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AAISP Boss Highlights the Problem of Virgin Media’s Fibre Optic Claim

Tuesday, May 27th, 2014 (10:10 am) - Score 3,723
copper and fibre optic hybrid broadband cables uk

The complaints department for cable operator Virgin Media has admitted that one of its leaflets was “worded badly” after the Managing Director of broadband provider AAISP (Andrews and Arnold), Adrian Kennard, complained that their claim of using a “fibre optic cable to install the services at the customers property” was misleading.

The abuse of “fibre optic” in marketing promotions by broadband ISPs that often only supply slower hybrid-fibre (e.g. FTTC, DOCSIS / FTTN etc.) solutions, which usually connect the last few tens, hundreds or even thousands of metres into your home via an older coaxial or copper cable, is nothing new to the pages of ISPreview.co.uk (see last year’s editorial – Will the Real Fibre Optic Broadband Service Please Stand Up).

In an ideal world ISPs would only use the “fibre optic” wording in their service promotions if an actual fibre optic cable was being run all the way to your building (e.g. FTTH, FTTP, FTTB etc.), which has the capability to deliver Gigabit (1000Mbps+) speeds and to go even faster in the future.

But sadly the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) sees no problem with this and thus hybrid-fibre solutions, such as BT’s up to 80Mbps FTTC and Virgin Media’s 152Mbps DOCSIS3 network, are often marketed as fibre optic even when you don’t actually get a fibre optic cable to your home. As a result true fibre optic providers like B4RN, Hyperoptic and Gigaclear, which offer a full fibre optic service, are left at a promotional disadvantage.

However the outspoken boss of AAISP, Adrian Kennard, recently decided that enough was enough. The situation began in early April when Kennard had the service installed at a building as part of his work for the Open Rights Group (ORG) and he promptly highlighted Virgin’s claim that their “broadband comes down fibre optic cable instead of your phone line” (a tad misleading perhaps).

Kennard then decided to complain and a few weeks later Virgin Media responded by saying, “Just to inform you we provide copper coax cable till the main box and from there we use the fibre optic cable to install the services at the customers property.” The wording, which was also mirrored by a second individual at Virgin Media a few days later (seems like a shared script), could easily be misinterpreted to read that they’re installing fibre optic cable directly into the home, which of course they are not.

Adrian Kennard’s response to VM’s reply:

I am still slightly puzzled. You are stating, quite clearly, that you “use the fibre optic cable to install the services at the customers property”. This is what I expected for “fibre optic broadband” ordered at my home. However, I watched the installation and have looked at the cable used, and I can be 100% sure that you did not “use fibre optic cable to install the services at the customers property”. Please let me know when you will be back to “use fibre optic cable to install the services at the customers property” as it is clear from your letter that this is what should have happened. Let me know if I need to take more time off work.”

The situation appeared to come to a head this weekend when a member of Virgin Media’s complaint team called Adrian to discuss the case and what follows is a truly interesting call, which can be listened to in full by following the link on Adrian’s latest blog post (here) and it makes for a very entertaining and informative conversation.

Suffice to say that the call reminded us a little bit of those scenes in Jaws ™ where the shark (Adrian) relentlessly picks off the crew of Quint’s vessel (Virgin), most of which are left to hopelessly flail about in an attempt to fight the inevitable truth of their demise; except in this version not even Brody survives.

During the call Virgin’s agent, whom repeatedly attempts to say that their service is fibre optic and at one point even describes the fibre as being “twisted pair” (that’s not fibre), also claims that BT doesn’t provide FTTP to residential properties (actually they do, albeit with very limited coverage – BTInfinity 3 – 4) and notes that this is because his parents “are on BT and they don’t have FTTP” (brilliant argument). Adrian, taking BT’s side for once, then warns Virgin that the remark about BT not giving FTTP to homes is an “untrue statement against a competitor of your service“.

Initially the agent also suggests that there is no-one Adrian can take to alternative dispute resolution, although later he does clarify that Virgin’s ADR complaints handler is actually CISAS. The good news is that Virgin’s agent does eventually concede that the promotions might have been “badly worded” and when ISPreview.co.uk raised this same concern with Virgin Media in late April a spokesperson promised to investigate and “feed back to relevant parts of the business“.

