Hedon and Preston Protestors Seek 10 Year Boycott of MS3’s Broadband Poles
Complaints about the erection of new telegraph poles are nothing new in the UK. But one growing campaign – involving residents of Hedon and South Preston – appears to be taking their dispute with full fibre network builder MS3 to a new level, by organising a 10-year boycott of broadband ISPs that sell their services.
At present MS3, which is backed by investment from Asterion, is busy deploying a 10Gbps capable full fibre (FTTP) broadband ISP network across parts of Lincolnshire and Yorkshire in England. Some 106,000 premises (RFS) have already been covered (c. 150,000 built), but the operator ultimately aims to reach 535,000 premises across the North of England by the end of 2025 (here).
However, in recent weeks, the operator has faced a number of growing street protests from residents and sympathetic councillors in parts of Hedon and South Preston where the new network is currently being deployed. As is so often the case these days, the anger centres around MS3’s deployment of telecoms poles to run their new fibre cables.
Building poles, which are a common sight across much of the UK, is usually much more cost-effective and less disruptive to local residents than digging trenches for underground cables. The lower cost impact can often also mean the difference between building into an area or skipping it entirely.
Nevertheless, not everybody is a fan of poles. Complaints often focus on their negative visual appearance, concerns about the risk of damage from major storms (example), and a lack of prior consultation – poles are built via Permitted Development rights and don’t have to go through the usual planning process.
In the case of the two aforementioned communities, households are now being asked by the action group “Save our Streets – Going Underground” to sign-up to a pledge form, declaring their intention to boycott MS3 for at least ten years should the poles be deployed (see the Hedon Blog). An extract from that form can be seen below:
HOUSEHOLD PLEDGE:
This household pledges not to use services, delivered by MS3 Networks, via new telegraph poles. Should poles be deployed, this boycott of MS3 Networks and internet service providers (ISPs) that choose to use telegraph poles, shall remain active for ten years from this date and will not be reviewed until October 2033.
…
This boycott will end upon receipt of a written commitment from the Chief Executive Officer of MS3 Networks that telegraph poles will not be deployed. In the event of telegraph pole deployment, only their removal will see the end of this active boycott.
The period of the boycott will see residents and businesses actively encouraged not to sign up to those ISPs that choose to use telegraph poles, favouring instead those ISPs that choose established underground networks. During the period of boycott, all goodwill and friendly relations with boycotted ISPs will cease.
In addition, the group recently launched a national petition to request a change in Government legislation, which much more broadly calls for “telecommunication installations in the public realm to go through the local planning process” and hopes to gather 10,000 signatures over the next few weeks (so far they’re at around 4,000) – this is enough to attract an official response from the government.
However, the petition goes far beyond poles and would cause a significant delay to deployments of both mobile and full fibre broadband networks (both overground and underground), as well as rising costs that would impact coverage – affecting those in some of the hardest to reach locations the most.
The government would be unlikely to pay this much heed, as any restrictions on the build would seriously damage their own targets for digital infrastructure, while ignoring the many people who are still seeking access to faster broadband and better mobile connectivity. Quite a lot of people would be happy to see poles if it meant they could access full fibre etc.
Tony Jopling, COO at MS3, said previously:
“MS3’s mission is to overcome the challenges local people have endured for decades due to a lack of choice of broadband provider.
Our team is keen to work with local residents to help them understand the benefits of both pole and underground infrastructure and how it enables MS3 to offer affordable, faster, fairer broadband to communities. MS3 Networks completes all building work in line with the Electronic Communications Code, Schedule 3A Communications Act 2003 and the voluntary Code of Practice: Cabinet Siting and Pole Siting Code of Practice.
This sets out that MS3 is legally permitted to install new infrastructure both above and below ground, providing notice is given. Installing poles will allow us to quickly ensure local residents and business have access to cost savings and choice of broadband provider.
MS3 has a comprehensive community engagement strategy to ensure the benefits of pole deployment are understood, and so residents can learn more about the work we’re doing ahead of its commencement. In addition, we have built relationships with local councils and are in frequent contact with councillors to update them on our build strategy and make them aware of the work we are planning.
Our aim is always to create a dialogue between the team at MS3 and the local community, and we are more than happy to answer any questions local people have. We acknowledge that broadband infrastructure in Hull and its surrounding areas is extremely unique, and this comes with its own set of challenges.”
