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Virgin Media Parent Eyes Future 10Gbps and DOCSIS 4 Upgrade

Tuesday, Nov 10th, 2020 (12:01 am) - Score 13,752
virgin media trench

Liberty Global, the parent of cable broadband ISP Virgin Media UK and various other European operators, has informed shareholders that they’ll be starting work on 10Gbps broadband connectivity “pretty quickly” by using a mix of a future DOCSIS 4.0 upgrades and more Fibre-to-the-Premises (FTTP) technology.

At present Virgin Media’s existing network is dominated by Hybrid Fibre Coax (HFC) technology, as well as some FTTP via Radio Frequency over Glass (RFoG). Both sides of their network are currently in the process of being upgraded to support the DOCSIS 3.1 standard (due to finish by the end of 2021), albeit at present only on the downstream side (it’ll be added to upstream in the near future, which will bring more speed and latency improvements).

The upgrade to D3.1 is a relatively straightforward one that largely improves performance by utilising enhancements to Orthogonal Frequency Division Multiplexing (OFDM), which can encode data by using multiple carrier frequencies, and boosting the amount of radio spectrum available for data transfer up to 200MHz; plus, a lot of smaller changes under the hood.

In theory a fully D3.1 upgraded network should be able to handle a peak theoretical download speed of up to 10Gbps and uploads of around 1.5Gbps, although feeding all of that with enough capacity and ensuring all of your customers have supporting kit (routers) will take time. Equally Virgin are likely to consider demand and boost speeds gradually, much as they’ve always done (hence first D3.1 package is 1Gbps, but they’ve tested to 2.2Gbps).

NOTE: We should add that Virgin are also deploying a Remote Phy (R-PHY) network enhancement (here).

However, FTTP networks are easily able to keep pace with HFC, which is one of the reasons why CableLab’s has already developed DOCSIS 4.0 (formerly Full Duplex D3.1). The future upgrade boosts available spectrum up to 1.8GHz and makes further improvements to QAM, among other things. The result is a network that retains a peak downstream of 10Gbps, but pushes upstream to 6Gbps and gives even better latency.

The good news is that Liberty Global may be moving on to develop D4.0 sooner than expected, at least that’s what their group boss said during last week’s post-results media call.

Mike Fries, CEO of Liberty Global, said:

“We know our networks are valuable today well beyond where they’re being valued and for all kinds of reasons that make good sense. The path to continued speed enhancement in our fixed networks, you’ve got multiple paths. But today we’re getting the most out of 3.1, which again we’ve already trialled 2.2 gig speeds with 3.1. That’s something we can do if we choose to.

But we’re really focused on 10G and, to be honest with you, when I mentioned 1 gig five or six years ago everybody was like.. what the heck is that needed for. Trust me when I say that the 10 gig conversation will be starting and will be starting pretty quickly.

When we look at our networks, we’ve got a couple of ways to get there with DOCSIS 4.0, where we would fall right in line with the US operators, Charter and Comcast, both of whom would be pursuing a strategy like that. And we could also use FTTP, CSPON, where we have, we think, the economics to support that kind of roadmap to 10G.

So stay tuned, lots to talk about there and as you point out lots of cool things with faster speed and lower latency, lots of cool things we can do both with our fixed and mobile networks.

At this point a small reality check may be needed because D4.0 would not be a simple upgrade in the UK, at least in that sense it’s not comparable to the D3.1 deployment. Lest we also forget that Liberty Global started talking about D3.1 many years before it first began to go live on Virgin Media. Suffice to say that we’re well into the usual “take with a pinch of salt” territory.

On the one hand D4.0 via HFC would be cheaper than placing their existing network with FTTP, which is why they’ll probably do it.. eventually. But upgrading their HFC D3.1 network to D4.0 may also require node + 0 (i.e. deeper fibre nodes closer to homes – very expensive) in order to get the full benefit, as well as the complete replacement of tap banks, splitters, isolators etc. All of this would take a fair amount of time to deploy.

Suffice to say that we can’t see D4.0 happening in the UK for a good few years’ yet. The operator will most likely want to get some mileage out of the DOCSIS 3.1 standard first. Happily D3.1 does have plenty of mileage left to give, particularly in terms of upstream improvements and latency.

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Mark-Jackson
By Mark Jackson
Mark is a professional technology writer, IT consultant and computer engineer from Dorset (England), he also founded ISPreview in 1999 and enjoys analysing the latest telecoms and broadband developments. Find me on X (Twitter), Mastodon, Facebook and .
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Comments
38 Responses
  1. Avatar photo Richard Paul says:

    VM are up against it with OpenReach’s FTTP deployment schedule. As more premises get FTTP in VM areas they could start losing the market share that they have as speed is what keeps a lot of people with VM at the moment. FTTP has better latency characteristics and if cost competitive a, sub, 1Gb package is likely superior to any competing VM offer at similar speeds.

