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BT Confirm Final UK ISP Prices and Launch of 330Mbps FTTP on Demand

Thursday, March 28th, 2013 (4:06 pm) - Score 12,071

BTOpenreach, which manages access to BT’s national telecoms network in the United Kingdom, has today confirmed the final pricing and launch date for its premium “ultra-fast330Mbps (30Mbps uploads) capable FTTP-on-Demand (FTTPoD) based fibre optic broadband service (this will be available to all FTTC supporting lines).

The expensive new service will officially become available to ISPs across the United Kingdom from 29th April 2013, although this will be as part of an Early Market Deployment (EMD). An early market launch is the last step before official/full commercial availability, although it doesn’t include the same “guaranteed service levels” as BT’s final product.

In terms of pricing, little has changed. A fixed £500 one-off installation fee will apply to all orders, which will be in addition to a distance-based construction charge that will vary depending on how far away your home or business is from BT’s nearest NGA Aggregation Node.

Openreach today estimates that more than half of premises (55%) will incur a distance based charge of between £200 – £1000 and “virtually all other premises” will face a charge of between £1,400 – £3,500. Suffice to say that even the cheapest deal will require deep pockets.

A Spokeswoman for Openreach told ISPreview.co.uk

We can confirm that Openreach will start to make its FTTP on Demand product available on a wholesale basis to communications providers from the end of April.

As indicated previously, Openreach is slashing the monthly rental cost of its FTTP service – upon which FoD is based – from £60 per month to £38 per month, to make it more attractive to industry and their customers.

In addition to a fixed installation fee of £500, a distance based construction charge will also apply, reflecting the costs of building a fibre network direct to a customer’s premise. In line with what we’ve said previously, we estimate that more than half of premises will incur a distance based charge of between £200 and £1000. Premises that are further away from the relevant part of the fibre network will incur a higher charge due the extra engineering work involved.

“It will be up to communications providers to decide whether to pass these charges on to consumers and businesses.”

A small percentage of orders will also incur an Excess Construction Charge (ECC) in addition to the other charges, which could cost up to several thousand pounds (here). It’s important to stress that most of these prices are what ISPs will be expected to pay BT, which doesn’t factor the need for a profit margin or additional services etc. (i.e. the final retail price will usually cost more).

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91 Responses
  1. Avatar sam says:

    I wonder if they will have a website that will tell you how much it will cost you by putting in your postcode and house number.

    1. Avatar Gareth says:

      That’s what I was wondering. My cabinet is about 50 meters away. Wondering what the cost would be.

    2. Avatar FibreFred says:

      If they do (which I agree would be useful) I guess it would only be an estimator as you’d need a proper survey to get the proper cost

    3. Avatar Mark says:

      @sam price list here…
      Looks like average total cost (including the £500 standard connection fee)for someone slap band in the middle of bands A-G (IE using the Band D figure) will be around £2000. It also looks like its likely to involve a 36 Month contract. Or the long and short, a waste of time, not really a consumer product and certainly something no sane individual or even many small businesses are likely to consider.

    4. Avatar FibreFred says:

      Mark a small business would certainly consider this , the speed and stability of a leased line at a fraction of the cost

    5. Avatar Clive says:

      I own a small business and would not consider this. We currently have an AT&T line which cost far less to install than this will and gives more than 4 times the upload rate and nearly twice the download rate. 30Mb upload rates and you have to splurge thousands to have it installed, who are they kidding only a tool will buy or recommend this.

    6. Avatar FibreFred says:

      In the UK Clive?

    7. Avatar Clive says:

      Yes fibrefred 🙂

    8. Avatar FibreFred says:

      I would be interested to see the package you are on, where in the UK and exact price then

    9. Avatar Clive says:

      My business in located in Birmingham, the package is their Business only fibre product (available in PARTS OF London, Birmingham and Manchester, probably elsewhere but that is where i know you can get it and have been able to for years).

      The monthly price which is paid varies as the phone service is also delivered over the fibre line (only evening calls are included though that can be upgraded). The broadband side of things is something like £48 per month. Speed my organisation gets is approx 600Mb down and 200Mb up.

      Install charge from what i recall (its going back a few years now, the figure is likely different now but unlikely even near what FTTPoD will cost) was something like £300 TOTAL. That included all landline phone handsets for the business, can’t use standard BT ones connection at the wall is different, the fibre connection, install and router.

      AT&T are also considering getting into the residential/retail market, about a month or so ago there was news floating around that they may buy up EE to get hold of their fibre and mobile product.

      I doubt BTs product will be a success, for the type of money they want just for the install 30Mb uprates are way too slow for the money compared to what a few others are offering, sure it may be enough speed for most it would for my company but any business which can get an alternative which costs less and delivers better speeds won’t touch this.

      The location of my business also has several others in the vicinity, none of them from what i know are with BT. It is a pretty funny situation really as the area in Birmingham my business is located i think was one of the first in Birmingham to be BT FTTC enabled. Others that have no fibre product from any company in Birmingham were still waiting summer last year for BT to roll out FTTC. Why BT did not go for areas in Birmingham that had no fibre product first and clean up instead of enabling here with better competition i could not tell you.

