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New Kent UK Homeowners Criticise Persimmon Over FTTP Broadband Monopoly

Friday, Jan 31st, 2025 (9:12 am) - Score 4,040
Mascalls-Grange-Estate-in-Paddock-Wood-Google-3D-Map-310125

Residents living in new build homes on the ‘Mascalls Grange Estate’ in Paddock Wood (Kent, England), which was constructed by Persimmon Homes, have called for help after suffering a “nightmare” of protracted broadband outages. But locals have been unable to escape the developer’s sibling ISP, FibreNest, because they have a “monopoly” over the area.

The situation will be a familiar one to ISPreview’s readers because we’ve touched on it a few times before. Essentially, back in 2018 Persimmon undertook a strategic venture to launch FibreNest, which meant that they could build their own Fibre-to-the-Premises (FTTP) broadband network alongside the construction of new homes – making it cheaper deploy and very quick to connect residents to a fast broadband service. At the time, very few providers were building FTTP, so this was more of a positive.

NOTE: The Mascalls Grange Estate is home to 375 newly built houses and the only broadband service is available via FibreNest (you can’t even get Openreach’s copper lines).

On the flip side, FibreNest’s dominance of such estates often makes it challenging for rival networks to enter, which tends to result in a localised monopoly. Persimmon Homes did respond to this criticism in 2021 by launching a wholesale product (FibreNest Wholesale) that rival ISPs could harness (here), but this has thus far not been attractive enough to entice any other providers.

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As one resident, Lois Gray (24), of the Mascalls Grange Estate, said (KentOnline): “From the start, it became clear FibreNest’s monopoly on the estate was more of a burden than a convenience. We don’t have a choice. If we want internet, it has to be through FibreNest. One of the biggest issues is the frequent outages. On January 7, the entire estate lost internet for more than 35 hours.”

Similarly, another resident, Sophie Kemp (26), complained about a spate of protracted service outages over the past few years. “People are losing out on days’ wages; people are not able to make calls or be in contact with family members of friends and when we make communication with FibreNest we’re not getting any response back or any updates that we’re happy with,” said Sophie. Other residents have echoed these remarks.

FibreNest has since apologised for the service problems and added that a “good quality connection is our highest priority,” albeit while acknowledging the lack of choice and adding that the decision to join their network at wholesale would ultimately be a “commercial” one for other providers.

A FibreNest spokesman said:

“Fundamentally, we were created to ensure there is a high-quality broadband service immediately available when people move into their new home. The value of this service is reflected by our customer satisfaction scores which are significantly higher than other large national providers.”

Both Trooli and Openreach have built their own FTTP broadband networks nearby to the estate, although a spokesperson for Openreach said they were “effectively locked out from that location” by Persimmon and that “retro-fitting infrastructure to the estate would require significant, disruptive civil engineering work and would be cost-prohibitive“. The same is likely to be true for Trooli, which will be running much of their new fibre via Openreach’s ducts and poles.

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As for FibreNest’s wholesale proposition, it’s possible that the network operator may not yet have built enough scale to make it attractive enough for other ISPs to join (onboarding a new network isn’t cheap, and this one is in the sub-100k premises passed territory). Equally, FibreNest’s own commercials / pricing may simply have been set at a level that is unattractive for other providers.

Frustrated residents have now switched tactics and managed to get support from local MP Mike Martin (Lib Dem), who is doing what he can to raise their plight with the UK government and trying to encourage Openreach to help improve the situation. “It is outrageous residents are forced to put up with poor broadband connection, and have no choice of supplier,” said Mike. But there’s currently no sign of any solutions.