Naturally, we’d all prefer it if broadband, power and mobile infrastructure was totally invisible, but that’s not always economically feasible because underground deployments tend to be significantly more expensive. In some areas, the choice is thus between either having poles or no fibre at all. It’s worth remembering that the UK is already home to many millions of poles, including for electricity and street lighting.
Back in 2021 we asked 657 of our readers whether they would accept poles to get FTTP, if the alternative meant having to wait years longer for the service, and 71% said they’d take the poles. More recently, we asked 400 readers if, when looking to buy a new house, the existence of poles in the street outside to carry fibre would be a major negative factor in their decision – 77% said no.
However, it’s also clear that poles have a growing tendency to divide public opinion (examples here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here), particularly when built into an area that previously only enjoyed the benefits of underground infrastructure (this is where most of the gripes come from).
But we have seen some similar campaigns succeed in at least discouraging the deployment of new poles by various operators into specific areas, which is probably the best this campaign can hope to achieve. At the same time, it’s worth remembering that there will be those in these areas who will miss out on better broadband connectivity as a result.
Mark is a professional technology writer, IT consultant and computer engineer from Dorset (England), he also founded ISPreview in 1999 and enjoys analysing the latest telecoms and broadband developments. Find me on X (Twitter), Mastodon, Facebook and Linkedin.
« Fern Trading Finalise Consolidation of its UK Full Fibre Networks
BT Trials New Liquid Cooling Tech for UK Network Switches »
Leave a Reply
Privacy Notice: Please note that news comments are anonymous, which means that we do NOT require you to enter any real personal details to post a message. By clicking to submit a post you agree to storing your comment content, display name, IP, email and / or website details in our database, for as long as the post remains live.
Only the submitted name and comment will be displayed in public, while the rest will be kept private (we will never share this outside of ISPreview, regardless of whether the data is real or fake). This comment system uses submitted IP, email and website address data to spot abuse and spammers. All data is transferred via an encrypted (https secure) session.
NOTE 1: Sometimes your comment might not appear immediately due to site cache (this is cleared every few hours) or it may be caught by automated moderation / anti-spam.
NOTE 2: Comments that break our rules, spam, troll or post via known fake IP/proxy servers may be blocked or removed.
Personally I can understand the reticence to have poles especially if present services are all underground already, which from the wording of this post suggests it is. Having had a client in this area, I also strongly suspect all existing services are underground so totally get the complaints.
At the end of the day, if you can’t win over a community, then you just have to move on and skip it. But what I don’t want to see is a reintroduction of the old red tape, on a national scale, that made it difficult to deploy new fibre networks in the first place.
Mark, I agree with the sentiment, however in these areas where everything is already underground, really the new alt nets should be trying to use the existing BT and Virgin conduits. Most of these areas are relatively new, so blocked conduits are relatively rare.
A M – you’ll be shocked to discover just how much existing Openreach copper infrastructure is direct-in-ground rather than ducted. For altnets this can leave the commercial choice of either putting up their own poles or not serving the location, especially given the current cost of finance.
There are no Virgin or BT conduits in this area, A M.
If that’s what it takes to get a company to listen to residents, then fair enough.
Power to the people.
???
This doesn’t affect them as far as what we on this site might consider a reasonable objection such as blocking views of something ect (of could balanced against the national need for fibre)
This only peak privilege to want underground fibre but also fibre costs comparable to other nationwide deployments (often via poles.) which is unsustainable and impossible to deliver on costs.
I would say as mark has that this would discourage deployment however government has given telcos some power over this (poles) and I suggest they use it fully to complete deployment we cannot afford to greatly increase inequality (such as access to good internet) than by allowing these idiots to influence our future.
As far as the boycott goes, I personally don’t care and argue the company shouldn’t care because the need for fibre will always grow in the future + there might also be consolidation.
I read about a LGBT group organising a similar boycott of any ISPs using Cityfibre’s network.
They are protesting over the part ownership of Cityfibre by the UAE government (who own Mubadala) and the UAE’s persecution of LGBT people and general human rights issues.
Each to their own.
I read a lot about obsessed with CityFibre’s ownership who writes about it on every article related to them on here and even some not remotely related. Each to their own.
