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Openreach Set to Boost its UK FTTP Full Fibre Broadband Rollout

Friday, January 26th, 2018 (12:51 pm) - Score 9,111
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Newspaper reports have claimed that Openreach (BT) will next week announce a boost to their existing roll-out of “full fibre” (FTTP) ultrafast broadband services, which could see their current roll-out target of 2 million premises being increased to 3 million within the next two years.

At present the operator’s roll-out of Gigabit capable Fibre-to-the-Premises (FTTP) technology is expected to reach 2 million homes and businesses by 2020, while their separate ‘up to’ 330Mbps capable hybrid-fibre G.fast solution will do 10 million premises by the same date. Despite this, Ofcom and the UK Government have been pushing Openreach to put a lot more “full fibre” into their diet (example).

In response to that the operator has been busy consulting on an aspiration that could see them deploy FTTP to as many as 10 million premises by 2025, which would come at a cost of between £3bn to £6bn (full details). However Openreach has warned that such a deployment may only be possible with co-investment support from other ISPs, as well as softer regulation and reduced logistical barriers (improved planning) etc.

At the last update Openreach claimed to have found “broad support” for their proposal and the operator spoke of a desire to start the engineering work “sooner rather than later,” albeit without setting out precisely what their final network strategy would deliver and how.

Today the FT (paywall) has hinted that we might finally learn what Openreach’s strategy is going to be next week. The report states that the operator is expected to accelerate their current FTTP deployment, which suggests that they could aim to reach 3 million premises by 2020 instead of the currently planned 2 million. However there’s no final word on what they will aim to achieve in crucial 2020 to 2025 period.

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Mark Jackson
By Mark Jackson
Mark is a professional technology writer, IT consultant and computer engineer from Dorset (England), he also founded ISPreview in 1999 and enjoys analysing the latest telecoms and broadband developments. Find me on Twitter, , Facebook and Linkedin.
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87 Responses
  1. Avatar h42422

    When talking about FTTP (and in some cases other technologies as well) expansion plans and numbers, I think it would be important to know how much of the planned expansion will be achieved by cabling new builds with methods suitable for modern technologies, and how much will be conversion of existing copper/aluminium connections.

    If they claim to do X in five years and X is achieved almost entirely by new builds they would need to cable somehow anyway, this hardly shows much initiative.

    To me it seems OR have now an easy way out when pressure groups, MPs etc. demand better broadband. They will respond with a number, but without this split it is entirely possible that all investment will bypass existing homes.

    And if this is the case, then we need to know about it now instead of waiting for five years to realise not a single connection was upgraded, and start planning for such upgrades then.

    Cabling new homes in such a way that they do not need to redo it in a couple of years is a fundamentally sound business principle. I do not think they should be allowed to spin too much positive publicity from this common sense / low hanging fruits approach. If they indeed plan to do something else, providing numbers to prove that would help convince profound sceptics like myself…

    • Avatar Joe

      New homes alone woulnd’t get your anywhere near 1m by 2020.

    • I believe Openreach’s current 2 million goal is about half residential (mostly new builds) and half business. A huge amount of their rollout so far has been to new builds, including many developments that have been in-progress for awhile.

    • Avatar AndyH

      Mark is correct. The current goal is split around 50/50 between residential and business (high streets/business parks).

      To put the new homes into perspective, since the launch of the free FTTP for developments with 30+ homes in Nov 16, around 160k plots on some 1,200 sites had been signed up to scheme some 11 months later. So whilst a decent chunk of the 1 million residential target will come from new homes, it will not be exclusively new homes.

      If you Google ‘BT raises targets for ultrafast fibre optic broadband’, you can view the article without the need for a FT subscription.

    • Avatar Andy

      If every new home build was covered by FTTP it would only add c200k Premises passed /year. So about 600k between now and the end of 2020.

      If Openreach plans to add an extra 2.5m premises by the end of 2020 then new build homes only account for about 25%.

  2. Avatar AndyH

    One of the interesting things in the FT article was that apparently Vodafone were in talks to co-invest in a full fibre network with Openreach, which looks to have been killed off when Vodafone announced they were investing with Cityfibre.

