What's the best omni antenna for Band 3

[aimdev]

Hi
Thanks for that.
Ofcom do have an API, for which you have to register then await approval.
I am awaiting this approval, it will be interesting to see whats available, hopefully by postcode or other spatial input.
Cellmapper is not bad, but I guess a lot of the data is derived from people's phone in their vehicles, their coverage maps are more 'precise' and my town seems to be missed by all suppliers!! (more concentrated on the main roads, which is logical when you think how the service was conceived, ie mobile!!)
Surprisingly Ofcom reckons my town is 'green' on all providers with an external antenna.
I was hoping 5G would end the Openreach monopoly, but sadly history is repeating itself and a good solution is being thwarted by the PTB.

 

[GavinAshford]

Hi
Thanks for that.
Ofcom do have an API, for which you have to register then await approval.
I am awaiting this approval, it will be interesting to see whats available, hopefully by postcode or other spatial input.
Cellmapper is not bad, but I guess a lot of the data is derived from people's phone in their vehicles, their coverage maps are more 'precise' and my town seems to be missed by all suppliers!! (more concentrated on the main roads, which is logical when you think how the service was conceived, ie mobile!!)
Surprisingly Ofcom reckons my town is 'green' on all providers with an external antenna.
I was hoping 5G would end the Openreach monopoly, but sadly history is repeating itself and a good solution is being thwarted by the PTB.

Cellmapper trails are derived 100% from people contributing their own data from their devices as they move.
If there is no 'coverage' showing for your area then that's because no-one has travelled through it while using cellmapper and mapped the area. The main roads are obviously where the most people travel the most, so of cause those are more likely to show more dense trails.
Feel free to download the app and contribute as you travel around!

 

[aimdev]

Cellmapper trails are derived 100% from people contributing their own data from their devices as they move.
If there is no 'coverage' showing for your area then that's because no-one has travelled through it while using cellmapper and mapped the area. The main roads are obviously where the most people travel the most, so of cause those are more likely to show more dense trails.
Feel free to download the app and contribute as you travel around!

Hi
Correct me if I am wrong, but there appears to be no support for Apple phones?

 

[GavinAshford]

Hi
Correct me if I am wrong, but there appears to be no support for Apple phones?

You are correct - if you only have an Apple device then you can't contribute - I should have said Android only, sorry!

Apple haven't made any APIs publicly available that would be necessary to Cellmapper to get the data it would need to be able to do its thing (frequencies/cell ID/signal strength/etc).

 

[kommando828]

O2's network checker shows their mast locations, and by inference if the mast is shared with Vodafone then Voda as well.

 

[Defnas]

Open Signal does work on Apple devices, but I've never been able to find much useable information on it. e.g. it doesn't show any of the cell towers that Cellmappers says are near my house

 

[Defnas]

I've been able to test that 15dBi Dual Band Omni Directional antenna today using a 2m HDF400 cable again just a head height for convenience of switching connections so similar to before.

This an image of the results:

All tested using Ookla Speedtest app on an Apple iphone 11 Pro outdoors in the same location (I just choose a random convenient location, rather than the best signal location).
21:07 Netgear Mifi MR2100 with EE PAYG SIM and no external antenna to iphone (cellular disabled) by wifi
21:08 Netgear Mifi MR2100 with EE PAYG SIM and GSM dual band antenna connected to left port to iphone (cellular disabled) by wifi
21:10 Netgear Mifi MR2100 with EE PAYG SIM and GSM dual band antenna connected to right port to iphone (cellular disabled) by wifi
21:11 repeat of '08
21:13 repeat of '10
21:23 (2) repeat of previous one
21:14 repeat of '07
21:15. iPhone 11 Pro, wifi disabled, cellular enabled. Monthly contract SIM on fastest speed.

There was little change to the RSRP ro RSRQ with this antenna to the standard mifi with no antenna, SINR improved by 4.

I'll test again tomorrow at one of the racecourses and using all four carriers, although my vodafone SIM won't play nicely with the Ookla speedtest app - wouldn't connect today. It's been suggested parental lock is on by default and that needs to be turned off to work with some apps. Dreading that as I've already experienced the Vodafone customer service loop once this week already to try and get the SIM activated in the first place.

 

[TTJJ]

I've been able to test that 15dBi Dual Band Omni Directional antenna today using a 2m HDF400 cable again just a head height for convenience of switching connections so similar to before.

