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ISP TalkTalk Calls on UK Gov to Help Boost Full Fibre Take-up UPDATE

Tuesday, Sep 20th, 2022 (7:54 am) - Score 3,720
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Low-cost broadband ISP TalkTalk has called on the government to be more proactive in encouraging the take-up of new full fibre and other gigabit speed capable networks. One of their proposals calls for a national information and awareness campaign to help highlight the benefits of such connections.

At present the industry is still primarily focused upon rolling out new networks and, to be fair, a lot of operators are putting a fair bit of effort into promoting their availability in the areas where they’re digging. But such efforts don’t always reach everybody and a fair few consumers are still uncertain about whether to upgrade, which in some cases may also require customers to switch ISP (many are apprehensive about that).

NOTE: The latest data from Thinkbroadband estimates that nearly 71% of UK premises can access a gigabit-capable broadband network, which falls to nearly 41% when only looking at full fibre (FTTP) technology.

In response, TalkTalk commissioned Frontier Economics to study the issue, which highlighted that even in countries with strong coverage of full fibre networks (e.g. Spain and Portugal), some 20% of those who could upgrade still haven’t made the leap. The UK’s prior rollout of so-called “superfast broadband” (30Mbps+) is given as another example, where it’s predicted that 99% of premises will be covered by 2030, but “only” 75% will have migrated.

According to the FT‘s (paywall) summary of this report, which at the time of writing has yet to be published, network operators need to win around a 40% market share in the locations where they operate for their business model to be viable (via both retail and wholesale outlets). However, in the past we’ve tended to be told that the minimum figure is usually around 20% to 30%, but it will vary a lot depending upon the area (dense urban vs rural) and type of build (demand-led or general deployment). The use of existing cable ducts and poles (e.g. PIA) can also add a bit more flexibility.

The report ends by calling on the UK government to run an information and awareness campaign about the benefits of full fibre broadband, as well as highlighting the need to introduce a full fibre employee subsidy scheme and to create a right to the technology for social housing tenants (this is often more a matter of securing wayleaves / access for related deployments).

Tristia Harrison, TalkTalk’s CEO, said:

“The whole dialogue needs to move to consumer take-up … The near-term economics and health of the sector are under threat. Unless there’s take-up, there isn’t the revenue that underpins network operators’ build and that’s bad news for … the economy and for the country.”

The new report is, to some significant extent, merely re-treading ground that was already covered by last year’s report (here) from the Gigabit Take-Up Advisory Group (GigaTAG). The GigaTAG report called for various changes to be introduced, such as clearer labelling of products (i.e. to help highlight the advantages of full fibre) and more advertising campaigns, but so far we’ve seen precious little movement on its recommendations. We recommend reading our summary of that for a more comprehensive overview of the situation.

Nevertheless, any new advertising campaign would face challenges, since it would need to be ISP neutral and would also have to grapple with today’s highly complex and confusing market – featuring an abundance of choice and varying different levels of network availability between locations. Not to mention that network availability changes dramatically each week as new infrastructure gets deployed.

However, it’s important to mention that older copper networks are slowly being withdrawn, which means that, eventually, consumers will be migrated to a gigabit-capable network no matter what approach is taken on the promotion side today. But it will still take a decade or more for Openreach to fully withdraw their copper lines, although smaller players like WightFibre have already completed this step (here) and KCOM will be next (here).

As for those who are apprehensive about switching to a different network or ISP, it’s worth pointing out that Ofcom’s new One Touch Switch (OTS) process is due to go live from April 2023, which is designed to make it as easy and simple to switch between physically different network platforms as it is to move between providers on Openreach’s platform today.

UPDATE 9:21am

TalkTalk has now released a more detailed summary of the report, which warns that up to 33% of consumers will not take up full fibre connectivity unless changes are made. The ISP is recommending some immediate actions which the Government, Ofcom and industry can all take to “ensure consumers are well informed and incentivised to switch.” We’ve listed these below.