    • Avatar TheManStan

      Which is folly, OR shouldn’t stop talking to a potential business partner because they plan to 20% of the market with another entity… there is still 80% still to talk about…

    • Avatar GNewton

      How exactly can a company co-invest with Openreach when the latter doesn’t even own the network assets, and then be in competition with BT?

    • @GNewton. Naturally Vodafone would probably demand some degree of exclusivity over any jointly built infrastructure (e.g. initial sole use of the infrastructure and first access to the fastest speeds etc.), which might upset rival ISPs in a market where Openreach is required to provide fair and equal access.

      But that’s all part of the challenge, finding a solution and partners to help deliver it. We’ve had the question, now we’re waiting for the answer.

    • Avatar AndyH

      Openreach made clear in their FTTP consultation that there were two possible models for shared models:

      1) Take or pay – with a commitment from CPs for a certain volume of take up prior to deployment

      2) Co-investment – where ownership would be shared of the new networks

      It was also pointed out that any shared commercial investment in FTTP would be subject to both competition law and regulatory approval. I would imagine that any deal is likely to receive an objection from Sky.

    • Avatar Joe

      “It was also pointed out that any shared commercial investment in FTTP would be subject to both competition law and regulatory approval. I would imagine that any deal is likely to receive an objection from Sky.”

      All true but its almost peverse that we have given ouselves (or the EU for some parts) a regulatory system almost designed for inertia and delay and allowing for litigation to delay changes for years

  3. Avatar Tim

    Would this possibly include some EO lines? There seems to be no other solution for many of the remaining EO lines.

  4. Avatar Simon

    Never mind it’ll only be in the towns they love so much – always is!

  5. Avatar ASH

    They should just focus on G-fast, That’s fast enough for the next 5 years, Then 5G will probably replace fibre. No point investing all that money in fibre if people won’t use it in the future.

    • Avatar Tim

      G-fast is only any use for properties close to a cabinet. For anyone not close enough, or not connected to a cabinet at all, G-fast is no solution at all. My personal view is that they should concentrate on lines that aren’t connected to a cabinet at all!

  6. Avatar A_Builder

    My feeling is that this will be interesting and that when it is announced it will be much more deployment ready than people think.

    OR don’t have the luxury of time with many others building pure fibre fast there are whole swathes of the country where overbuild makes little or no sense. So they will have to go from whining that they need handouts, they lost the argument there as others can make it work without the handouts so the ROI is there, to doing what the others are already doing which is building pure fibre.

    I’m afraid that OR by whining and looking for handouts/pushing the investment decision into the long grass as much as possible have given themselves a CAPEX mountain to climb. But it was solely their commercial decision not to start an long term FTTP roll earlier and spread the CAPEX over more years. And as with all these things in civils they never really get cheaper as time goes by: they only get cheaper when you get on with it at reasonable continuous scale when the civils subbies really get to understand the costs they are tending for AND you can offer a good long term workflow so that plant finance etc can be optimised on the back of it: I do this for a living.

    I’m working with an alt net to bring fibre to an industrial estate and to be honest it is going pretty smoothly and they are not asking for any handouts just sign ups. So if you can show the demand from a bunch of businesses the fibre does seem to come to you these days.

    • Avatar AndyH

      Show me where Openreach have asked for handouts.

    • Avatar Fastman

      be interesting to see what choice once its done (and the shine wears of) they have and how much you charge for them to access the service up front and its ongoing cost — you might find its more complicated and signifcantly more of a challenge and an expense than you might think

    • Avatar GNewton

      @AndyH: BDUK, BT Community Fibre projects, etc ?

    • Avatar Sunil Sood

      I am not sure that Openreach would have been able to build a FTTP network as you suggest – I simply don’t think there was enough internal or external capacity to be able to do so with the FTTC rollout going on.

      Also, if OR had not decided to do FTTC but go straight to FTTP, increases in coverage would have been much slower leading to both much more criticism of OR as well as leaving the UK further behind economically.