This an image of the results:View attachment 441

All tested using Ookla Speedtest app on an Apple iphone 11 Pro outdoors in the same location (I just choose a random convenient location, rather than the best signal location).
21:07 Netgear Mifi MR2100 with EE PAYG SIM and no external antenna to iphone (cellular disabled) by wifi
21:08 Netgear Mifi MR2100 with EE PAYG SIM and GSM dual band antenna connected to left port to iphone (cellular disabled) by wifi
21:10 Netgear Mifi MR2100 with EE PAYG SIM and GSM dual band antenna connected to right port to iphone (cellular disabled) by wifi
21:11 repeat of '08
21:13 repeat of '10
21:23 (2) repeat of previous one
21:14 repeat of '07
21:15. iPhone 11 Pro, wifi disabled, cellular enabled. Monthly contract SIM on fastest speed.

There was little change to the RSRP ro RSRQ with this antenna to the standard mifi with no antenna, SINR improved by 4.

I'll test again tomorrow at one of the racecourses and using all four carriers, although my vodafone SIM won't play nicely with the Ookla speedtest app - wouldn't connect today. It's been suggested parental lock is on by default and that needs to be turned off to work with some apps. Dreading that as I've already experienced the Vodafone customer service loop once this week already to try and get the SIM activated in the first place.

Parental lock can be easily removed in the online account. I had to do that a few weeks ago.

Also EE PAYG SIMs I think have some network access restrictions? I'm sure I've read that before. Something about the bands. EE PAYM gets full access and priority so should indeed be faster.

 

[Defnas]

It seems to have been Vodafone hadn't attached the SIM's included 2GB to the number when I activated the card. All good now.

As for EE, there was some discussion about band 20 not being available to PAYG customers, which I think actually benefits me as I want to use the Band 3 which is typically available at all my locations: https://community.ee.co.uk/t5/4G-and-mobile-data/Band-20-on-payg/td-p/833305

 

[Pwablo]

Hi Defnas
Your routers right hand port appears to be preferential for upload (Tests at 21:10 and 21:13)? When there is no antenna connected to the redundant port is it disabled or does it automatically assign to the internal antenna? From these initial results i get the impression you are in quite a good signal area for several bands considering your phone speed test results suggests aggregation? Also is there any way you can monitor / log the RSSI?
Good luck on your location field tests, I hope you see some positive results in the lower Band 3 signal locations.

 

[Defnas]

Here are the results of my testing from one course yesterday, the conclusion was there was no real benefit of the GSM antenna over the Poynting one, so for me the portability of the smaller Poynting antenna wins out over the GSM one.

I had tried three racecourses yesterday, and I've loaded the most complete set of data. Firstly I'd not realised the Three SIM had just run out of data, so I couldn't run any speed checks on that network at any of the three sites.

The first course had no Vodafone or o2 coverage at all, the image is for the second course, and the third course I was unable to access the site with all the gear (I had permission, but the gates were locked), so I didn't take the 2m GSM antenna and pole, just the more portable MiFI and a shorter pole. Then during testing the EE SIM also ran out of data and the Netgear app locked me out. It was getting late and I think the MIFI had had enough.

 

[Defnas]

Your routers right hand port appears to be preferential for upload (Tests at 21:10 and 21:13)?

Yes, upload speed has roughly parity with download on the right port, and there is virtually no upload when the aerial is plugged into the left port and download remains pretty much the same

When there is no antenna connected to the redundant port is it disabled or does it automatically assign to the internal antenna?

I assume if was automatically assigning to the internal antenna I would get better performance using the left port as well. I don't think I have any way to tell though.

From these initial results i get the impression you are in quite a good signal area for several bands considering your phone speed test results suggests aggregation?

Not really, those tests were near my house and we only really get Band 3 or 20 here. As I was using PAYG cards with the MIFI, EE at least excludes Band 20. The MIFI itself has the latest carrier aggregation options, but until the Band 3 refarming by EE is rolled out here I won't be able to make use of it. I bought it mainly as a travel router for (in the old days) I went to London on business etc.

Also is there any way you can monitor / log the RSSI?

I didn't see RSSI reported anywhere in the app, but doesn't RSRP effectively replace it anyway?