That sounds like they’re reaching a bit doesn’t it?
@Andrew
Hmmm, is that like a ‘reach around’?
@Simon
No, lol. They’re just being a bit… well, mental. they’re not supporting something because of something else
It’s like me not horse riding because some people absuse their horses
@XGS I guess for some people UAE’s ownership of Cityfibre is controversial. People are entitled to their opinion.
Why they just don’t go to Qatar or UAE and protest there?
Protesting something because it affects your neighbourhood vs protesting something because you’re part of a cult is not comparable
I guess Cityfibre just hope the protest doesn’t gain traction as there a lot of them about.
Based based, love Qatar and UAE
@4chAnon – Vladimir Putin loves the UAE too as they’re helping him bypass sanctions, supplying him with electronic components he needs for military equipment.
“not being able to see a telegraph pole” is not a protected characteristic.
Shows how this country is deeply rotted and nimby to the core. If we can’t even put up telegraph poles, then there’s zero chance we’ll be able to build the wind and solar farms, or high speed rail we need
>wind and solar farms, or high speed rail we need
Why do you think Central government makes the decisions for “Nationally Significant” infrastructure projects, it’s because we can’t have nice things.
Fortunately, they are able to make somewhat rational decisions (as far as the planning inspectorate).
However it needs without being said it is not ideal to have this problem.
The boycott as written is meaningless because no-one uses ‘telegraph’ poles. There are a few left beside canals and railways but ones installed for telephony or broadband are absolutely not them. There are telephone or sometimes ‘utility’ poles. My electricity is delivered overhead but not from a telegraph pole.
Who’s ducts are in Hedon? I guess BT or KCOM?
KCOM have FTTP available in the area so did they use Openreach PIA, already have their own ducts? or lay new ducts?
Locally there are MS3, Connexin and Grain rolling out networks, if none are using KCOM infrastructure why aren’t they sharing amongst themselves?
Is there “value” in how much of their own ducts and poles they deploy?
I’m not completely against poles, we have poles for KCOM and MS3, and I’ve switched to an MS3 provider for higher speeds at a fraction of the cost.
I do think it’s not ideal if we eventually end up with 3 or 4 separate poles.
I also don’t like the way MS3 string poles together overhead, zig-zaging along streets instead ducts to each pole – it would have looked much neater.
I don’t know what the solution is but why have some networks in the country used a lot of Openreach PIA and seemingly no one wants to use KCOM – are prices not controlled by Ofcom? Will the recent article about Ofcom ECC consulation make any difference?
Hull so KCOM. KCOM have FTTP available there and have said that they never received a PIA application for this area from MS3.
Just mad to be putting up piles rather than use existing ducts.
Who did you go with Miken?
I went with Squirrel.
MS3 had a congestion/capacity issue causing massive packet loss and unusable speeds that took 2-3 weeks to get resolved which wasn’t a great initial experience – I could have got out of the contract, but it wasn’t Squirrels fault. Luckily, I still had the KCOM connection to use instead.
Squirrel support have been great to deal with though and them appearing to be quite switched on / technical in my enquiries was one of the reasons I went with them.
DHCP, Static IPv4 + IPv6 (/56) included.
Not using the provided router, using OPNsense on a N100 device.
It has been working well for the last couple of weeks since that was resolved though.
– A bit concerned that they seem to have a relatively small amount of LINX/LONAP capacity but if they upgrade it when required it is not a problem.
– They upstream with Cogent and Hydra, not many ISPs seem to use the former – I guess they are just cheap, but I haven’t noticed any problems.
– Obviously, everything routes via London now so minimum 7.5ms latency rather than KCOM which has local caches and sends some traffic to Manchester (4ms) it makes no difference since anything on the caches or Manchester isn’t latency sensitive anyway – not that 4ms makes any difference.
– As mentioned, I don’t believe they have their own Netflix/YouTube/Akamai caches like KCOM but again it doesn’t matter if they have the capacity and it’s probably something they’ll do when necessary – KCOM make a big deal of them operating caches on recorded messages when you ring to cancel.
– There was a brief (1 second) power cut a few weeks ago; MS3 went down KCOM didn’t, so maybe a less resilient network.