However, short of the ASA changing its position, the “fibre optic” confusion is likely to continue and it remains equally important to stress that this is by no means an issue unique to Virgin Media. Many ISPs, such as those using BT’s FTTC service, make similar claims that fall into the same pool. On top of that it’s fair to say that we feel a bit sorry for Virgin’s agent, whom perhaps didn’t realise what he was getting into and did a good job of keeping his composure during a difficult call.

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Mark Jackson
By Mark Jackson
Mark is a professional technology writer, IT consultant and computer engineer from Dorset (England), he also founded ISPreview in 1999 and enjoys analysing the latest telecoms and broadband developments. Find me on Twitter, , Facebook and Linkedin.
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35 Responses
  1. Avatar adslmax

    Entertaining. 🙂

  2. Avatar SlowLincolnshire

    Loved listening to this call. Cool, calm, composed throughout and sticking it to the man!

    The only way the ASA are going to even consider changing their minds is if the complaints come through in larger numbers. I realise many people probably don’t care about the exact workings of their internet connections, what they paying for and what they are getting / not getting but for those who do care……….knowledge most definitely is power.

  3. Avatar DanielM

    its not even fibre to the cabinet. its fibre to the node (which can be miles away)

  4. Avatar dragoneast

    Really hard to tell which of them is wasting the more effort.

    • Avatar George

      Agreed, was on Adrians side reading the story until i listened to the phone call where he appears to be overly aggressive/annoyed/sarcastic by/to the virgin person calling him.

      The agent is not a technical person none of them as the front line team in any organisation are.

      I am far from being on Virgins side, especially if they are misleading customers in letters but from the recording the customer service rep IMO was the calmer of the 2 individuals. Their information on some points is wrong, but he was polite and professional throughout.

      Personally i do not think Adrian has done himself any favours here by making this public.
      1) To put the shoe on the other foot… If i was a customer of AAISP and i had a complaint about anything Adrians staff told me about a service then you know what type of attitude you are going to get if you contact the boss himself.
      2) It is ironic he demands to know who the ADR organisation is when in the past he has not though much about those organisations…
      http://www.ispreview.co.uk/story/2012/02/04/isp-aaisp-uk-rails-against-abuse-of-official-adr-consumer-complaint-handlers.html
      That agent at 7mis 42secs even attempts to discuss with him what resolution he would like to take to which he is fobbed of by Adrian about being busy, even though he has already spent 7+ mins harassing him. He then goes on harassing him some more up until 11mins 33secs when the agent again asks what he would like done.

      Personally i do not think he has a leg to stand on. The ASA has already determined (wrongly IMO) that basically any service which has fibre in it can be called a “fibre optic” product.

      It would also be interesting on how the actual Virgin service he has had installed is performing. If it is actually performing well below the speeds etc Virgin promise then he may have a valid complaint otherwise i think the hot air and bluster will not get him anywhere. Being a new line i suspect they would had either let him cancel it (what the agent may had gone over at 7min 42secs mark if they had a chance) be offered a financial reduction or similar.

      I suspect Adrian is likely happy how the product performs but just decided to troll this agent for a bit of de-stressing/comedy. I personally find what Virgin may have promised and how Adrian dealt with the call though equally sad in both regards.

    • Avatar Tom

      I’ve found a similar call that Adrian recorded in the past, to Sky TV, to be “overly aggressive/annoyed/sarcastic” too. The same result and “look, I’m clearly right” could be conveyed with more politeness towards the reps at the end of the phone.

    • Avatar DanielM

      “The agent is not a technical person none of them as the front line team in any organisation are.”

      Take it in mind he wasnt speaking to customer service but obviously someone in senior complaints team. you would think they would know the basics.

    • Avatar DanielM

      @George

      “that basically any service which has fibre in it can be called a “fibre optic” product.”

      My 3G that am on now is fibre optic. that fair to say? and so is my adsl2+.. at my second house

    • Avatar FibreFred

      Why would anyone think ADSL (of any kind) is fibre, there’s zero fibre between the exchange and the home.