    At the moment in my area the choice is between 22Mbs with BT (and that’s a good connection) or 380Mbs with VM. I don’t stay with VM for the stellar customer service and pricing.

    1. Avatar photo Rich says:

      Totally. I actively hate Virgin, their customer service is actually awful, like nothing I have ever experienced. I’ve had a relatively simple complaint going on since April and they just don’t respond.

      The second I can get something equivalent I’ll be gone, and probably have a ceremonial burning of my VM hub.

      Thankfully, cityfibre are now 1 street over digging up roads according to one.network…..

    2. Avatar photo Buggerlugz says:

      In that case I might actually start to look forward to getting FTTP from BT sometime in the next decade. YAY!

      I simply refuse to return to the corrupt billing practises that come with a Virgin media account. So it looks like I’m stuck with 4g home broadband currently.

    3. Avatar photo FibreAddict says:

      Agree, I have been a VM customer out of need as BT copper could only delivery 10-12Mbps until recently it’s now 35-40Mbps

      However BT are currently doing a full fibre build as are CityFibre in Derby!

      The upload speed is still very poor. I get 350/35Mbps at £48 a month.

      Vodafone (Cityfibre) is 900/900 for only a few quid more

    4. Avatar photo SimonR says:

      Yep. Too little too late. They’ve done very little here over the last few years, whilst CityFibre and OpenReach are taking away their share. Time was, you would only get Virgin round here if you wanted decent internet. Now, after about 20 years I’m waiting for the CF fibre outside my house to light up.

    5. Avatar photo Random Precision says:

      Openreach are starting their FTTP build in my area of North Tyneside within the next few months then I’ll dump Virgin as quick as I can.

    6. Avatar photo Luan says:

      Be glad that you pay only £48 per month for 350/35 mb with VM… I’ve been with them for nearly 5 years, and all they do is increase the price, I was paying over £74 for that package, and now I’ve upgraded to 500 down/ and the same 35 up, and they were only able to drop to £71.99. Can’t wait for openreach to finish the works in my area which they only started (so still some time to go) So I can switch to FTTP and have a more reliable service, with tons of head room for future upgrades, and pay way less as well. What VM does to their customers after the contract has finished is absolutely rubbish.

  2. Avatar photo Ronski says:

    I agree with Richard above, only reason I went with VM is because I could get 390/36 compared to 40/6 on an ECI cabinet. FTTP is currently being rolled out in our area and I will be looking to move once available, I’ve been on the receiving end of VM support a couple of times and it is absolutely terrible.

    1. Avatar photo Archie says:

      Same here. It was either a wonky on/off 50/8 FTTC connection with OR/BT or 200/12 FTTP with Virgin (now 550/40). I very much liked the doubling in upload for free only months after I moved to (390/20 – 390/40). At the time I wasn’t aware of their horrible Hub 3 latency issues however.

      I’d much prefer prefer an OR/BT connection, but as it stands I’ve no idea whether BT will be showing their faces around with here with any FTTP upgrades. If Virgin follow through their download DOCSIS 3.1 upgrade and then upload upgrade to 3.1 relatively soon after I’ll be satiated. I completely appreciate that many on complain about upload speeds with Virgin but not all that long ago they were truly awful, you weren’t getting anywhere near the upload of OR/BT at the time. Now, they’re smashing BT’s upload (and download) for the vast majority that are still on FTTC many years after it came to the area.

      I run a lot of upload intensive applications for work and for play. Whilst I would like more upload bandwidth, 40mbps does everything I need without issue really. It takes less than 4 minutes to upload a full gigabyte and that’s without ruining anyone else’s ability to use the connection for up or down traffic. People complaining about having ‘only 52mbps’ makes me laugh a bit. In reality, this is far more than 95% need, they’re merely annoyed because Virgin will give you 1gbps down with a meagre 20%ish of that as upload. We’d all prefer symmetrical, but it’s just not going to happen soon. I’d pick 52mbps over BT’s 18mbps up easily as I’m sure many others would given the choice.

  3. Avatar photo Phil says:

    “10Gbps and uploads of around 1.5Gbps” What a terrible ratio again, seems to show Virgin Media keeping to DOCSIS which is only a similar kludge to what xDSL is for telephone lines and should be being faced out. Bizarrely they also replicate DOCSIS over fibre so that has all the same limitations! By the time VM has deployed DOCSIS 4.0 in any great numbers Openreach will be upgrading to symmetrical 10Gbps.