KCOMs latest bill was £66.48 for 400/80, out of contract and did include UK calls. KCOM would have negotiated to a better deal for their 900/180 package, I’d be surprised if they would have done £35, I’d already signed up for MS3 anyway and didn’t want to deal with the yearly price rises, out of contract jumps, and new customer only pricing anymore.
With Squirrel we are on the 900/900 package (speed tests at up to 940 Mbps) and signed up when it was £1 for the first 3 months then £35.
Wonder when 2.5 Gbps will be available lol, my router is ready!
Ah right. Thanks for the insight.
I negotiated with KCOM for now and for the 900mb for £49.99. So yeah, still £15 more than what you’re paying!
Good to see someone with a bit of networking knowledge explore the other side 🙂
There seems to be a bit of turf war mentality in the MS3 Networks area where the hope to work around
and in opposition to the main underground provider in the area, KCOM. The boycott campaign got this
from a KCOM spokesperson yesterday:
“We are legally required to provide access to our network and process applications to use our network
quickly and thoroughly when we receive them and they’re submitted correctly with all the required
information. Unfortunately, other providers don’t follow the agreed application process through or
simply don’t apply in the first place. They then erroneously blame KCOM for the inconvenience they are causing.
“We have received no requests from any other provider for access our to infrastructure in Hedon or
Hessle.
“Where new providers are installing poles it’s entirely their own commercial choice and not because
they have not been able to gain access to our infrastructure. We sympathise with local residents who
are having unpopular poles installed in their streets but unfortunately that’s the decision of other
providers and theirs alone. Other providers could do as KCOM has done and invest millions into
building their own underground network but have chosen not to do so.”
This was probably inevitable given MS3’s rollout in the KCom area seems almost universally poles.
I would love to know why they are using poles rather than KCom’s PIA product, and presume there is some poisoned pill in the product making use of it unviable for them but don’t know anyhting for a fact.
Perhaps it’s time MS3 explained why they’re building as they are. For them to have seen areas elsewhere where a few poles in a single street have triggered complaints.
That said I just used Google Streetview and coming into Heston past the Sainsburys, seeing the sign to drive carefully the telephone services are being delivered via poles. Taking the first right into a side street: poles. First side street on the left: poles. Next street on the right a few newer builds that look underground served and passed those older properties served by poles.
Did this place have all the poles removed and go all underground in the last year?
Is a protest against poles near me. Not against new ones, against existing ones. Two residents recently prevented Openreach installed fibre cabling on poles by parking their cars next to them. These poles already carry copper and CityFibre fibre. Takes all sorts.
I couldn’t find much information on it but I did wonder what requirements Ofcom put on KCOM PIA compared to Openreach?
Are KCOM bound by the “Guidance under the Communications (Access to Infrastructure) Regulations 2016” which doesn’t seem to have any price controls and seems to just say they have to offer reasonable terms?
From an Ofcom and competition perspective the KCOM area seems a prime candidate for Openreach PIA styling price controls since it is a network area historically without any competition.
It’s not just MS3 though, none of the other networks in the KCOM area appear to be using their infrastructure – and I agree it does make you wonder why.
Seems to be working out for KCOM though, getting residents on their side and protecting their golden goose.
Also interesting that MS3 now have 12 residential ISP partners and KCOM have been telling us for 20+ years they aren’t an obstacle to competition.
So far as I’m aware, Ofcom doesn’t strictly require KCOM to offer a regulated PIA-alike solution. The regulator took an approach to remedies which focuses on requiring access to KCOM’s fibre network (wholesale), rather than access to its physical infrastructure.
So in that sense KCOM may say they might accept interest in access to their infrastructure (I believe this would be under ATI Regulations though), but it would no doubt be under their own rather pricey commercial terms, hence why it’s not adopted (not attractive).
From KCOM
“We are legally required to provide access to our network and process applications to use our network quickly and thoroughly when we receive them and they’re submitted correctly with all the required information. Unfortunately, other providers don’t follow the agreed application process through or simply don’t apply in the first place. They then erroneously blame KCOM for the inconvenience they are causing.
We have received no requests from any other provider for access our to infrastructure in Hedon or Hessle.”
If the KCOM PIA product is unaffordable then perhaps ISPA could talk to Ofcom about it.
See Guy’s comment below.