      Frankly, it’s about time a sunset date was set on LLU ADSL – that would probably do more to generate additional FTTP than anything else

    • Avatar AndyH

      @ GNewton – BT announced their commercial deployment for superfast would reach 2/3 of the country and they achieved this target. No one in Whitehall was complaining about this because politicians knew that no one would rollout superfast broadband to 100% because it would be comercially unviable.

      As for the Community Partnerships, where exactly is BT begging for money? Last I checked, BT was committing funds to a co-funding scheme to help communities that were not commercially viable.

    • Avatar Tim

      @SunilSood “it’s about time a sunset date was set on LLU ADSL” – some of us are still waiting for that!

    • Avatar Fastman

      Gnewton — cap in hand really (BDUK all been through formal bidding process)

      both BDUK and Community fibre use the principle of gap funding, the BDUK are part Central/Local and Matched investment from Openreach (in line with state aid intensity Rules) whereas Openreach community fibre I understand is where the community fund only the element over and above the Openreach Commercial case for Deployment of the structure in the area in question(so each community illustration is specific to that community and very dependant on what each community consists and so Community A could look very different to Community B and therefore the gaps for each of those could be vastly different

    • Avatar Fastman

      @SunilSood “it’s about time a sunset date was set on LLU ADSL” – some of us are still waiting for that! the problem is that disadvantages all the service provider that only offer LLU which Is probably not much short of half the circa 550+ Communication provider that openreach support — so don’ seen that happening any time soon

    • Avatar Tim

      When I said “some of us are still waiting for that” I meant we are still waiting for LLU ADSL, not it being phased out. Non-llu exchanges have very few ISPs to choose from these days as many ISPs have dropped support for non-LLU exchanges (e.g Sky, Vodafone, TalkTalk etc).

    • Avatar CarlT

      ADSL, LLU being part of it, needs to die in a fire. Sky / TalkTalk / Vodafone need to be told it is happening and to get over it. Sky and TalkTalk especially have been profoundly obstructive in an attempt to sweat their MSANs for longer.

      Further LLU deployment is unlikely now.

    • Avatar Joe

      I agree Carl but we’d probably have 5yrs of litigation if they tried

    • Avatar 125us

      Are the altnets who are rolling out fibre wholesaling what they build to others and only earning, in effect, line rental for the infrastructure they build? That’s the key difference – £50 a month per customer connected versus £10.

  7. Avatar Mike

    Looks like I’ll be stuck on 50Mbps until 2030 :/

  8. Avatar A_Builder

    @AndyH

    OR were looking to surcharge all users for the fibre rollout.

    That is in plenty of OR press handouts and statements. I don’t think that is a controversial comment.

    • Avatar AndyH

      That’s not a handout. This is what BT have calculated would be required to meet the IRR target to make the capital investment of several billion pounds.

    • Avatar A Builder

      @AndyH
      January 26, 2018 at 8:17 pm
      “That’s not a handout. This is what BT have calculated would be required to meet the IRR target to make the capital investment of several billion pounds.”

      OK it is what is needed when BT/OR have engaged in what, we in business, would describe as a wilful lack of investment over many many years. And lets face it Mike T at OR ha admitted that publicly. What I do find a bit more hopeful about Mike T is that he is actually prepared to express and face some degree of reality, OK tempered by the size of the money tree, rather than hide is a copper lined cloud. Stuff is happening, too little, too late but the wheels are now turning. But there again you do have public comments by the major BT shareholders that they are happy to see BT invest more in the network. Even the shareholders see fibre rollout as a worthwhile investment.

      But the OR fibre wheels are only turning because Giga, Community, B4RN, Hyper etc al are building like crazy now. And people are queuing up to back the alt nets because the number work. OK they have different models and a snatching low hanging fruit but it only makes the point more clearly that OR should have Fibred the low handing fruit years ago as there is a compelling commercial case that works.

    • Avatar CarlT

      The commercial case for Openreach is quite different from the case for a new operator. Openreach only get incremental wholesale revenue on whatever they were receiving over copper. In many cases overbuilding FTTC this incremental revenue is virtually zero. Not exactly a compelling business case.