    • Avatar George

      Exactly fred, its services to the customer that use fibre in the customer link somewhere. Not the network as a whole. ADSL as you say is copper from exchange to persons home so the ASA would not allowed that to be termed as a “fibre connection” FTTC and Virgin services though can be as they both have fibre en-route to the customer. At least that is how i believe the ASA have decided things (Wrongly i may add again IMO).

      @DanielIM be it complaints team or customer service most are not familiar with exact technical details of a service. They are not engineers, they are there to listen to and handle complaints/help a customer. It is the same for many companies, im sure we have all banged our heads against a wall at some point with customer service and complaints teams that do not comprehend the nature of a complaint and or query in many organisations, not just telecoms or broadband.

      Call centre workers are trained in giving responses, not trained in if the response is correct or not.

      The biggest and funniest irony at his rant and being on the end of poor service and wanting to take names and make higher complaints is this……….

      http://www.aa.net.uk/legal-dispute.html
      QUOTE”…….As a customer you have agreed that zero compensation applies for “poor customer service”. Indeed, you will see in our terms that to prospective customers (that have not yet taken a service) we specifically offer to be rude and unhelpful. So whilst we appreciate your feedback on any poor customer service, it does not constitute a valid dispute. We consider the quality of customer service to be down to perception so if you feel you had poor customer service we agree with you that you have had poor customer service. As such, any customer service complaint is not in fact a dispute as we are not disputing or disagreeing with what you say. We also hereby apologise for any poor customer service you have had so that is not a reason to ask ADR for an apology from us. If you are unhappy with customer service, please give us constructive feedback so we can improve it.”

      LOL So he seems to think it is ok for his company to be unhelpful if they so fit but does not like it when he is put in a similar position LOL

      AAISP a company with a boss with an over grown ego that likes to shout demands, but does not want his own customers doing it to them and if they do they it “it does not constitute a valid dispute”.

      Oh the irony.

    • Avatar No Clue

      It does seem funny a previous user of his AAISP service made an ADR dispute over the time a service was installed yet one of Adrians complaints in that call was the day on which his Virgin connection was installed. Perhaps now he knows how that customer felt a couple of years ago.

      Also more shocking than anything (i hope he is joking) that his terms basically say just because you may get bad customer service does not mean you have any valid complaint towards the company.

      Indeed stating “We also hereby apologise for any poor customer service you have had so that is not a reason to ask ADR for an apology from us.” is the funniest bit because that is exactly his situation with Virgin during that phone call, poor customer service leading to him ranting and demanding to know who their ADR is.

      Pot, Kettle, black.

      Net conclusion avoid Virgin who you can argue mis-sell and avoid AAISP that happily boast ‘we specifically offer to be rude and unhelpful’. Especially when it is ran by an individual that hates it when others are rude and unhelpful to them. They should both consider each other special and give each other a medal.

  5. Avatar finaldest

    So its fiber optic broadband from the cabinet and is supplied by twisted pair copper coax.

    LOL. Pure GOLD.

    It’s about time the ISP’s train their minions on what they are actually selling to the general public rather than spout nonsense.

    Regulator needs to sort this out.

  6. Avatar flipdee

    I agree with the comments that Adrian’s tactics can be a bit harsh when you consider them in a “face to face” scenario, however I appreciate there are not many people willing to kick up a storm and blog about it in order to get certain issues “reported on”
    It saddens me that Virgin and everyone else providing a “fibre” broadband service can hide behind the ASA verdict, it’s such a shame that the ASA set the precedent that accuracy doesn’t matter in fixed line broadband advertising.
    I’m surprised that Vodafone and the other mobile broadband providers don’t sell them using the “fibre” descriptor too as of course mobile broadband must have fibre as part of the connection.
    The general public are easily confused, surely the ASA have allowed everything to get even more confusing!

  7. Avatar Matthew

    Adrian is one of those people who can’t stand technical inaccuracy and to be honest why should he?, it’s either fibre or it isn’t unless the ISP is actually delivering fibre to the property why should they be able to call it fibre?