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Mark-Jackson
By Mark Jackson
Mark is a professional technology writer, IT consultant and computer engineer from Dorset (England), he also founded ISPreview in 1999 and enjoys analysing the latest telecoms and broadband developments. Find me on X (Twitter), Mastodon, Facebook, BlueSky, Threads.net and .
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56 Responses

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  1. Avatar photo Bykerbloke says:

    I live 5 mins away from there and my only option for connectivity is starlink. I’d give my left arm to get FTTP connectivity, monopoly or otherwise. The fact I can see the Trooli office from my bedroom window isn’t lost on me either…

    1. Avatar photo binary says:

      @Bykerbloke
      “I’d give my left arm to get FTTP connectivity, monopoly or otherwise.”

      What about seemingly unreliable FTTP connectivity?

  2. Avatar photo Steve Scott says:

    Let’s be honest, the wholesale product is unlikely to make the experience substantially better. If the whole estate goes down, it’s mostly certainly going to affect retail and wholesale customers in the same way.

    Add it to the “Reasons not to buy a newbuild” list…

    Starlink is a result of poor terrestrial infrastructure (Lets be honest, mostly because of a lack of competition in the US), but would seem to be the only viable fix here

    1. Mark-Jackson Mark Jackson says:

      You could be right there, but off-hand I recall reading that they were able to offer a deeper option here than just regular wholesale. But I’ve not seen the details, so it’s hard to know.

    2. Avatar photo binary says:

      @Steve Scott
      “Add it to the ‘Reasons not to buy a newbuild’ list…”

      I absolutely concur that there are just too many horror stories out there about the absurd shortcomings of some new builds… but if – as will be the case for many – it’s a choice between a new build or not having a home of one’s own, then in a sense it’s not much of a choice at all!

      The underlying issue here is the all too common crappy quality (along with bland and unimaginative design, often accompanied by an uninspired car-centric focus) of new build estates. If the new government does succeed in getting Britain building, it’d be great if said building could be done a bit better!

    3. Avatar photo Big Dave says:

      @binary the problem with new build quality is probably down to the fact that developers are allowed to sign off on their own work and not by building control at the local council – a recipe for abuse if their ever was one.

  3. Avatar photo Kris says:

    People knew that Fibre Nest was the provider when they bought their home, and it should have been obvious that a rival was unlikely to roll out any infrastructure given all current internet users would be in a contract.

    If they had no fibre nest they’d be moaning about not having any fibre at all.

    1. Avatar photo The Provisioner says:

      That is one of the most ludicrous things I have ever read.

      Sure, prospective home owners should have understood that it was unlikely that a competitor would ever be able to provide service on a Persimmon-built estate (by design!).

      But there is a known housing shortage and in many cases, people are forced to buy what they can, when they can.

      Openreach will happily work with any new site developer to install duct and other FTTP infrastructure on any new build estates, including providing materials FOC.

      Unless they are locked out by the Developer.

      Which is what it appears Persimmon do.

      These types of practices should be investigated by the CMA and outlawed with new legislation.

    2. Avatar photo Alex says:

      Bet you’re fun at parties.

    3. Avatar photo Fastman says:

      incorrect the developer would have bave been paid to have fibre infrastructure privided -(under the SOD process)- in this case persimmon chose their in house provider with no choice ever rather than an open access provider offering choice to the residents

    4. Avatar photo pint says:

      Most people would expect to be able to get a “phone” line from British Telecom, and/or move their broadband contract to their new address – whatever happened to the BT universal service obligation?

    5. Avatar photo Ivor says:

      BT’s USO has a cost cap. If it’s going to cost more than a few grand to connect an address then they are entitled to pass the remainder onto the applicant. Given that the streets on the estate are probably under the control of the developer then that will add to those costs.

      They are also permitted to use other technologies to provide that 10Mbps minimum service, eg you’ll get an EE 4G/5G router. If I’ve read the terms and conditions correctly they can also decline to serve properties that have access to an altnet.

    6. Avatar photo 125us says:

      BT (Openreach) can’t deliver where the developer still owns the streets and infrastructure and refuses to allow access or give permission to install.