Government:

  • Set and track Take Up target alongside roll-out target to create shared ambition and momentum
  • New ‘Gigabit UK’ cross-government taskforce to coordinate consumer migration and monitor progress on adoption

Ofcom:

  • Support better consumer understanding of FTTP e.g. promoting benefits of new product and establish clarity on terminology
  • Set a framework for copper switch-off to aid industry discussions and support customer awareness at the appropriate time
  • Reset regulatory approach to put the consumer at the heart of FTTP policy

Industry:

  • An ‘FTTP first’ mindset
  • Clearer and consistent marketing of FTTP to build consumer awareness
  • Closer co-ordination with civil society on migration of customers.

The full list of recommendations from Frontier Economics are:

Government:

  • Create a right for FTTP for tenants
  • Require property listings to show if a property is FTTP enabled
  • Introduce an FTTP employee benefit scheme
  • Run an information campaign on FTTP benefits
  • Co-ordinate FTTP migration competitions

Ofcom

  • Set and publicise expected copper switch off date
  • Publish data on consumers’ FTTP broadband experience
  • Update marketing guidelines to focus on reliability
  • Require social tariffs to be provided via FTTP where possible

Industry

  • Openreach to commit to higher level of service for FTTP fault repair than FTTC or ADSL fault repair
  • Industry to set up dedicated support channels for elderly customers and other vulnerable groups.
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Mark-Jackson
By Mark Jackson
Mark is a professional technology writer, IT consultant and computer engineer from Dorset (England), he also founded ISPreview in 1999 and enjoys analysing the latest telecoms and broadband developments. Find me on X (Twitter), Mastodon, Facebook and .
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35 Responses
  1. Avatar photo Karen says:

    This doesn’t need the government to spend lots of money on an information campaign. All it needs is when someone renews their contract, the ISP and they have full fibre available, the ISP arranges for them to be moved from copper to fibre. They can stay on the same package(speed) if they don’t want anything faster.

    A simple process that doesn’t need a fortune being spent.

    This seems to be happening by some ISP’s already. Neighbour was on FTTC. When they renewed, ISP told them FTTP was available and they could have a higher speed at the same price as what they’d paid 2 years ago. They moved to FTTP. Estate of about 200 houses had Openreach FTTP added 18 months ago. About 50% uptake

  2. Avatar photo Ad47uk says:

    Who in their right mind would take any notice of stuff that comes from our government? People will not change if it costs them more, certainly now with the cost of living.
    Ofcom’s new One Touch Switch? I hope it is better than the system they have now.

    I have chatted to a few people who have no interest in changing because they don’t see any gain, which is what I think,

    1. Avatar photo Keith turner says:

      I would love fibre my previous address had good fibre 200 yards up the road but BT won’t give date when it’s here and all isp”s are waiting for BT most annoying !

    2. Avatar photo Richard says:

      Totally agree

    3. Avatar photo Ad47uk says:

      @Keith turner, it should be available for people who want it, the problem is we are so far behind in this country, fibre is not new technology/ I hope it comes to you soon, but sadly companies will only lay fibre if they think it is going to make them money or they have had a load of money chucked at them.

  3. Avatar photo Bob says:

    A big problem is a lot of FTTH is being rolled out by alt nets which normally means you have to change ISP. A further problem is some alt nets dont provided a fixed line phones service meaning you have to use one company as the ISP and another for the phone. Probably most people are not going to want the hassle

    Where the current ISP can provide a FTTH & the same phone service at the same price then the default should be perhaps to switch the customer to FTTH. There should be though no installation cost and it should be treated as a continuation of any existing contract

    It should though be made very prominent that the customer can opt out and say be given 14 days to do so

    1. Avatar photo Ad47uk says:

      @Bob, I agree with you that some people may not want to change networks, but not all providers even on the openreach network is offering voice, like plusnet, so if people want a phone with the same number they still have to source out a VoIP service.
      I already have VoIP, but to be honest with the amount of time it is used these days I was thinking of knocking it on the head, but at the moment it costs me nothing to keep, apart from the energy to keep the box and phone/s running.

      that is a problem with FTTP, more energy use as it need a ONT and router.