    If you went to a supermarket and bought a bag of Cashew nuts and then found they were actually peanuts when you opened them you wouldn’t accept it would you? so why accept it for broadband?

    I have VDSL2 at home but there are plenty of ISP’s happy to call that fibre, it will be interesting to see what happens when they start selling FTTP

    • Avatar George

      “Adrian is one of those people who can’t stand technical inaccuracy and to be honest why should he?”

      His own site BASED ON SIMILAR ARGUING HE IS HAVING WITH VIRGIN needs to be more “technically” accurate and less contradicting then…
      http://www.aa.net.uk/broadband-FC.html
      QUOTE”BT are also deploying new cabinets allowing fibre to the cabinet services. These have fibre from the exchange to a street cabinet, and then normal telephone line running to your premises. Because the cabinet is much closer this allows even faster services.”

      The last sentence is “technically” incorrect. Your distance to a cabinet can “TECHNICALLY” be further than the distance to your exchange.

      The “TECHNICALLY” correct thing is with FTTC the TOTAL copper/aluminium (if unlucky) run is shorter not “distance”. “Technically” The exchange could be on your doorstep the cabinet may be the other end of the road.

      Kinda corrected further down the page with the…
      “….the type and quality of cable, and may depend on other factors such as local radio interference.” quotation.

      He also has further down the page has this…
      “VDSL is a newer broadband protocol available on the shorter lines used for FTTC.”
      Shorter lines eh?

      followed by…
      “…This service is only available where your line is connected to a suitable FTTC cabinet”
      So bugger all again to do with the line being short or not but actually if it is connected to a FTTC cabinet…… Though “technically” saying Fibre to the Cabinet ‘cabinet’ the second use of the word ‘cabinet’ is totally superfluous.

      The point is it is easy to bash and niggle pick things. I doubt their is a single broadband company in the UK that does not have a contradiction NO MATTER HOW TINY it is in their description of products.

      Personally i think Virgin are naughty for advertising “fibre” services, but thats the ASA at fault who have let Virgin and BT get away with it. However If Adrian feels as strongly as he is publicly making out maybe he should attack the right people to get things changed.

      Id certainly based on his outburst, his own niggly little contradictions on his own website and the fact jokingly or not in his legal terms he basically says if you have a issue with our customer service then tough, Ill not be joining his company any time soon. Less focus ranting at other firms and blogging and more concentration on his own business and terminology may be a start.

    • Avatar No Clue

      To follow on from that, at the same link.
      http://www.aa.net.uk/broadband-FC.html

      ‘Includes an BT supplied VDSL modem as part of the ongoing service. Customers will need a PPPoE capable router or software to use the service.’

      Ok so Modem included but no router fair enough. Understood… But then at the bottom of the page.

      ‘Note that FTTC works differently to typical ADSL broadband and includes a BT VDSL router which talks PPPoE.’

      Hmmmmmmmm

      Err ‘Customers will need a PPPoE capable router’

      followed by

      ”includes’ a BT VDSL Router which talks PPPoE’

      So yeah im lost as to if you get a router or not if you sign up with them.

      Never mind what type of cable it is to the property with AAISP you do not even know if you will have a box to connect the wires to in the first place LMAO.

      Pedantic… Yes, as pedantic as his call with Virgin… Most definitely.

    • Avatar No Clue

      And poof just like that its been corrected from….

      includes a BT VDSL Router which talks PPPoE

      to

      includes a BT VDSL modem which talks PPPoE

      Seems Virgin are not the only ones that make mistakes/lie

  8. Avatar flipdee

    Haha, proof reading there was not.
    Technically the BT provided VDSL Router is capable of being a VDSL router, not just a modem, however it needs to be unlocked to carry out this task.
    Where do we draw the pedantic line?
    I believe there does need to be a greater effort made by the UK regulators/providers to help educate the UK public towards a greater understanding of what they pay for.
    Watering down technical specifications is not the way to do it.
    In America, AT&T (mainly) just decided to call it’s HSPA+ network 4G (Apple appeared to happily indicate 4G on their iDevices when clearly it’s only HSPA+), the network’s and Apple obviously can re-define recognised standards and STUPIDLY the International Telecommunications Union (ITU) buckled under the pressure and let them, HILARIOUS.
    It makes me laugh, why be specific about technical capabilities at all if you can just make it up as you go along.
    That diesel car I drive must be a supercar, because I say so, never mind what speed it can actually do.
    It would be fantastic if utility (primarily broadband) providers had to establish a “key facts” document just like a financial provider must do for insurance/finance products.
    At least then consumers will be given standardised wording and technical specification behind the rubbish marketing speak before they commit to a product/service.

