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Why the aversion to 12 month contracts?

Hello everyone.

It's just beginning to dawn on me that the lack of a 12-month minimum term isn't necessarily a good thing.

The thing that really matters is the actual fee for connecting and disconnecting. You can't assume that an ISP which describes itself as having "no 12-month contract" is necessarily cheaper to connect and disconnect quickly.

Up until recently I assumed that if an ISP has a minimum term of 12 months, then you will have to pay the full 12 months rental if you cancel any earlier than that. But that's not necessarily the case. For example, although some of Madasafish's offerings say they have a minimum term of 12 months, there's a fixed fee of £55 if you choose to cancel earlier. Virgin, on the other hand, apparently has "no 12 month contract" yet still has a £50 cancellation charge in the first 12 months. Hmmm!

Demon, on the other hand, have very restrictive terms. It's a 12 month contract, there is no provision in the contract for cancelling early, and there's also no provision for notice after the end of the first 12 months - in other words, the only times you can terminate are at 12 months, or 24 months, or 36 months, or 48 months and so on. Eek! In other words, don't touch Demon with a barge pole! Neither Madasafish's nor Virgin's terms are anywhere nearly as restrictive!

It's all so confusing! Is there any comparative listing of MAC-voluntary-code-compliant ISP's anywhere that gives the real information about connection and disconnection charges? Merely saying whether a deal has a 12 month contract or not is clearly not enough information.

Thanks.
 
Very Averted!!

Title Freddie D

“Why the aversion to 12 Month contracts?”
----------------------------------------------

You are having a joke aren’t you?

True the actual 12 month period is not that bad. IF you have a deal you are happy with.
And, IF the ISP keeps their word or to their agreement.

Unfortunately as you may have found. ISP customer service and codes of conduct in a lot of cases, are not worth Bo Diddly.
I have found to my bitter experience, that in some instances that if you only have a verbal promise or agreement, even if promising to give confirmation.
Then unless you have written or email corroboration of the terms you have agreed to (WITHIN the first 7 days). You can be screwed ie mis-sold a package and then told you have a 12 month contract.

Despite Rights of Cancellation: Consumer Rights: DS Regs. These can be and are flouted.
Regardless of even if they are signed up to Ofcom or whatever.
(Although true to say it certainly would not pay to use one that is not signed up!)

Yes you can make official complaint to these Bodies who are usually very helpful.
But it can be a long and miserable road trying to get redress!
As often these bodies are tied down to certain regulations and procedures.

Otelo for example are very helpful. But there are stringent requirements involved to enable making an official registered complaint, which involves that Recorded deliv correspondence etc has been sent to the ISP in question.

This is then followed by a 3 month/12 week waiting period before you can proceed any further! Eeek!

I think there could be a good case somehow for a monthly contract perhaps.
But always study the T&Cs. As you found Small print of Virgin monthly bb contract still has a cancellation fee.

However, I hope you have luck and success with you search.

(And perhaps more than I am at present. But that will soon change.[I hope])
 
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Unfortunately as you may have found. ISP customer service and codes of conduct in a lot of cases, are not worth Bo Diddly.
I totally agree with you, but I think you've missed my point.

My point is, even if an ISP says there's no 12-month contract, that doesn't meant that they won't levy a disconnection charge. Furthermore, that disconnection charge won't necessarily be cheaper than that of another ISP which says that it does have a 12 month contract.

In other words - don't take an ISP's word for it on whether there's a 12 month contract or not. Don't assume that you know what it means when an ISP says whether there's a 12 month contract or not.

For example, Orange's 12 month term seems to suggest that you will pay the full subscription fee for the remainder of the period if you cancel early.

Demon's 12 month term, suggests that you can only quit at multiples of 12 months from the start date! And there's nothing in the terms to say what you will be charged if you quit at any other time.