  4. Avatar photo Humphrey says:

    They need to actually remember some people were missed when cable was laid – and some people have been missed by the alt net rollouts – so it’s not so much an issue of take up more of supply and demand!

    Can’t take up what is not on offer after all.

    1. Avatar photo Stu says:

      All so helps if talktalk fits fiber when they say they will waited 3 weeks to go live no one arrived on the day came the next day and said wrong team sent bye complete waist of time

  5. Avatar photo Martin says:

    The problem is that ISP’s who use the Openreach FTTP network, don’t tell their customers that FTTP is now available at their address. Because the customer has to actually request it or most of the time they don’t even know it’s now available at their address.
    Then you get the people who have telegraph poles in front of their houses with new FTTP kit on them and when they change supplier they still connect to the copper network, because they don’t know what the new kit is on the telegraph poles. You also have people that already think they already have fibre, because FTTC has been mis-sold for more than a decade.
    Lots of people don’t understand anything about broadband they just want it to work.

    1. Avatar photo James Band says:

      I completely agree that they (the ISPs) have often mismarketed copper from a Cabinet as “Superfast Fibre” for years. And frankly many have charged obscene prices for what they were giving people since the products sold had a lot of leeway. For instance, all other things being equal, three houses on an FTTC “Superfast Fibre up to 35Mbps” product may pay the same price, but one house may get average line speeds of 20Mbps, another 5Mbps with constant drop outs and the other 1Mbps.

      They should never have been allowed to market copper from a Cabinet as “Fibre broadband” to begin with. Nor frankly have such “Get out of Jail Free” cards being allowed to market as “Up to X” speed with such large Bands on Copper with various houses being different distances from a Cabinet.

      Maybe they ought to actually market their whole range properly from now on. Pointing out the reliability and consistent speed that an actual Fibre product would give.

      On top of that, as others have mentioned, if the price is more competitive, then the customers will come. It probably doesn’t help that a lot of the Customer Service Departments selling their products often have people who may not even understand what they are selling which will inevitably lead to miscommunication as well.

  6. Avatar photo NE555 says:

    “a national information and awareness campaign to help highlight the benefits of such connections”

    If consumers find that FTTP costs 50p per month more than they currently pay, they won’t switch. Conversely, if you make it 50p per month cheaper, they will.

    There’s no point highlighting the other “benefits”. As far as the customer is concerned, those benefits mainly accrue to the network operator (e.g. a lower fault rate translates to lower costs for the operator).

    As for faster connection: those who want it already know, and those who don’t are happy with what they have. To the vast majority it’s no more interesting than getting “faster” electricity or gas.

  7. Avatar photo JamesP says:

    This doesn’t need government intervention. Simply make the faster FTTP services cheaper than existing FTTC services – this will encourage take up (offer the faster FTTP services at contract renewal).

    For example, if an 80Mbps FTTC service (where most will likely connect at around 40-60Mbps) is around £26 with Plusnet, make the 150Mbps full fibre service £25 or less (not £31).

    For the vast majority of customers with fast/stable FTTC connections above 50Mbps, there will be very little desire to upgrade unless the FTTP service is cheaper.

    It’s not rocket science.

    1. Avatar photo Humphrey says:

      Already being done.. Plusnet 26/5 via FTTC £29,99 a month even with discount – Sky 60/15 via FTTP £25 a month… or from what I am told by someone who made the switch recently.