    7. Avatar photo Laurence 'GreenReaper' Parry says:

      Refuses? Hire some mercs and get it done. You have an obligation!

    8. Avatar photo Sadly says:

      If it’s not adopted they would have to take the developer or management company to court to access the development.

  4. Avatar photo G. H says:

    But if other providers came in with poles or digging up the roads, they would complain too. Same thing in Hull. people moaned about KCOM monopoly but went crazy when new infrastructure was built. There is no winning.

    1. Avatar photo Mark1 says:

      I live in one of the villages with a HU17 postcode near Hull and KCOM still have the monopoly here and charge high prices because the competition hasn’t arrived here yet.
      So annoying when there is no choice and no decent 4G or 5G coverage.

    2. Avatar photo mike 3000 says:

      100% agree I live on a fibre nest development and apart from the price and initial service its been fine I get the advertised speeds over 900 down 110 up. What I find is the issue sometimes is the tech savviness of those making some complaints, they pay for the lowest possible speeds and complain when there kids playstation phones and their dodgy fire sticks star to buffer and have issues.

      When the council eventually adopts the estate I would be furious if someone came and stuck a telegraph pole in the front of my property. I won’t deny I am delouse of the original estate which mile was built off of recently being connected by BRSK but they are still on a 35Mbps at best VDSL connection so I would rather of had Fibrenest in that instance.

  5. Avatar photo Big Dave says:

    If they have decent 5G on the estate a 5G router could be an option.

    1. Avatar photo MilesT says:

      EE has 5g coverage (parts of estate at least), Three does not (4G or 5g), haven’t checked the others (too much work to prove a point).

      @Mark could have checked for that (as a journalist) when writing up the main article.

      So most houses are not without a value priced option (as a fallback for WFH) even though wholesale fibre is not available (i.e. Starlink likely not necessary)

      Interestingly EE does seem to offer fibre, at least in the first part of the process, unless I have guessed the address wrong–less of an issue for 4G/5G of course.

  6. Avatar photo john says:

    What makes it ‘cost prohibitive’ in this case? Lots of places have had “significant, disruptive civil engineering work” in order for fibre networks to be installed.

    1. Avatar photo Joe Who says:

      @John there could be many reasons as follows.

      If you look at VM how close is their existing network to the build? Does it need upgraded to support the additional homes on the network (most likely yes).

      Are there any major carriageway digs in the area? Can they agree with persimmon to allow them to bring their own network in post build before handed over to the council? If yes then it will require full width reinstatement rather than the normal dig. Which would throw the cost right up. How much of the site is completed?

      Could they agree with persimmon/ fibre nest to pull their network through the ducting owned by persimmon/ fibrenest if yes no doubt fibrenest will charge a hefty price. But even if they get in how much off-site work is required?

      This scenario is true of both OR and any other alnet in the area.

      It really isn’t financially viable and I would say that neither VM or OR want to work too closely with fibrenest who are cowboys who took advantage of a situation many years ago and seen pound signs for their business model.

    2. Avatar photo 125us says:

      The developer will still own the streets in the estate and will either refuse access or demand vast sums into allow infrastructure other than their own to be installed.

  7. Avatar photo Billy Shears says:

    Is this part of the racket where the estate remains in the ownership of the developer which can then charge ever increasing “management fees” for (not) cutting the grass and other mysterious, invisible services as well as allowing them to lock other service providers out by refusing wayleaves?
    The leasehold con has been closed down (I believe) so they dream up a different con. It should be illegal.

    1. Avatar photo Jonny says:

      Agreed, why does a house builder even want to be in the ISP business. Lay duct for Openreach, Virgin and Cityfibre when you build the estate, get the materials free of charge and even get paid to install them, and then enjoy the internet connectivity not being your problem.

    2. Avatar photo 125us says:

      They see other businesses making money from ‘their’ estate and decide to grab it for themselves.