However, many ISP's which describe themselves as having a 12 month contract only charge a fixed fee if you want to leave before it has expired, which is small compared with the whole term. For example, Pipex charges £58.75, Madasafish charges £55, and Eclipse charges £47. Virgin.net describes itself as having no 12 month contract, yet still charges £50 if you cancel within the first 12 months.

How can I hammer this point home?
  • Cancelling Eclipse is actually cheaper than cancelling Virgin!
  • despite the fact that Eclipse apparently has a 12 month contract:
  • and despite the fact that Virgin apparently doesn't.

My point is that as long as you know in advance how much it's going to cost to get out early, it's not that big a deal, because you can compare like for like.

I think there could be a good case somehow for a monthly contract perhaps.
But always study the T&Cs. As you found Small print of Virgin monthly bb contract still has a cancellation fee.
Indeed. But I challenge anyone to find an ADSL service which they can really use for just one month and then dump, which isn't going to cost more than £30, when you add the connection, disconnection, and subscription fees all together. Hey, I defy anyone to find one which will be less than £50.

Although there are a number of ISP's that offer connection discounts if you migrate in, it seems that none of these comply with the Ofcom MAC code of practice. Of those which do comply, none of them seem to charge a connection fee anyway - but they all seem to impose charges if you leave within 12 months. It's all very well for an ISP to say that they don't have a minimum term and don't have a cancellation fee either - but if they don't comply with the code of practice, it's a bit academic.

I hope that's made my point clear - do ask if there are any questions. So does anyone know if there are any genuinely flexible deals out there, that you can move into and out of in a hurry without it costing a bomb? Thanks.
 
eclipse have a free setup and modem option which has a twelve month contract but if u decide to opt out early u pay £45 which is the same connection fee payable if u want a 1 month contract at the start.

so go with 12 months u may like it and if not £45 is a small price to pay to move

aol make u pay the remainder of the 12 month contract
 
Ive always maintained that businesses used a 12 month contract to help in balancing the books. A cashflow that is predictable is a positive aim for a business. If people are deciding to flit off whenever they want, this makes it much harder for a business to run.
 
The other thing that I think you missed is that most people DON'T read and understand the minute of contracts and costs....
Thats why it is better as a general rule of thumb to say 'avoid 12 month contracts...'

There is also the fact that if you are only tied to a 1 month contract then the ISP is less likely to drag its heels and mess around.....It wants you to stay around as long as possible.
 
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Virgin got in 'trouble' over their no-minimum term contract advertising with the ASA

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/light.php?search=asa
The ad breached CAP Code clause 7.1 (Truthfulness).

There are a number of ISP's that now utilise cancellation fees, often as a somewhat covert replacement for supposedly "free" activation or setup charges.

Much like Virgin.net, few choose to publicise this charge outside of their T&C's. Now provider's will also have to include it in their advertising lest they risk the wrath of the asa (*giggles*).


I personally would describe a service with a cancellation fee if you leave in the first twelve months as having a twelve month contract with an early exit penalty.

Don't get me wrong, only charging £50 if you leave early is very fair, BT charge £47 inc vat for activation after all, and it is much fairer than an ISP that wants you to pay up for the whole contract even though they won't have to pay any more to supply it.

If an ISP claims it has no minimum / no long term contract and also says free activation, you can bet on there being a termination fee. The shortest contract I've seen with free activation is three months.

Unfortunately you have to read the T&C's thoroughly and hope you don't overlook any catches or you risk being mislead, or even ripped-off by some of the less scrupulous ISPs.

It would be nice if Ofcom required ISP to provide specific and accurate information such as download limits monthly cost and minimum term etc out in the open on the main page like BT Broadband seem to do, so consumers could more easily compare ISPs, but I can't see that happening.


I wish more ISPs were upfront with what they are offering.
 
Hello, and thank you ever so much for all your replies, they're very helpful. :)

nodrog says
eclipse have a free setup and modem option which has a twelve month contract but if u decide to opt out early u pay £45 which is the same connection fee payable if u want a 1 month contract at the start.
Thanks, yes, I noticed that. Forgive me for splitting hairs but I thought the charge was £47 - but apart from that, you seem to be right.