As the CEO of MS3, I welcome the healthy debate around the correct balance between achieving widescale fibre deployment and addressing the concerns of residents for whom new telegraph poles are unwelcome.
As many of the readers of ISP Review will know, Hull and the surrounding areas, including Hedon and Preston, operate under a slightly different regulatory framework to the rest of the UK, in that Openreach is not the underlying network owner with Significant Market Power, it is instead KCOM.
KCOM are subject to much of the same rules and regulations as Openreach but due to vast scale differences between the two organisations and their respective footprints this clearly creates nuances. In simple terms if you are both required to offer PIA based on a Cost Plus model and your base costs, due to scale, are three times as much, then you would reasonably expect the final price to other operators to be more expensive. This may or may not make it commercially acceptable to the other operator.
MS3 have utilised Openreach infrastructure in other locations such as Grimsby and Scunthorpe to great effect with >95% of our homes passed in these areas requiring no additional dig or poling. It is more cost effective and creates less disruption. Quite simply it is our preferred deployment method. Whilst I am unable to talk about confidential commercial terms with KCOM, readers can make their own minds up about our decisions (and that of our neighbouring altnets) in KCOM licensed areas.
As Mark has pointed out, when it comes to deploying new infrastructure in more surburban areas with homes further apart, economics plays a factor and without the option to install telegraph poles then the rollout would simply not happen. MS3 has already dug over 400,000 metres of trenches to lay ducting and cables where it has been economically feasible to do so in Hull.
As Ofcom has stated previously:
“In the Hull Area, consumers benefit from the availability of KCOM’s full-fibre network. However,
KCOM has retained a near monopoly at both the wholesale and retail level. This has resulted in less
retail choice and higher retail prices than the rest of the UK, where competitive pressure has
resulted in greater choice and lower prices.”
At MS3 we are trying to make the situation in this region fairer for residents by providing that competition at a wholesale level, and 20+ retail partners with thousands of connected customers shows that we are making a difference.
We also accept that some residents will not take our service and choose to stay with their existing provider, that is fine and is what competition is all about. As much as we need to look after the concerns of residents that do not want telegraph poles, we also need to take into consideration those that do want and do need to save money on their broadband. Hedon has a population of around 8,000 yet has the requirement for two food banks. If we can bring much needed savings in a cost of living crisis to those that need it most then we are doing the right thing ultimately.
So basically KCOM is fleecing you guys and since they are a tiny fraction of what openreach is, there is no outside pressure on them to make fair pricing and open themselves up for competition
Monopoly aside, if people in a location value no poles/cabinets over better value broadband, that should be their choice. And people are right in being skeptic in a time when the state keeps installing nefarious pieces of equipment to their detriment that they never had a say such as the ULEZ in London or LTN everywhere. This does not only affect MS3 but tons of other altnets in different locations as Mark listed. The solution is to simply leave these areas for later or skip entirely if there just isnt enough support
Competition is great and KCOM needs to be brought down just like BT
Thanks for the explanation Guy.
Hi Guy. Many streets in Hull have your poles, Connexin and KCOM all cluttering the street scape. No wonder the residents are up in arms.
Grain connect, yet another altnet overbuilding you all in Hull have committed to not putting up any new poles. So one has to ask why they can build better and you can’t.
Hi FibreBubble, obviously I can’t answer for Grain but I can say that as far as I know in every street they have dug in Hull we also made the financial decision to dig first because quite simply they are dense with properties (typically terraced).
I don’t know of any street that Grain have chosen to deploy to which would have homes 10+ metres apart, if we wanted to avoid these homes then we could have a pole-free deployment but many would miss out on the benefits of competition.
Hi Guy. This chap seems to think that Grain are digging where you, KCOM and Connexin have poles and the houses are not 10m apart. Why can’t you build better in this street?
https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/its-like-pole-city-hull-8614325
Mr Miller, what do you have to say about your intention to proceed with pole installation in the smaller areas (residential estates like the one in Hessle currently protesting about your plans) where almost 100% of residents have signed a petition against the MS3 plans and pledged to boycott any services if you do proceed?
Is it not the right thing to do to withdraw from those areas?
Since you’re introducing market competition do you not think KCOM will need to reduce their pricing to remain competitive?
It makes me wonder what your motives actually are. Obviously profit, obviously, you’re a business. But have you honestly consulted with KCOM about using their underground infrastructure? I suspect not since KCOM have made the statement they have not received such a thing from MS3.