  9. Avatar GNewton

    “So yeah im lost as to if you get a router or not if you sign up with them.”

    I think this has now been corrected on the AAISP website, so no confusion over this, see here:

    http://revk.www.me.uk/2014/05/virgin-lies.html?showComment=1401257207348#c5765565202360665374

    Anyway, I wish AAISP good luck, it’s good to see someone stand up against the ASA lies!

    It is not just ISPs like BT or Virgin who promote false fibre broadband products, even the county councils, like the Essex BDUK project at http://www.superfastessex.org/en-us/forbusiness.aspx spreads half truths, too.

    • Avatar No Clue

      Indeed corrected but he still seems to miss the point anyone can be pedantic over terminology on a website and mistakes with that terminology.

      Points to him for the correction, loss of points for not being pedantic and reading things though which he is selling but having the time to do it for other organisations.

      Attacking just Virgin is wrong, as you say every man and his dog is at it. Ultimately its down to the ASA for allowing Virgin and then BT to use the “fibre” term wrongly in the first place.

      Trying to make some call centre worker look stupid is not going to change that. If he feels that strongly about the issue of “fibre” being called “fibre” when it is not (which obviously he does not) maybe he should be harassing Ofcom, Government, the ASA and other powers rather than bullying call centre workers.
      Who right or wrong with their information IMO done well to remain as calm as they did with someone as bullying on the other end.

      If it were me id had just told him where to go or just hung up if i were in a good mood. The rep no matter how you look at it came out looking the more dignified of the two individuals. Maybe not the more technically knowledgeable but walked away with grace rather than fuming with rage at the other person.

    • Avatar GNewton

      Agreed, the tone of the conversation could have been nicer.

      Still, you can’t overturn the faulty ASA ruling without having first created an incidence of a wrongly carried out fibre broadband installation, with a subsequent process via the ADR.

      Would you have stayed calm if a provider sold you a fibre broadband yet instead installed another product, such as a slower DSL service?

    • Avatar No Clue

      “Would you have stayed calm if a provider sold you a fibre broadband yet instead installed another product, such as a slower DSL service?”

      For the majority in this country which have “fibre” connections be they from BT, Virgin, Sky, Talk Talk (they are the largest 4 providers AFAIK) we have IN MOST CASES been sold a service which is not “fibre”.

      As that user has now pointed out on the blog who has a similar thought pattern to myself. AAISP sell products from BT and Talk Talk wholesale. They are marketed as “Superfast fibre optic broadband” and “superpowered fibre”.

      I wonder Has he been on the blower to moan at them about the terminology they are using?

      Has he complained to ofcom about those wholesale products he is buying and them being dubbed as “fibre” when they are not? In fact it is even worse because when he resells his purchased wholesaled product he then he has to accurately point out to potential customers what they actually are (IE FTTC) before he resells.

      His crusade can be admired to a degree, the way he is just attacking one organisation and call centre workers though will not get him anywhere. It is a industry wide issue.

      Technically although he may be honest on what the product he actually sells is (IE FTTC) he is buying/reselling products from organisations wholesale already that call the product fibre when it is not.

      Its a bit beyond judgemental. Happy to buy a product called “fibre” from some but not others.

      Id like to see his upset change things and Virgin, BT etc all be made to more accurately in some way describe what they are actually selling, but the way he has decided to go about things i highly doubt he will be successful.

      Even if he were for the average customer making Virgin, BT etc having to describe a product is half copper/half fibre it would just confuse your typical joe public more than they are confused now. So ultimately even with the wanted outcome it achieves little and COULD POSSIBLY just confuse people more.