 

[Pwablo]

I must say I am very surprised that your results have not demonstrated some improvement over the original antenna, as this is in stark contrast to my experience and comparisons with these antennas. What jumps out at me, is that there seems to be a minimal change (within normal fluctuations) to the metrics (RSRP and RSRQ) between the routers internal and the GSM, which seems odd. Is it possible that because the redundant port is automatically assigned to internal when no external antenna is connected, that it is the internal antennas metrics that are being reported in the router? Do you have any way to check if the router is using the GSM antenna only when the other port is not in use? Do you have another router you could try?

Edit - Just to confirm that something strange is certainly going on with the internal antenna when the GSM is plugged in, is that the GSM is a dual band 1800/2100mhz antenna, i.e. it is tuned to present a low vswr over a certain bandwidth in this frequency range, yet when tested on with the Vodaphone and O2 at the location, only Band 20 was available. IMO the router must of been receiving its metrics from the internal antenna, as the GSM should be virtually deaf to this band. I think its quite likely that the results that you have been getting with the GSM is a combination with the internal?

 

[Defnas]

I think its quite likely that the results that you have been getting with the GSM is a combination with the internal?

Yes, I think you're right. I did very briefly see a -77 RSRP flash up before locking onto a -102 reading, I assume it found a better tower before the router switched to an alternative with a better quality signal or something.

There's not much I can do with this particular router, there's not even an external antenna setting in the app. I'll revisit when I buy one the routers we'll be using next month.

 

[Pwablo]

Yes, I think you're right. I did very briefly see a -77 RSRP flash up before locking onto a -102 reading, I assume it found a better tower before the router switched to an alternative with a better quality signal or something.

There's not much I can do with this particular router, there's not even an external antenna setting in the app. I'll revisit when I buy one the routers we'll be using next month.

Hi Defnas

Definately something going on, cause i've stuck up several of these antennas and they work very well for what they are. The RUT240 I use at home has no internal antennas, and when changing out the antennas on it I can see the RSSI change straight away (as well as the other metrics). This is the only reason I asked earlier if you could see the RSSI, as Ive found that the changes to the RSRP are usually less dramatic in some cases, and often within the levels of expected fluctuation, so IMO it is not such a good metric to use when aligning or testing antennas, although it does indicate the power across the whole block in the band.
If I had a spare suitable router that would of helped you out, I would of sent it too you to try, but I only have an Aircard 785S and a cheap Ebay Chinese LTE router not in use atm. The Aircard is very basic settings like your M2, and the Chinese one has a fixed antenna, so both pretty useless for what you need to make a difference.

 

[Defnas]

I don't suppose anyone knows of a router that has no internal aerials, can be band locked, can prioritise uploads, can be bought unlocked (and used with EE, Three, Vodafone and o2 PAYG or Contract SIMs), will run off a battery for period of upto 6 hours, has an ethernet LAN socket and wifi which can be restricted to a single receiving device.

The liveU solo unit that will be receiving these connections bonds across upto 4 connections, 2x 3G/4G USB modems (Huawei E8372-153 in the UK), 1x wifi and 1x ethernet, the unit supports:

4G LTE, HSPA+, HSUPA, HSDPA, UMTS, CDMA EVDO Rev 0/A/B, Mobile WiMAX, 10/100 ethernet and external Wi-Fi 802.11 a,b,g & n support

 

[Pwablo]

Only one I know of that would fit all of the requirements would be the Teltonika range... RUT240 being the cheapest 4G at £126. RUT240, and top end ones like the RUTX range, which are £300-£400 quid.

RUT 240 Features

It has band forcing also, but if your using an antenna that can only receive B3 then you should not need to force the bands, as the router should not be able to receive B20 or try to connect to it. Ive never seen B20 on mine, and I know its available here with EE.
There is a power cable that can be purchased separately for the RUT routers that lets you power it from 12V/24V DC, as these are primarily designed for public transport applications like trains, buses and trams etc. although they do come with a 240v AC transformer as standard.
12/24v Cable
To be fair I am perhaps a bit bias (can you tell lol), however these routers really are comprehensive. The firmware is literally loaded with functions, and features, as you would expect on an industrial quality device. Even the entry level RUT240 has Dual WAN, Load Balancing, Open VPN, Full diagnostics and graphs and Wifi Hot-spot features along with a host of other functions. Can even send SMS commands to reboot, turn on off wifi, start monitoring etc.
Hope this helps

 

[Johninstockie]

I know a little late, but this thread is an excellent source of information to us uninitiated.