If your objectives are to meet the needs and requirements of residents then why are you not listening to what they want? Instead of hiding behind the clauses of permitted development and brazenly installing this cheap and nasty infrastructure.
Hi Chris, clearly we’d rather not cause protests but we have to take a balanced view on the vocal residents raising concerns and the quiet ones who do not.
On your KCOM point, if KCOM reduce prices then that is a massive win for the city and surrounding areas who, as Ofcom have pointed out, pay more for broadband than anywhere else in the country. I’m obviously not involved in KCOM’s commercial decision making but if we did leave areas with no competition I’m not sure that the outcome would be that the monopoly provider reduces prices in those locations, that’s not what the evidence in Hull has shown us in the last decade.
As you can probably tell, I don’t blame KCOM for what is happening and I met their CEO this week to ask for them to avoid confusing residents with the wording of their responses. For example to say that we have not put in a formal PIA request in Hedon and Hessle, whilst technically correct does miss out the useful detail that we do have a formal ATI request in another part of Hull so are fully aware of the operational challenges and the commercials of utilising their infrastructure a few miles away (and hence have made the new-pole decision in these locations)
Finally I don’t believe we hide behind the laws of permitted development at all, they exist for a good reason. Most of the country believe we need more houses build but most of the country doesn’t want them to be built near them, a balance has to be struck. If we just followed the law then we wouldn’t follow the voluntary code of practise, we’d install without the public notice periods and then we wouldn’t be able to have the healthy debate we are having now. Not one pole has been installed in Hedon yet and its our decision to enter this dialogue phase to try and inform residents of the benefits so that many, and we accept not all, can understand our reasons and the long-term choice it will provide.
@Guy reposting link to your interview which rehashes some of things discussed here.
https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/ms3-broadband-rollout-put-your-8752543
That been said I do find it funny to organise protests against altnets but not at the incumbents higher prices and I guarantee you most people would likely benefit from new competitors but of course we will be enshrining the right to no poles anywhere in the new bill of rights before a basic economic analysis.
Also @Chris
>where almost 100% of residents have signed a petition
100%?! Almost 100?! What on earth are you picking up that? This is crazy. It will be generous to assume even a small amount since most people need good internet.
Hopefully the boycott will encourage providers to build better. The last thing altnets need is even worse take-up.
In any case, altnets are like buses and should be forced to share their poles before a third lot goes up.
Looking at the mess Swish Fibre and their contractor S F Stefan have made of the paths in Banbury I wish they had just used the poles like Openreach have done.
I live in an area of East Yorkshire that has everything ducted and is beautiful. We can’t even put a flag pole up without permission so why should we accept disgusting poles and wires everywhere. I understand the Government pledge that everyone should have access to high speed broadband. So I am mystified as to why you are concentrating on areas that have super fast broadband already and not the areas that have nothing yet. I can only imagine it is because it is easier and cheaper and will get a faster return. This is deliberately using the governments pledge for your own profits. I do not want or need a new provider that will not wait to work with KCOM and am joining the increasing number who will not sign up if a single pole is erected.
The company refuses to tell the community what their community strategy says, they state they have one but are not prepared to disclose any details when requested. To date this company have demonstrated poor communication at community level whilst saying something different to yourselves and people in positions of power and authority.
The arrogance of Mr Miller amd his counterparts at Connexin is astounding. Both boast that they have comprehensive community engagement, but this seems to consist only of notices on lampposts and flyers through letter boxes – in Connexin’s case there are no contact details provided…
When contacted, they give the minimum amount of information possible and are secretive about proposed pole locations. One can only assume that they do not want the publoc to know the extent of their operations.
Mr Miller insinuates that, because people are silent, they back his conpany’s expansion. This is not the case, many are quiet because they don’t think their voices will be heard.
Kcom have repeatedly and publically stared that no other provider has approached then. Mr Miller has stated in a recent TV interview that MS3 submitted a test application. Someone here is clearly lying.
No-one is against fair competition, but this proliferation of infrastucture is beyond a joke. Where I live, we could be in a situation where there is a pole for every 3 houses. These telecoms companies need to start showing respect for the communities and together to provide an acceptable solution for their potential and existing customers