      Openreach can on the whole deploy FTTP more cheaply than anyone else but they have to balance it against minimal additional income. A Hyperoptic or Virgin Media get all the cash, an Openreach sees a cut go to the retail operation delivering the service and likely another cut for the wholesale provider of that retailer.

      Now, if you were okay with BT Group keeping the FTTP to themselves for a while this would change.

  9. Avatar A_Builder

    @Fastman
    January 26, 2018 at 6:18 pm
    “be interesting to see what choice once its done (and the shine wears of) they have and how much you charge for them to access the service up front and its ongoing cost — you might find its more complicated and signifcantly more of a challenge and an expense than you might think”

    Well the lock in is 12 months are we are about 150m from an FTTC cab so if we get fed up FTTPoD is always possible but we all want symmetric. So options are open if all fails.

    I will report back on our actual experience.

    • Avatar Fastman

      so 100 U/P Down or Gig Up/Down you could have done a CFP for FTTP on the park and shared the cost with managing agent to cover in installs / initial Gap and the each person dealt with their own service that would have covered the whole park and been far better commercial proposition to the park than a FOd order

    • Avatar A_Builder

      @Fastman

      We are not using FTTPoD nor are we paying a penny for the fibre infrastructure.

      We are only tied in for 12 months but CPM is fixed for 36 months.

      It is a well known and established alt net that has major projects in the area that are live. They know what they are doing.

      We simply couldn’t wait for OR to not deliver again.

    • Avatar Fastman

      my question is did you actually ask openreach

    • Avatar CarlT

      Everyone wants symmetrical services? Interesting. Most people on Openreach FTTP are on either the 40/10 or 80/20 service, VM had to reintroduce their 50Mb service.

      You’re in an extraordinary community indeed if 150m from an FTTC cabinet and everyone is chomping at the bit for symmetrical FTTP.

    • Avatar GNewton

      A symmetric 50/50 service is far more use than a 80/20 one for many.

    • Avatar CarlT

      Strange that CPs haven’t been banging down Openreach’s doors demanding symmetrical services if that’s the case.

    • Avatar Fastman

      interesting I once sat in a room where a bloke at the back of the room told me he could not run his business at 80/20 and needed 50/50 !!!!!! hhhhmmm hype swallowed hook line and sinker

    • Avatar A_Builder

      Yes we did ask OR and they wanted quite a lot of money to build the an all glass network.

      If you are running a business with 25 people in an office and/or running an e-retail operation with real time needs snapshotting servers for DR compliance reasons and backing up all those workstations at regular intervals like sensible people trying to run responsible businesses you cannot do that over 80/20 connections.

      One of the businesses is a fashion business where the post lots of product video online daily. You cannot post real time 4K video over an 80/20.

      These are real example of wheee 80/20 and even bonded 80/20 are not good enough.

      Some of the units are also on EO lines and without going into the saga OR had quoted me £5k a number of years ago to move them to the PCP that is against the exchange wall. All this involved doing was changing the junctioning in one single manhole as there were enough spare pairs. I agreed to pay them to do it. Waited and waited and they stopped responding to contact. So I gave up. To be honest I don’t trust OR to follow through on commitments based on a lot of experience at a number of sites. Gernerally I would characterise OR as lazy minded and not accountable for their actions to the customer.

      And that is why ultimately why OR as a business will fail as it is contemptuous of the varying needs of customers. Personally want as little as possible to do with BT/OR as they just waste my time. And the same for Virgin.

      BT/OR have relied for too long on the difficult/expensive excuses. Well run businesses do difficult and expensive things. Where they can’t then the leadership needs to be changed so they can deliver or the business will ultimately fail.

    • Avatar AndyH

      @ A_Builder

      You speak for the handful of people in the country that want synchronous speeds. It’s not on the radar one bit for BT, ISPs and broadband journalists – no one is calling for it.

      Even last week at the ISP Forum, no one mentioned synchronous speeds. The fact that ISPs wanted to keep FoD as 330/30 rather than move to 330/50 (despite the same rental cost) is testament to how little the demand there is for synchronous speeds.