      Things like this needed to be sorted out before all of em started selling these “fibre” services. Unfortunately like so many decisions over broadband in this country its just another mistake that was made.

  10. Avatar GNewton

    “Even if he were for the average customer making Virgin, BT etc having to describe a product is half copper/half fibre it would just confuse your typical joe public more than they are confused now. So ultimately even with the wanted outcome it achieves little and COULD POSSIBLY just confuse people more.”

    It should simply be called VDSL (BT and resellers) or coax cable (Virgin), that’s what these so-called fibre-broadband products really are, and the customer should be given honest speed estimates – problem solved, no confusion whatsoever. Clearly a failure of ASA and OFCOM, and probably a situation unique to the UK.

    There certainly are other laws that can be utilised to rectify this situation, especially where taxpayer’s money is involved, like the dodgy BDUK plans. For example, we have asked a local county council to correct their BDUK website and not to use the term ‘fibre broadband’ when clearly it isn’t.

    However, there is no need to bash the call-centre salesmen who usually have no clue about their products.

    • Avatar No Clue

      “It should simply be called VDSL (BT and resellers) or coax cable (Virgin), that’s what these so-called fibre-broadband products really are, and the customer should be given honest speed estimates – problem solved, no confusion whatsoever. Clearly a failure of ASA and OFCOM, and probably a situation unique to the UK.”

      I agree entirely but i do wonder is it too late. People now look for “fibre” products. To suddenly call them something else even if it were correct would just confuse some. It really should had been dealt with before these “fibre” services went on sale from ANY of the big players.

      Its yet once again in part thanks to Ofcom another Great British balls up with regards to broadband. The ASA just made sure of it being a balls up with their decisions lol

      “There certainly are other laws that can be utilised to rectify this situation, especially where taxpayer’s money is involved, like the dodgy BDUK plans. For example, we have asked a local county council to correct their BDUK website and not to use the term ‘fibre broadband’ when clearly it isn’t.”

      Im not even going to get started over the BDUK and why that is a fail for the simple fact its been done to death and would lead me to ranting for pages more, suffice to say yep that is another balls up.

      “However, there is no need to bash the call-centre salesmen who usually have no clue about their products.”

      Salesman or not (he may of been complaints department or support or another) bashing him was one of my gripes. Adrian is actually in the industry and he more than any of us probably has a better chance of changing things if he attacked the right people/organisations with the same Venom, he i would imagine must have to deal with Ofcom and government with regards to telecoms and broadband in some capacity reasonably regularly at least more than any of us public reading here. Shouting at a Virgin call centre worker or BT or Talk Talk is not going to change the situation at all. While in some regards some may have found the call funny (i found it a waste of time for both involved) i personally think if we want change comedy is not going to get the job done.

  11. Avatar flipdee

    Fair point, obviously adsl wasn’t considered too technical a term on day one.
    What happened after that?
    I think we live in such a silly culture, the Xbox 2 couldn’t be called such because it would automatically be considered worse than the PlayStation 3 which was out at the same time, this is about the only time names and numbers should be allowed to be at the discretion of the supplier.
    I find it difficult to accept a marketing term for a quantifiable standardised technology, BT Infinity, it’s basically like BT have themselves their own “better than the broadband you used to know” but then everyone else went mad trying to distinguish themselves as better than “the rest” or somehow at least the same as the rest because God help virgin if anyone thought their broadband was inferior to the next.
    What ever happened to plain old simple numbers?
    If marketing speak was banned and actual numbers used then how could anyone be that confused by what they are being sold?
    It’s about the only time actual quantities are a secondary consideration.
    Maybe American adverts are more the way to go where nothing really matters and companies just state they are better than the “named” competition “just because we say so”.

  12. Avatar Nanaki

    No Clue you may wish to check again exactly what service a company like AA buys from wholesalers.

    AA do not by a ‘Fibre’ package from a wholesaler that they resell to end user.

    AA sell packages to end users to allow us to transfer data between our endpoint and the AA network.