Which seems odd. Why pay £47 upfront to get 1 month contract when you don't have to pay more than that to cancel the 12 month? Either that, or I've missed something somewhere. Are they likely to charge for failure to return modem? Although I'm attracted to some of Eclipse's offerings, I'm concerned about people saying they've gone downhill since local loop unbundling.

aol make u pay the remainder of the 12 month contract
.. which absolutely stinks in my opinion. Besides, there are other reasons why I personally wouldn't sign up with AOL, apart from that one.

Darkspark
Ive always maintained that businesses used a 12 month contract to help in balancing the books. A cashflow that is predictable is a positive aim for a business. If people are deciding to flit off whenever they want, this makes it much harder for a business to run.
Thanks for that, although the business case of offering certain deals is not of my concern. I'm a consumer, not a shareholder, and if I don't happen to be a particularly profitable kind of customer, well that's just too bad. I might compromise my requirements if it seems that what I want is not available, but only as a last resort.

Having said that, one month contracts with ISP's that comply with Ofcom's MAC code of practice seem to be very thin on the ground. If they weren't, I might not have started this thread.

After all, I don't see the point of selecting an ISP on the strength of a one-month contract if you're not going to be able to get your MAC out of them two months down the line. For that reason, I'm starting to think that MAC code of practice compliance is actually more important than one month contracts.

Trikky says
There is also the fact that if you are only tied to a 1 month contract then the ISP is less likely to drag its heels and mess around.....It wants you to stay around as long as possible.
True, but only to the extent that they are forced to give you your MAC. I also fear that LLU ISP's are more likely to come up with excuses for not giving you a MAC, though I don't know how true this is.

Mel says
I personally would describe a service with a cancellation fee if you leave in the first twelve months as having a twelve month contract with an early exit penalty.
Thanks, I agree, thanks also for bringing up the ASA ruling.

As it happens, it seems that VirginNET are quite upfront about this £50 termination fee, although they still describe their offering as having no 12 month contract all the same.

By contrast, other ISP's say they have a 12 month contract, but the fee for terminating early is still buried deep within the T&C's. In my opinion, these ISP's do themselves a disservice this way - because normally, when someone says some sort of service is a twelve month contract, I assume that you will have to pay the subscription fee for the whole of the term, regardless of whether you use it or not. But for many ISP's, this is not the case at all, and early termination is a lot cheaper than you might expect - but unfortunately, this is not true for all of them.

So I think that paying an activation fee to avoid a 12 month contract is probably a false economy, because termination fees of 12 month contract ISP's are rarely higher than the activation fees of those without contract. That said, I've yet to find an ISP which does charge an upfront activation fee which is also on the Ofcom MAC code of practice compliance list.

Thanks again for all the comments, I agree with Mel that better regulation of advertisements would be a good idea.
 
Although I'm attracted to some of Eclipse's offerings, I'm concerned about people saying they've gone downhill since local loop unbundling.

Most of the problems with the LLU seem to be fixed now....

I guess it was just an awful lot of teething troubles and a healthy dollop of miscommunication!
 
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eclipse t &c's say u must return modem but when i signed up in february the rep i spoke to on the phone said they had never asked for any modems to be returned or charged for them either.

anyway i am happy so far with eclipse 9 months on
 
I think Eclipse are handing out 'free' routers now, as they cost a fair bit more they might want them back or paid for.

Edit: seems the free wireless router is for migrations. (probably be better off ringing up and insisting on a monthly contract)
 
What routers are they handing out??

When I joined up I said that I didn't need the router as I had my own.....
I could't see the point in taking the router when mine was possibly better (After seeing the pile of trash modem that Talk Talk gave me...And insisted I send back!!)
 
it is netgear routers and exsisting users can get discounts upgrading at £52.50 for router only was £69.99 or £69.99 for router and usb adaptor which was £107.98

the free router does not come with adaptor but u get 1 month subscription free.
 
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