  10. Avatar Tyneside

    I live on a Persimmon estate (started 4 years ago nearly complete) of about 300 houses in Newcastle Upon Tyne. No FTTC here just ADSL, I am lucky to get 6Mbps.

    On another current phase https://www.persimmonhomes.com/brunton-grange-10171 started 2 years ago you are lucky to get more than 1.5Mbps

    • Avatar AndyH

      Brunton Grange has had FTTC for over 3 years.

      Areas within Newcastle Great Park without superfast broadband are being upgraded for FTTP at the moment. If you post a postcode, I can check yours.

    • Avatar Fastman

      hhmmm the ubiquitous wideopen 21 & 28 !!!

      may be worth having a conversaition with the developer or Newcastle great park management company or both

  11. Avatar Tyneside

    The older parts of Brunton Grange are on cab 23 and are FTTC but the current areas in build are on cab 28 and they are not. I am on cab 21, openreach website says “we are exploring solutions”. 3 or 4 houses on my streets say in scope for fttp but not mine.

    • Avatar Fastman

      hhmmm the ubiquitous wideopen 21 & 28 !!!
      may be worth having a conversation with the developer or Newcastle great park management company or both

  12. Avatar Fastman

    hey are only on FTTC as that 23 was enabled by BDUk –all the houses on that development were provided only with copper which is why only 23 got enabled

  13. Avatar Tyneside

    At the moment a local ISP which deals mostly with commercial services is proposing a FTTP service, serving the 21 cab area. It looks like the advert flyers are going out this weekend. Shame that neither the MP, the Council or Openreach are able to give anyone on the estate any idea of what is planned.

    • Avatar Fastman

      so lets hope that have actually are registered with Ofcom approval to act as a service provider thats a long process and takes months if not years to do all of that — don’t think there is any succssesful wifi that that moved to FTTP and actually delivered FTTP and they could do it 1 of 2 ways (they could dig up all of the estate !!!!! or they could ask for a duct staring agreement with Openreach but that’s another long process and subject to a commercial agreement (and all the Ofcom stuff being in place) so the question is have they started any of this and what route are they proposing and also i would strongly reccommend you go ask either the Newcastle great park management company or your developer that question on the estate any idea of what is planned – or what cost is required to get it here

  14. Avatar Tyneside

    Thanks for the advice, they do sound like they know what they are doing though and I believe they have discussed this with the NGP consortium.

    https://wildcard.net.uk/greatpark/

    • Avatar Fastman

      i would strongly reccommend you go ask either the Newcastle great park management company or your developer that question on the estate any idea of what was planned by openreach – or what cost is required to get it here

  15. Avatar Fastman

    this is from their website As we will be utilising existing ducting the impact will be minimal, we will not require roads to be dug up to install ducting. We will however need to install our street side cabinet and associated infrastructure which will require civil engineering works, this is likely to be in the verge and of minimal impact.

    they could ask for a duct staring agreement with Openreach but that’s another long process and subject to a commercial agreement so have they started that process

  16. Avatar Tyneside

    NGP management company view is “its nothing to do with us”. The Council view is “We spent all our grant in 2014-15. With Openreach people have contacted them direct and via the local MP, their response is “there are no plans to upgrade cabinet 21”. Openreach have been doing works in the estate but when approached by residents they give very vague answers about if or when fttp will be available and which streets will be included.

  17. Avatar Fastman

    interesting as 21 is actually 1.4km from most of the premises so it would not be worth upgrading the cabinet so you have to build a new cabinet close to Bobby Robson way and not actually upgrade PCP 21 so that is a very selective view from NGP i would ask NGP what interaction NGP management company has had with Openreach Specifically. Please note the local openreach people on the ground will have have no view any discussions with NGP about any discussion or if any commercial conversations had taken place

    • Avatar Tyneside

      OK thanks. There has been an openreach engineer working all day in a van on the estate on a Sunday? Someone was saying that openreach still need to install the fibre from the exchange. I wonder how long it will be before it is available to order. The openreach website still says “we are exploring solutions” which is disappointing. I am guessing the reason for the current poor speed is that the line goes all the way to 21 before coming back again. By car the estate is only 1.2 miles from the exchange but we get 6Mbps.