    AA then buy backhaul packages to allow that data to travel onwards. Currently I believe there backhaul is going to either the BT core network or the TalkTalk core network depending on what service the end user pays for.

    Backhaul connections are a very different thing to the Fibre / Copper points being made above and have no bearing at all on this discussion.

    Personally I think the ASA / OFCOM / ISP cage needs rattled a bit over they complete misuse of terminology and almost flat out lying to customers. If Adrian thinks this is the way for him to stir things up a bit to achieve the end goal most of us want (honest product description) then I’m all for it.

    • Avatar No Clue

      I sincerely apologise if i am wrong in the exact product/service AAISP purchase from others.

      HOWEVER how the AAISP network is setup and/or what is purchased does not make a difference to the argument.

      Adrian is complaining a company (IE Virgin) is selling “fibre” services which are not fibre. That is his main complaint is it not?

      He however purchases other products and or services (be them whatever) from Talk Talk (I know that AAISP uses their ADSL2+ wholesale product) and BT who are 2 other companies that describes products in their portfolio as “fibre” when they are not.

      Why is he buying anything from those organisations if he has such an issue with organisations calling some of their product range “fibre” when it is not?

      To me that makes no sense at all, if you have moral convictions that high you should be avoiding any organisation of similar loose morals. Of course that is just my opinion.

  13. Avatar Bo Selecta

    Normally I find Adrian and his constant need for attention and to keep his ISP in the news a bit of a pain in the bottom but on this one he is spot on.

    The Virgin agent tries to talk over him, tells him lies, sounds completely uninterested in what Adrian has to say and then when he comes back from being on hold he tries to be snide by telling Adrian he has double checked and BT don’t offer FTTP for residential customers.

    By now I suspect that the Virgin agent will have been dragged into his managers office for a meeting without tea or biscuits.

  14. Avatar zemadeiran

    Is that marine grade ply in the back of the Virgin cabinet?

    http://revk.www.me.uk/2014/05/virgin-lies.html

    Adrian Kennard should really be letting rip on the quality and thickness of the cabinet ply and especially focus on if it is FSC certified…

    I for one support your helpdesk monkey crusade!

  15. Avatar anonymous

    Hmm, I was going to go with AAISP but after hearing this guy i’d rather not – he sounds like an idiot to me.

    • Avatar GNewton

      If we ever were to move to a place which has broadband (there is no useful office broadband in our small town of 10 000), we would seriously consider AAISP. I don’t feel sorry for this Virgin sales person, it is Virgin’s responsibility to train its sales staff correctly and not to spread lies.

    • Avatar zemadeiran

      @GNewton,

      If the Virgin management were to tell their helpdesk monkeys that Virgin broadband is “Magical unicorn rainbow fart” powered and that they should tow the line, then surely that is exactly what they would do in order to keep their jobs in this fucked up economy of ours right?

      So what is the point of pissing into the wind?

    • Avatar No Clue

      “I don’t feel sorry for this Virgin sales person, it is Virgin’s responsibility to train its sales staff correctly and not to spread lies.”

      It is any organisation responsibility to make sure the staff are trained properly. However that clearly does not happen with any of them. Phone up Virgin, BT, Sky or Talk Talk (The biggest 4) and they will all tell you their product is “fibre” broadband. I also imagine if pushed they will much of the time tell you BS reasons why they are better than the others in those 4 mentioned. They all do it right now with their TV adverts so i doubt a phone call is any different.

      I actually feel for the staff in all of those organisations. They are trained poorly, when they tell you something that is untrue it is not their fault. It is no different to when you were a child, you needed someone to teach you 2+2=4. If you do not know something you rely on others educating you. If they educate your wrongly that is not the fault of the individual being educated.

    • Avatar zemadeiran

      Well said…

  16. Avatar WhisperingTech

    Having very limited tech background, I signed up for VM Fibre Optic even questioning the virgin sales person who visited my home if it was REAL FO like they get in sth Korea.
    Yes it’s fibre optic limited in certain areas but your area in one.
    1year on still buffers and never more then 15mbps… I’ve asked for my money back based on consumer rights misold something that does not work.

    Still waiting on a reply

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