Myself I try to live stream sports events from very small grounds in the south Manchester area, and it has been an ongoing struggle for over a year in trying to find a setup that works.

Currently I do not have an antenna, but I am using a tool called Speedify on a raspberry pi with 3x 4g monthly data Sims (3, EE and Vodafone). Also looking at the LiveU unit as a next step but some of the reviews are very mixed.

With this setup I am going from maybe 7mbps down and 2mbps up to 10mbps down and 2.5mbps up which is just not good enough for sports streaming.

I think the setup that Pablo mentioned above would also be a better solution for me

I am very interested to know any final setup that can achieve a constant 5mbps upload when say 5km from the tower.

Thanks

 

[Defnas]

I know a little late, but this thread is an excellent source of information to us uninitiated.

Myself I try to live stream sports events from very small grounds in the south Manchester area, and it has been an ongoing struggle for over a year in trying to find a setup that works.

Currently I do not have an antenna, but I am using a tool called Speedify on a raspberry pi with 3x 4g monthly data Sims (3, EE and Vodafone). Also looking at the LiveU unit as a next step but some of the reviews are very mixed.

With this setup I am going from maybe 7mbps down and 2mbps up to 10mbps down and 2.5mbps up which is just not good enough for sports streaming.

I think the setup that Pablo mentioned above would also be a better solution for me

I am very interested to know any final setup that can achieve a constant 5mbps upload when say 5km from the tower.

Thanks

Hi John,

I must say the LiveU unit has been flawless for us so far. I know people have been able to stream 1080p with as little as 2Mbps up with it.

We're send the final stream out at 720p and the last stream was going out at a steady 4.7Mpbs for 5 hours. The advantage with LiveU's LRT is that they invented this tech, so they know how to assemble the individual streams into one rock solid stream from several weaker ones. We've not had any dropped frames and had quite a lot of praise from viewers for the image quality.

There are a couple local firms to you using the Solo that you could try reaching out to for their experiences with the local mobile networks: Leeds's based Andy McHardy https://www.facebook.com/RealTimeEventsuk or Lancashire based Brian David Films https://www.facebook.com/BrianDavidFilms

Pablo's solution might not work for streaming, as those modems I understand work on a failover model. So it one connection fails it automatically switches to the other SIM. In doing so it might actually drop the live stream.

Speedify is better in that it is creating one stronger upload connection, but it doesn't have the image processing tech that the cellular bonding solutions have in the cloud. Speedify has packet loss and error correction tech, but I don't know how well it does on ensuring no frames are lost or not sync issues between video & audio are encountered. The cellular bonding providers LiveU, Teradek, AviWest, MobileViewpoint etc all specialise in that.

 

[Johninstockie]

Hi John,

I must say the LiveU unit has been flawless for us so far. I know people have been able to stream 1080p with as little as 2Mbps up with it.

We're send the final stream out at 720p and the last stream was going out at a steady 4.7Mpbs for 5 hours. The advantage with LiveU's LRT is that they invented this tech, so they know how to assemble the individual streams into one rock solid stream from several weaker ones. We've not had any dropped frames and had quite a lot of praise from viewers for the image quality.

There are a couple local firms to you using the Solo that you could try reaching out to for their experiences with the local mobile networks: Leeds's based Andy McHardy https://www.facebook.com/RealTimeEventsuk or Lancashire based Brian David Films https://www.facebook.com/BrianDavidFilms

Pablo's solution might not work for streaming, as those modems I understand work on a failover model. So it one connection fails it automatically switches to the other SIM. In doing so it might actually drop the live stream.

Speedify is better in that it is creating one stronger upload connection, but it doesn't have the image processing tech that the cellular bonding solutions have in the cloud. Speedify has packet loss and error correction tech, but I don't know how well it does on ensuring no frames are lost or not sync issues between video & audio are encountered. The cellular bonding providers LiveU, Teradek, AviWest, MobileViewpoint etc all specialise in that.

Thanks Defnas

I was hoping you were still on!

Thanks very much for the advice. It Is really good to hear your experience with the LiveU unit. Are you using any form of antenna or amplifier with the LiveU?

For the LRT costs, are they significant or merely a minor charge when compared to how much you save in data plans?

Cheers

John