  18. Avatar Tim

    BT need to start investing in the areas with the worst service first. Those that were left behind because of distance from the FTTC cabinet, left unable to order FTTC or would get less than 10Mbps. Build FTTP out to these homes and enable others passed on the way makes perfect sense! Then that gets FTTP started on all cabinets with lines longer than 1.5-2km+. When there is demand nearer the cabinet they already have FTTP plant near by so it becomes very easy, cheap and quick to expand from there.

    If BT keep on only investing in matching Virgin Media’s foot print or trying to take on Hyperopic, B4RN or gigaclear they will be wasting their time and money. After all what idiot would choose BT when they can choose a service that isn’t “up-to” xMbps due to distance.

    • Avatar spurple

      Interesting. You think that people who care about sports, and who value the discounts available to take mobile, broadbayand TV from one provider are idiots.

      Lol.

    • Avatar Tim

      I didn’t say anything about sports.

      But to be fair I don’t give a sh!t about sports so you have a good point there. Well done on reading between the lines

    • Avatar AnotherTim

      It isn’t just distance that prevents FTTC being an option – I have an EO line which would probably achieve 20Mbps if enabled rerouted via a cabinet, but Fastershire refused to pay towards rerouting any lines that wouldn’t achieve 30Mbps. That has condemned me to a 5 year wait until FTTP may be deployed (2 years gone, so only 3 years to wait now…). Many EO lines are in a similar position.
      BTW there appears to be a confusing number of Tims, so I’ve change my name.

    • Avatar Fastman

      If BT keep on only investing in matching Virgin Media’s foot print or trying to take on Hyperopic, B4RN or gigaclear they will be wasting their time and money. After all what idiot would choose BT when they can choose a service that isn’t “up-to” xMbps due to distance.

      Really think you misinformed -B4RN cover about 400 premises in rural north west Openreach has deployed circa 26 – 28m probably — think you been listening to the hype for too long

      hyper optics only interest in blocks of flats

    • Avatar Fastman

      tim Build FTTP out to these homes and enable others passed on the way makes perfect sense! Then that gets FTTP started on all cabinets with lines longer than 1.5-2km+. When there is demand nearer the cabinet they already have FTTP plant near by so it becomes very easy, cheap and quick to expand from there.

      I assume you have no understanding on how you build an FTTP network — you have to get back to an aggregation node and then back to a headend – its irrelevant where the cabinet it as FTTP does not use any of the fibre that is set for the cabinet its a completely different way of building the network

      its like oh there an Lane near me so lets turn that into a motorway !!!!! because it a road

    • Avatar 125us

      “If BT keep on only investing in matching Virgin Media’s foot print or trying to take on Hyperopic, B4RN or gigaclear they will be wasting their time and money.”

      Areas of proven demand, that can be served profitably? Your argument is that they’d be better going for the customers they’ll lose money on first?

    • Avatar GNewton

      @Fastman: “Build FTTP out to these homes and enable others passed on the way makes perfect sense!” That’s what the new upcoming FTTPoD is supposed to accomplish, though it will probably come with an inflated install charge.

    • Avatar AndyH

      @ GNewton

      Completely incorrect. Premises would need to be in close proximity to the PON for planners to include them in the build, not random houses along the way over several kilometres.

      As for the “inflated install charge”, FoD will be installed in line with the ECCs. Not doubt you take issue with them.

    • Avatar Fastman

      this is the scaenario you are proposing

      Dear Mr newton the cost of your FOD cct is XK (lease note this is because you are paying yourself to allow 10 other people to connect for nothing due to your massive generosity sorry there only you where you are but the 10 people 3 km up the road from you are very grateful now they can connect for Y even though you have no idea who they are

    • Avatar Ultraspeedy

      Same old statements from BT, different year…
      https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2013/04/bt-abandons-native-uk-fttp-broadband-rollout-for-fttpod-and-fttc.html

      They could at least come up with some new BS FTTP figures to throw about.