      Totally agree with you however

    2. Avatar photo Ad47uk says:

      @JamesP, I agree that pricing is a problem, people are not going to pay more if they are getting no benefit, sure people on here and forums go on about advantages of FTTP other than speed with reliability and that sort of thing, but for people that have had no problem with their FTTc service, they will ask you what reliability problems?
      I had a problem when I recontracted with plusnet last year and yes that was an openreach network problem, but it is solved now, it took months to solve, but I could still use broadband, just needed to keep a Huawei modem in line, which was no problem. Once the problem was sorted, I have no idea what they did, but something was changed at the cabinet at some point. I only realised because I decided to try the zyzel again a few months after and it synced. But the system have been rock solid since and before that.
      sure i could say if i went to FTTH, I would not have that problem again, but then I may not have that problem again on FTTC and could have a different problem with FTTH.
      People seem to think that FTTH is infallible, but it is not. I chat to someone online and they have FTTP via Openreach, and they had a problem that took 2 weeks to solve, turned out that the fibre had been damaged due to land movement, took openreach a while to find out where. I thought they had equipment to test for that.

      I am not asking for cheaper prices on FTTP, ok I would not turn it down, but then I don’t want to spend more for something that will not have any advantage for me and I think many people think the same way, then there is the hassle of having it installed. I chat to a few people that see no advantage for them.

      When I first heard we were having FTTP in the city via Zzoomm, I was excited, I thought great this is what we need, I will get it. I was even planning not to renew my plusnet contract and wait for Zzoomm to come up here, after all, they were supposed to be up here by the summer. I decided not to wait, and I am glad I did not as I would be paying full out of contract prices for Plusnet for about 9 months and while Zzoomm is up where I live now, still no idea when it will become live.
      It was a few months ago when I decided to look if I really needed FTTP and looking at the pros and cons for me, it turned out to be no, I don’t require it at this moment in time. The speed i get with FTTC does all I require

    3. Avatar photo Martin says:

      If FTTP from YouFibre is available, you can currently get a symmetric 1 gigabit connection for £25, wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
      Plus you can get many free months of broadband before you start paying monthly.

  8. Avatar photo LincolnshireLeftOut says:

    Am happy to take it up. Problem is that we can’t get it and won’t likely til beyond 2026.

    I suspect many others are in the same boat but nothing we can do about it

    1. Avatar photo Humphrey says:

      Depends where in Lincs you are.. Now Lightspeed is live in Skeg and the other places they will expand. There are now 3 alt nets in Lincs and the Wolds

    2. Avatar photo LincolnshireLeftOut says:

      There’s Openreach, Lightspeed, Netomnia/YouFibre, Upp and Quickline all planning but nothing in my area even though the nearest FTTP property via Openreach is less than 1 mile away.

    3. Avatar photo GNewton says:

      @Humphrey: Just because LightSpeed announces that it would cover a certain town doesn’t actually mean much. More often than not they don’t have proper rollout plans. And they don’t tell you certain things, such as the questionable usage of CGNAT etc. Same is often true with other altnets, e.g. LitFibre comes to my mind. Not that Openreach is much better either, it still uses old GPON technology and offers no symmetric fibre.

      You really have to do your research before signing up with an ISP.

      The telecoms industry needs stricter regulation and more transparency. There will be many losers in this fibre goldrush mentality.

  9. Avatar photo Aaron says:

    Cityfibre FTTP is available where I am but I have been reading that customers are having trouble getting their own routers to work with it, it has something to do with VLAN IDs and they’ve been trying a few such as 101, 911, 0, and getting nowhere with it. For that reason, I’m holding off from upgrading in the meantime. ISPs need to be more open and allow us to use our own custom routers or we will not switch.

    1. Avatar photo Anthony says:

      You are blaming CityFibre for a clear ISP issue. I have TalkTalk and I use my own router and I didn’t even need to put in a username or password as TalkTalk offers its FTTP over DHCP.

  10. Avatar photo Jack ma says:

    Why would we use tax money to advertise for private business are these not the same business that have caused this by claiming “full fibre” when it 100% was not and are now surprised when there customers who know little to nothing about how internet works don’t see a reason too switch as they think they already have full fibre

    1. Avatar photo James Band says:

      Spot on!

      They had no problem when it was the other way round as they all falsely marketed copper from a Cabinet as “Superfast Fibre”.

