIM - has tripled my download speed (compared to FTTC) and improved upload speed by an even greater degree. You may need to experiment a bit with where you position the router to get the best signal. Mine works exceptionally well in one particular spot next to a window (and even better with the window open!).
 
Thanks jguk1! I got my Smarty SIM today and it's working pretty well. It did drop back to 4G+ for no obvious reason at one point but it's still early days for getting used to how this works. I will certainly look into experimentally moving the router around if it keeps dropping out.
 
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