    • Avatar Fastman

      ultra

      look at the figures

      Commercial investment on commercial programme 2,5bn !!!!! That’s a Fact
      now getting towards 2m FTTP — old way of doing FTTP way to expensive which is now Openreach uses Connectorised Block and FTTP growing all the time
      circa 25 – 28m FTTC

      done in less than years !!!!!

    • Avatar Ultraspeedy

      “look at the figures”

      I have they keep touting FTTP for 2 Million+ premises and have done for years.

      They keep touting 2.5 Billion investment for FTTP and have done for years.

      They are beginning to sound like a scratched record, or they just live in a fantasy world where if you repeat the same diatribe over and over they think it will become true.

      “now getting towards 2m FTTP”

      Towards is NOT 2M or over like they keep quoting and have since 2009… That is almost a decade now. Their self PR pieces on here are nothing more than hot air, wastes of space.

      News item space should be for actual news and developments, not meaningless figures mentioned for years.

    • Avatar AndyH

      @ Ultraspeedy

      “I have they keep touting FTTP for 2 Million+ premises and have done for years.”

      The 2 mil target was only announced at the end of 2016.

      “They keep touting 2.5 Billion investment for FTTP and have done for years.”

      BT have never stated they have invested 2.5 million in FTTP. Their commercial programme was always a mix of FTTC and FTTP.

      “Towards is NOT 2M or over like they keep quoting and have since 2009… That is almost a decade now. Their self PR pieces on here are nothing more than hot air, wastes of space.”

      BT have not been quoting this number for the last decade. They scaled back commercial FTTP deployment plans back in 2013 because of the cost and timescale involved, favouring a wider and faster rollout with FTTC.

    • Avatar NGA for all

      AndyH, Fastman, On extending fibres into rural, ..with at least £1bn+ public funds available to contract to solve final 5%+ how do you propose to take fibre further?

    • Avatar GNewton

      Just to clear with any mis-understanding on BTs upcoming FTTPoD changes:

      Deductions will be made on the build charge for:
      – Each FTTP on Demand order in the PON build
      – Any additional premise passed by the PON build

      Multiple FTTP on Demand orders in a geographic cluster can be processed simultaneously:
      – The build charge deduction per PON will apply for each FTTP on Demand order
      – Provides an opportunity for the build charge to be shared by multiple end customers

      See https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/updates/briefings/ultrafastfibreaccessbriefings/ultrafastfibreaccessbriefingarticles/nga200717.do

    • Avatar Ultraspeedy

      “The 2 mil target was only announced at the end of 2016.”

      No it wasnt they claimed 2.5 Million homes as far back as 2009…
      https://www.ispreview.co.uk/story/2009/10/09/bt-doubles-next-gen-uk-ftth-broadband-rollout-and-reveals-more-detail.html
      QUOTE”2.5 Million homes covered by their fastest 100Mbps Fibre to the Home (FTTH / FTTP)”

      “BT have not been quoting this number for the last decade.”

      Dunno what year you are living in but its 2018 for me and announcements made in 2009 by BT would make them (As i correctly stated and not what you decided i said) “ALMOST” a decade ago.

      Ill ignore your obvious other cockup and “BT have never stated they have invested 2.5 million in FTTP”. Probably because yeah they probably haven’t. Like you get confused between the term billion and million.

      Much like what you and the regular BT defending crew have to say on here, it was of course utter tosh.

    • Avatar AndyH

      @ NGA for all – No country on this planet is rolling out FTTP to 100% of the hardest to reach areas. The funding might be there (I doubt your numbers), however it’s a question of value for money and up to the LAs/government how/what/if they want to achieve the final 5%.

      @ GNewton – And the point in copying/pasting is? I’m sure you’re aware of the subsequent detailed clarifications from Openreach and their presentations to the stakeholder working groups. Also, I hope you’re aware of the distance limitations with connectorised FTTP.

      @ Ultraspeedy – You shouldn’t let BT work you up so much, it’s not healthy.

    • Avatar Mike

      Good old BT the liars of the ISP world and only large organisation that has to employ Muppets to defend the lies.