    3. Avatar photo mike 3000 says:

      Yep that’s my understanding currently on a persimmon estate and there are no signs of council adoption any time soon, however we have a few clued up individuals on the estate who challenge persimmons actions, for example we was shown the tendering details of the management contract and how the successful party was awarded.

      Seeing the councils handy work I do wonder if its better the devil you know sometimes, which is very worrying

  8. Avatar photo Diver Fred says:

    This is where OpenReach should get HMG money to put in the necessary ducting to provide the ‘competitive’ service for other companies to provide FTTP.

    Agree with Steve Scott – a reason not to buy on that or similar estates.

    1. Avatar photo Name says:

      Argument about not buying on new estate is a b*ll shit because in many cases you have no other option. OR (or anyone else) will not build new ducts on these estates simply because the land is not owned by local council – yes, there are no lease holds anymore but there is a service charge for maintaining everything around your home. Yet another loophole nobody want to do anything with.

  9. Avatar photo Alex says:

    This will happen more and more over the years as people realise they can’t switch to Sky or BT.

    1. Avatar photo Name says:

      What if I told you that you can switch to Sky on OFNL but if there is an outage it is always about underlying OFNL network not the ISP itself?

  10. Avatar photo Name says:

    Same with any other new build estate, I remember OFNL outages in my place. Thankfully they’ve improved and (touch the wood) outages are very rare now. Of course this should be resolved by govt but every time we have elections all candidates want to:
    – fix nhs
    – build more council homes
    but not real problems.

    1. Avatar photo NE555 says:

      I can’t think of many more pressing problems than fixing the NHS and addressing the housing crisis.

    2. Avatar photo Name says:

      @NE555: And how they perform on fixing those problems?

    3. Avatar photo binary says:

      @Name (re comment at 1.53pm)

      The new government has been in power for less than seven months.

    4. Avatar photo Lonpfrb says:

      @binary
      “The new government has been in power for less than seven months.”
      They have been in opposition for 14 years so plenty of time to work on effective reform to UK housing problems. However they prefer to further wreck the Private Rented Sector with the Renters Reform Bill started by the other lot listening to the activists who house nobody. As a result homelessness will increase hugely as landlords leave that abusive situation. New build will be the solution for a tiny fraction as rental costs continue to rise under the regulations. Government tax costs for temporary housing will ballot and people will get to live with their grown-up kids.
      Internet, the least of their problems.

  11. Avatar photo carlconradw says:

    The Competition and Markets Authority should investigate. Mark, do you think that would help ?

    1. Mark-Jackson Mark Jackson says:

      I suspect this one may be too small to even register on their radar. But Ofcom’s next market review might have a small interest, although again I’m not sure if they’re big enough to warrant intervention.

    2. Avatar photo Name says:

      It is not “this one” only Mark, the problem is country wide on almost every new estate. This time it is about Persimmon (again) but the same issue is elsewhere with OFNL, MS3 and recently Pulse Fibre joined the party.

    3. Mark-Jackson Mark Jackson says:

      By this one, I meant “FibreNest” as a whole, as they’re the subject of the article. But it should be said that in quite a few other areas there can still be ADSL/FTTC via OR as a fallback, which while very poor, is still a choice and thus the monopoly argument isn’t as strong as in cases like the one above.

      I know somebody else mentioned 4G/5G, but that’s a different ballgame and variable performance makes it really hard to pin down (signal coverage alone doesn’t tell you how fast the data connection is etc.).

    4. Avatar photo The Provisioner says:

      You can also add Talk Talk and Hyperoptic to the list of culprits.

    5. Avatar photo John says:

      Persimmon and ofnl have more than 300k each. They are not small in any measure unless you are only comparing to open reach or virgin

    6. Avatar photo MilesT says:

      @Mark. Yes 4G/5G can be variable/awful.

      But it can be OK, too.

      Where I spend part of my time, 5G is my best available option (FTTC currently only available at 36Mbps, no Fibre, not paying for Starlink).