    2. Avatar photo Ad47uk says:

      @Jack ma

      Taxpayers money have been used for years for broadband, piles of taxpayers money have been pushed into different companies including Openreach for them to roll out broadband in places they would not normally have done.

      @James Band

      agree with both Jack and you about them telling people that FTTC was fibre, this is why people are confused and say, “I already have fibre ”

      Saying that FTTC is certainly better than ADSL for most people, I had 2.5Mb/s a second on ADSL, just about allowed me to watch Netflix and that was it, which is why I went to wireless broadband until they went belly up.
      FTTC was a big improvement to ADSL.
      I still remember dial up and I kind of miss those days and when i had my Amiga and used to dial up a BBS.

    3. Avatar photo GNewton says:

      The farce of calling VDSL “fibre broadband” was caused by the ASA which simply failed to do its job properly.

    4. Avatar photo James Band says:

      @Ad47uk

      Yes indeed. I remember the old days of dial up modems.

      Frankly a lot of these ISPs have charged obscene prices for what they were giving people since the products sold had a lot of leeway. For instance, all other things being equal, three houses on an FTTC “Superfast Fibre up to 35Mbps” product may pay the same price, but one house may get average line speeds of 20Mbps, another 5Mbps with constant drop outs and the other 1Mbps.

      There should have been and should be rigorous rules that prohibit marketing Copper from a Cabinet as “Fibre”. Only Full Fibre should be marketed as such. If the price charged for the Copper product had to also be based on actual line speed (like in the example above) with much tighter bands (e.g. Up to 5Mbps, Up to 10 Mbps), then that would have stopped them squeezing the Copper broadband stone dry all these years and given them an incentive to offer Full Fibre products if only to earn more money in the process.

  11. Avatar photo FibreBubble says:

    If FTTP doesn’t sell it should not be down to taxpayers to bail out the very wealthy backers of pie in the sky business plans.

  12. Avatar photo Duncan says:

    They over build well serviced areas then wonder why there is no take up

    First alt net down here will clean up as they will have a captive audience

  13. Avatar photo Peter says:

    Just don’t sell FTTC and when customers contract end change from to FTTP simple

  14. Avatar photo Robert says:

    FTTP in my are available since 2019.
    BT started sell FTTP packages since 2019, rest providers: EE, Vodafone, Sky started sell FTTP packages in my area from 2021.
    TalkTalk can’t offer FTTP packages at all in my area.
    No one can explain why most ISP can supply FTTP packages, but TalkTalk – won’t.

  15. Avatar photo Just a thought says:

    Maybe they should be more concerned about an information campaign for the switch off of POTS, that’s likely to cause more confusion.
    As for TT on that front, asking their live chat whether it was worth switching to their FTTP, and if I did what their policy on VOIP would be, they were unable to point me to ANY information on their own website, as to their OWN policy!

    1. Avatar photo Ad47uk says:

      Yeah, there are people confused about the switch off of POTS, I know people who still only have a telephone and no broadband at all and they were confused until I explained what will happen.

      I have not phoned up Talk Talk for a few years now, and if they are as bad now as they were then, all i can say is good luck.
      I did send a message to them on behalf of someone else when they installed ADSL instead of FTTC. That went okish and they did eventually change them over

  16. Avatar photo Stu Holliday says:

    Sounds like ‘please help us the outscourcing company we are using aren’t very good at selling full fibre”

    It’s common across the ISP’s and Altnets.

  17. Avatar photo mary P says:

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    The +90 new channels added today, include over 40 additional sports channels across football, motorsports, esports, combat sports and recently added golf. Other include Bloomberg Television, Gusto TV, Qwest music channels and Fuel TV…!

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    The new channels have been automatically added to TalkTalk’s 4K TV Box, which means that customers can enjoy watching all the new content right away. Content is also available on the go via the TalkTalk TV mobile app at no additional cost. The new services are found below channel 850

    https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2022/09/29/talktalk-tv-adds-90-free-hd-channels/

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