    • Avatar NGA for all

      AndyH Not discussing 100% but the £1bn to go further. You can see £709m in the recorded BDUK pipeline, add £200m to the Scots project, £30m for Essex Phase 4, and expect a whole lot more from the unallocated capital deferral of £347m (£477m- early release of £130m), not withstanding the BT capital contribution yet to be reported upon.
      BT should have a plan for all of this.

    • Avatar Ultraspeedy

      “@ Ultraspeedy – You shouldn’t let BT work you up so much, it’s not healthy.”

      Disliking lies, liars and those that support them is called morality. I would like to hope you would know it is Far healthier to dislike lies than endorse them.

  19. Avatar Fastman

    interesting — people unhappy about how a commercial Business has decided to spend its own commercial money (which the 2.5bn was)

    • Avatar NGA for all

      Spare us, the £2.5bn is the press release, the commercial capital for just under 50,000 cabs and fibre paths, and Hop was between £1.2-£1.4bn, very welcome. You may have other programme expenditure and opex but these are not capital.

    • Avatar Gadget

      And those non-capital costs still contribute to the cost of providing the deployment

    • Avatar AndyH

      @ NGA

      BT never stated that they were investing £2.5bn of capital.

      You’ve been disputing BT’s numbers for years, but you’ve not produced any evidence.

    • Avatar Ultraspeedy

      “BT never stated that they were investing £2.5bn of capital.”

      https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2013/04/bt-abandons-native-uk-fttp-broadband-rollout-for-fttpod-and-fttc.html

      “BT has unsurprisingly abandoned their original 2009 commitment to make ultrafast fibre optic FTTP broadband ISP services available to 2.5 million premises …”

      “At the time the operator promised that 1 million premises would be covered by their ultrafast (330Mbps) fibre optic based Fibre-to-the-Premises service, which was even revised upwards to 2.5m in October 2009”

      “Since then the investment has increased (£2.5bn)…”

      “…the FTTP project didn’t go quite according to plan, which is reflected by the fact that, at the end of 2012, the service had passed just 100,000 premises…”

      That to me looks like they stated 2.5bn total investment (IE for FTTC and FTTP) and 2.5 million premises were supposed to be FTTP.

      As it actually turned out, here neigh on 10 years later they failed on both targets.

      The new daydream 10 Million target by 2025 is quite funny “Openreach has warned that such a deployment may only be possible with co-investment support from other ISPs”

      Sniffing round for money to fail on their delivery figures again is it? Laughable to even think anyone will co-invest with them, i bet they are really ticked off Voda went another joint route, BT/Openreach would of loved to bag that cash cow eh?

      Oh well the cycle repeats, back in another 5-10 years to see them fail on their pathetic statements again.

  20. Avatar Imran

    Hi, I was wondering if anyone can help by giving me advise.

    I moved into my new house 15 months ago. I was told only I can get ADSL. I went for it and it gives me 14mb down and 800kbps upload. With that upload speed I really cant work from home. I was told I cannot get fibre on that line and telephone number as it is a EO line. I then paid for a brand new telephone line and managed to speak to the engineer to please stick this new line in a fibre cabinet. After 12 months this line got activated and on the new line I got fibre braodband. The only problem is it gives me 3mb down and 1mb upload. which is worse than i already have except a little better in upload.
    The problem I have is that if you go to a service provider they say you get fibre and open reach are not ready to do anything about it.

    Who’s door do i need to knock to get a decent speed. It looks like if I do not do anything ill be stuck like this for the next 10 years

  21. Avatar Alex

    Openreach well keep pushing broadband down an old copper wire for as long as they can. They’ve done trials where speeds have exceeded 1 gig and they’ll exceed that speed again and keep delivering over copper until fibre roll out is complete.

    It’s going to take a good 25-30 years at the rate they’re going to deliver FTTP to the majority. By then Openreach my not exist..

    With all the other comms providers shaking hands and agreeing to work together on building their own fibre network Openreach should start serious and heavy investment into FTTP or they’ll drop a bollock and be left out to dry by the likes of Vodafone and their partners.

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