      My Samknows box (yes I still have one and it still reports) rarely dips below 100Mbps, and most of the time is over 200Mbs. I don’t pay a lot of attention to latency (as it is not essential for my usage, including videoconferencing and light HD streaming).

      Details: Three 5G home broadband, Holt Norfolk, 700m near LoS from mast (only mast that covers the area for 5G). I probably could get even better service if I put up external aerial on redundant TV aerial pole. In recent months EE has also provisioned 5G from same mast (O2/Voda also in town but don’t offer service and anyway their mast is further away, shorter and more occluded).

  12. Avatar photo - says:

    I think councils could solve this by insisting they won’t adopt a road without openreach, or other open access ducting in (with the terms and conditions conveniently matching the pia specs). I don’t think that would be illegal ?

    It would even work on existing roads waiting for adoption, developers would be incentivised into forcing thier telecoms arm to offer access under PIA equivalent terms.

    1. Avatar photo Name says:

      Councils won’t adopt it at all because they can charge council tax without providing services, as the land remains private and is maintained by contractors paid through service charges.

    2. Avatar photo The real Witcher says:

      I thought many developers like to keep control of the roads and charge hefty service charges for the privilege of maintaining and repairing them

    3. Avatar photo Just a thought says:

      Do the developers control the water and electricity and gas?
      A PIA duct to the nearest adopted road should be the minimum requirement to get planning permission.

      If the roads are not adopted, do usual highway code rules not apply? Can people race round at 50mph?

    4. Avatar photo Big Dave says:

      @Just a thought

      As far as I’m aware highway code rules apply wherever the general public has access so for example you couldn’t get drunk then go driving round & round your local Tesco car park.

    5. Avatar photo Fender says:

      Where the developer has a financial interest in controlling and limiting access to other providers, they should be compelled to share the ducts via a pia arrangement.

  13. Avatar photo Oops not listening says:

    Another win for our customers

  14. Avatar photo SicOf says:

    And yet again, just another exaple of why there should simply be a harmonised national fiber replacement or addition to copper, without dupli/tripli cations, so stopping all such squables of actual infra providers, and would then mirror gas and electricity (odd water doesnt have a simmilar middle ) and rail ‘sellers’ model of common infrastructure + service.

    Dur, why have a consistent network, when you can have a distopian fragnet, who ever in their right mind would allow such a mess of a nationally needed infrastructure.

    1. Avatar photo The Facts says:

      30 years too late.

    2. Avatar photo MikeP says:

      @TheFacts More like 40 years (not quite, but very nearly)
      Depressing, isn’t it? Peter Cochrane had it right, of course. We could have, f’rinstance, 5G picocells everywhere, in every CPE, if some politician or other whose name escapes me 🙂 hadn’t had her way.

  15. Avatar photo james smith says:

    How good is mobile coverage in the area?
    Just buy a mobile router, slap a sim in and give the fixed line provider your middle finger.
    No wires, no engineer needs to visit, which mobile provider you use is your call

    1. Avatar photo Lonpfrb says:

      This is the mobile network operator model and means that the failure of Project Gigabit to deliver FTTP to rural Britain will be a long term lost opportunity.
      For example Three offer 5G broadband with 150mbs but haven’t yet built the cells to deliver it widely, so 4G broadband is their fallback with 50mbs service. Other networks are similar depending on their 5G build rate.

  16. Avatar photo Nick Roberts says:

    Oh come on you lot, developers have difficulty nowadays building walls that are straight, rooves and shower units that don’t leak, internal floors that are level, windows and doors that open and close properly and choosing building sites away from reclaimed land with sink holes . . . .and you are expecting them to move several points up the brain-surgeon Benobo scale and start getting household electrics and FTTP right, when there’s no on-site Clerk-of-Works during the construction process and self-certification for completion of many jobs.

    Definate pain in the shareholders fanny stuff to get all the above right first time.

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