    Virgin Media: Super Extra Plus Ultrahub with our best ever Wi-Fi, 2Gbps broadband only £99.99 a month*

    * upload speed is 51Mbps. Pricing £109.00 after first month, then 10 months @ £150.00, after the first year £179.00 a month, only available where our Top TV package at £39.00 a month is taken, only available in selected areas, subject to congestion, no guaranteed on speed or latency, not recommended for low latency requirements, new customers only, one offer per household per lifetime. Requires taking our Anti-Virus and full Family Surfing protection product free for the first month then £29.00 a month. Offer only available when the TV package is upgraded to 4K UHD at £12.00 a month. We will charge a random £7.50 extra a month just because you’ll not have read this far and we can hide behind our terms and conditions.

    1. Avatar photo Rich says:

      Just wait, 10gbit broadband but only 1gbit ethernet ports.

    2. Avatar photo Ronnie Pickering on Tour says:

      You should have a job – that’s the best and clearest bullshit VM small print i’ve ever read! – well played!

  4. Avatar photo TheAmazingRandy says:

    numberwagging is boring. What is any home user going to do with 10Gbit.
    give me 100/100 and ill be happy. I have 350/10 at the moment and I have no need for the 350 either, but 10 up is rubbish

    1. Avatar photo Buggerlugz says:

      Very true. I think most people would be more than happy with 100/100 these days. But at what ludicrously inflated price?

    2. Avatar photo Awx says:

      The issue that most people seem to forget is that prices will of course be expensive for these things as they’re not necessities and instead luxuries, on top of that you have the cost of the equipment, maintaining said equipment, emoloyee wages, contracts with companies for digging equipment if needed, contracts with companies (unfortunate like Arris). If VM were a small time provider only just starting then sure, they could probably make their prices cheaper, but currently they’re around half the U.K. in coverage so it’s safe to say that costs are high. Unfortunately the service some receive isn’t high, but that’s why other providers exist.
      You’re paying a luxury price for a luxury, if you want it cheaper then consider working for them & then you’ll be cheap as buttons (£15.50 according to Research)

    3. Avatar photo Ronnie Pickering on Tour says:

      @Buggerlugz

      I pay £248 a month for 100/100 through cityfibre corporate as I can’t get their consumer offers here – weird huh! 🙁

  5. Avatar photo Olly says:

    All access networks should be moving to 10Gbps-capable technologies (e.g. DOCSIS 3.1/4.0 and XGS-PON) in the next few years. It’s nothing to do with the headline speed. If you have a 2.5Gbps GPON network, this translates into support for ~40Mbps peak average per subscriber (assuming 32 subs per PON & 1 Gbps headroom for burst). Similar calculation for the higher split ratios used with HFC. This is OK for today’s applications but less so within the 7+ year equipment lifecycles required to depreciate access network investments.

  6. Avatar photo Alb says:

    I wonder whether VM could hive off their FTTP installations to form an unfettered stand alone network that might be competitive with the myriad of other companies offering symmetrical service over fibre. It just seems daft that it’s inherent capability is dragged down by the legacy infrastructure.

  7. Avatar photo Gavin says:

    It is good to see VM with one eye on the future. The quote from Mike Fries about the question of speed shows he has an understanding of past conversations where people stifled the deployment of newer faster technologies by keep repeating “well, why do you need that extra speed?”.

    I think VM are in a race to keep up against FTTP competitors when it comes to speeds. The advantage VM have is that it has its own tv platform, so its able to offer services bundled together. I predict eventually a similar setup will come to FTTP (we already know Sky are moving to a dish-less option).

    As a consumer it is good to see the market become competitative again, from building out new networks, to upgrading the speeds. If there is one small silverlining in covid is that I think it as focused minds on the importance of our broadband networks.

  8. Avatar photo JitteryPinger says:

    Funny to see this news story come up, just this morning I’ve told Virgin over on they’re forums that the days of having the lead in speed are coming to an end and they will need to buck up their customer service rep.

    My honest opinion is a total overhaul on how customer service is spread and sorting out there automated systems is number 1 place to start with calls just failing a lot in recent months.

    No more oversea’s people, higher quality call links and availability of information for the operators, a customer service team, a technical team and retention’s team.

    Make jobs available across the country for work from home, local people getting local people is a huge seller in my opinion.

    1. Avatar photo Gavin says:

      The bad customer service reputation is the main I’ve always been reluctant to consider VM.

      From what I’ve seen they need better communication with their customers and to fix problems quicker instead of waiting until so many people in the area have the same issue before they fix it.

    2. Avatar photo JitteryPinger says:

      I agree though issues go way beyond just what happens in performance,

      just trying to get a billing issue fixed takes more than one call and when each call can take hours…..

      Having a better online support system would help matters alot, maybe even help with customer support line waits but in my world employing people and training them right is the right move and outsourcing is not an option.

  9. Avatar photo Random Precision says:

    Anyone who wants to check if Openreach are planning FTTP in their area here’s a link.

    https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/fibre-first

  10. Avatar photo henry says:

    The article says 4.0 requires node+0, but that is a misunderstanding. 4.0 combines two different ways to build the network: full duplex (FDX) and frequency division duplex (FDD). It is true that real FDX currently requires node+0, but FDD does not.

    1. Mark-Jackson Mark Jackson says:

      Hmm is there enough purpose in going D4.0 without FDX though, although cost is a big issue but your upstream is going to surely suffer. I guess we’ll have to see how VM approaches it, but that won’t be for a long time.

    2. Avatar photo henry says:

      Yes, the capacity is similar. FDX goes to 1.2 GHz, where FDD goes to 1.8 GHz. The higher frequency makes the difference.

    3. Avatar photo A_Builder says:

      I would **guess** FDD as this will be cheaper and they probably won’t be worried about 10G/10G.

      I do think the VM are feeling the heat in FTTP areas and realise that they have to do something pretty quickly.

      We will see 3.1 upstream pretty soon now.

      D4 testing will probably start as soon as they can get some hardware out of the labs for testing. Is there commercial D4 hardware on the shelf yet: the spec is agreed but I had not heard of anything being distributed?

    4. Avatar photo henry says:

      Nodes and modems are expected to be available around 2023/24.

    5. Avatar photo Matthew says:

      I would think any cable network would be going towards FDX as it gives a far better future plan then the FDD version. Getting less coax out of the network and more fibre into the network for a company who is also doing a Fibre rollout it makes more sense going forward else you are just giving up a major advantage to competitors like Cityfibre if not.

    6. Avatar photo A_Builder says:


      I would think any cable network would be going towards FDX as it gives a far better future plan then the FDD version. Getting less coax out of the network and more fibre into the network for a company who is also doing a Fibre rollout it makes more sense going forward ”

      I agree with you but their investment strategy has tended to be very penny pinching.

      Personally I would go node+0 because you can then swap the last drop from coax -> FTTP at will.

      Between now and 2025 VM are going to burning some serious market share.

      By 2025 a good % of the country will be on full FTTP.

      Assuming 2025 is full deployment…..

    7. Avatar photo Matthew says:

      Node 0+ would also increase reliability and upkeep similar to how FTTP does compared to FTTC. They have been able get away with penny pinching agreed but they are fast approaching the point where a significant investment plan will be required as like FTTP going to Node 0+ is going to take years.

    8. Avatar photo A_Builder says:

      @Matthew

      I agree with you that VM need to get their skates on.

      I’m not sure they can afford to wait for D4 TBH.

      By the time D4 is implemented it will be too late.

      Also, as you say, the costs If running a coax network are far higher than pure fibre.

  11. Avatar photo Lawrence says:

    It looks like a mashup of bt youview and the existing TiVo interface. I hope sometime in the future virgin can sort their relibabilty issues in my area out, issue a better router and improve customer service. Then they might stand a chance of getting my custom again.

    As it stands I choose relatively slow adsl broadband over being ripped off for expensive often unusable and unreliable broadband virgin, with appalling customer service.

  12. Avatar photo Ben says:

    Would be nice to hear some updates on their IPv6 support. Been a long time coming.

    Also with these extra speeds & DOCSIS 4.0 won’t they need to release another hub? Since the current Hub only supports DOCSIS 3.1 and can’t spit out faster than ~950mbps on ethernet.

    1. Avatar photo Matthew says:

      Beyond a doubt a new Hub will be on it’s way they are already doing trials of 2GBps download. no way would they commerically launch that and have a hobbled router.

  13. Avatar photo Carl W says:

    I have been waiting for a month for VM to call me back regarding a new customer enquiry. Not a word. The overseas call centre teams they use are pathetic. Why waste money on network upgrades when they can’t get the basics right.

  14. Avatar photo Paul P says:

    Been with VM for quite a few years thru the hard times & the great, sadly I just got fed up with them constantly putting the prices up plus their routing seemed to be getting worse before I left plus last few months with VM was annoying as it kept going off (light flashing meaning ranging) hence why I left.
    Just before I left was paying £40/m (100down/12up) JUST for internet, we’ve now switched to sky (only because of deal) on FTTP via openreach on Super fast 1 which now incorporates our landline via VOIP for £27/m (WITH FREE INSTALL & EQUIPMENT) plus Sky super fast 1 is 145down/28up but in reality it’s based on Openreach 160/30 profile.
    Their equipment is meh but it will do! Mainly just wanted it cheap so could have fibre install for free lol then after 18m when deal & contract ends I’ll be ringing for better deal or bye bye sky lol least all the fibre ONT box is already here making switching easier.

  15. Avatar photo Oscar says:

    I can’t wait for the day I can leave Virgin Media. I have zero brand loyalty, and have infact been scammed by their customer services multiple times. Their word has no value.

    The only reason I remain with them is that no one else provides a decent service in my area, but the second that changes I’ll switch – whether they’re using DOCSIS 3.1 or 4.0 at that point…

Comments are closed

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