      Hope that covers what you wanted to know 🙂

    10. Avatar DTMark says:

      The reason it’s so expensive is because it’s a monopoly outside cabled areas. I can’t honestly see anyone paying thousands of pounds to have the BT service when Virgin installs for free or next-to-nothing. Virgin isn’t fibre, no, but coax can deliver gigabit speeds anyway.

      Upgrade from your 30Meg FTTC to something faster – Virgin cost almost nothing, BT cost – thousands.

      As ever, the key to raising standards and lowering prices is competition and the lack of it is the only reason that BT’s product costs silly money.

      Thanks, BDUK. You really thought this through, worth every penny of the cash we sank into your worthless little quango.

    11. Avatar FibreFred says:

      Virgin installs are totally different in terms of physical deployment. Not sure you can compare the two.

    12. Avatar FibreFred says:

      …and just to clarify that I mean that typically Virgin cab’s are much closer to the premise, well within 50m (certainly where I am) which means much less in terms of materials/work there’s also less chance of their ducting being full.

      So a typical install I saw up the road from me, 20m of coax through their duct from the cab and a pavement cutter into the garden. Took about 1hr to fit the customer up.

    13. Avatar DTMark says:

      What you appear to be saying is that thanks to the age of the old phone network and the complete lack of investment in it in the 30 years since it has been in private hands, BT is in a very poor position to compete with VM infrastructurally.

      If so, I quite agree.

      In normal circumstances, private commercial companies like this just die away and we forget that they ever existed in the first place.

    14. Avatar Clive says:

      I have to agree with you there DTMark, in terms of a physical installation between Virgin and BT (ignoring the type of cable on all products be it BT or Virgin) there appears to be very little difference in how it is delivered. I do not see the point he is trying to make there.

      BT have a cable from a cabinet to a pole or underground point and then a final piece of cable from the pole or that underground point into a persons property. (same for all products be them fibre or copper).

      Virgin is the exact same. A cabinet, cable from that cabinet to pavement, then final bit of cable from that point into a persons premises.

      Virgin do not charge you more to install the last bit of cable if one person at the bottom of the road is 50 metres from their cabinet while the person at the top of the road is 1 metre away from it.

      Same with regards to the final piece of cable from the pavement into your home. Virgin do not charge a different rate to install that pavement to home bit of cable either (only time they would is if you dictate how you want the cable run). If you live in a big home and have a long driveway you pay an install fee which is just the same as someone living in a house where you take 2 steps outside and you are right on top of Virgins pavement to home point. Even more ironic that fee is often “FREE”

      If BTs ducts are lacking space maybe over the years as the population and amount of homes built has increased they should have replaced the ducts with larger versions. Even more so if they expect you to pay the same or an increased fee over the years. Surely that means they have been increasing the charges to customers (such as line rental) over the years for an ever decreasing quality of product, rather than one with improvements?

      If cabinets be they fibre or copper ones (it makes no difference to this argument as both are normally similar distances away) are so much further away then Virgins then that is hardly the consumers fault. Maybe BT should had fitted a considerably more cabinets over the years, instead of just in places they are forced to (IE no room left in cabinet/duct for a new housing build). Then perhaps the customer wouldn’t have to be paying thousands for a new product and another stupid long run of cable, like every product from them seems to have.

      I do not pay a different rate for a first class letter to be sent if im sending it 500 miles away or to a person a mile away. I do not pay more for my electricity if i live in an area where the “ducting” that carries the cables is more cramped than in other areas of the country.

      Sorry fred but poor excuse for BT you have made there.

    15. Avatar FibreFred says:

      “BT is in a very poor position to compete with VM infrastructurally.”

      Nope that’s not what I’m saying, I’m saying its not a good comparison. A better comparison would be if the pole already had fibre on it, in terms of work for the engineers that would then compare between Virgin & BT.

      From the pole to the prem (BT)
      From the cab to the prem (Virgin)

    16. Avatar Clive says:

      “From the pole to the prem (BT)
      From the cab to the prem (Virgin)”

      I may be wrong but i thought both companies and all their product range (except for BTs NON-On Demand FTTP product) went….

      Cabinet to pole/kerbside…. Kerbside to home.

      BTs copper, FTTC and FTTPOD products go cabinet to pole to home.
      Virgins product goes cabinet to kerbside point to home.

      So no difference unless i missed something.

      In fact the more i think about this the less sense it makes for BT to be charging varying rates depending on how far you are from the cabinet/aggregation point for their FTTPOD product.

      They do not charge different rates on their copper products according to how much copper run you have, so why are they doing it with their FTTPOD product?

      Surely a singular setup/install fee for all rather than a fee based on where BT decided to shove a cabinet would be more fair to everyone?

    17. Avatar FibreFred says:

      I’m not getting into that one again. You know FTTPoD doesn’t use the cabinet

      Its easy enough to understand

      When a customer wants a new BT copper phone line, in the vast majority of cases the cable just comes from the pole and uses an existing feed, so.. not much work, distance is usually sub 50metres

      When a customer wants a new Virgin cable connection the connection just comes from its local cabinet, again 50-100m, not much work

      When a customer wants a new FTTP or FTTPoD connection a fibre cable needs to be run from the aggregation node to the premises, the node won’t be as close as BT’s pole or Virgin’s cabinet hence it being different work/pricing.

      “Clive” 😉

    18. Avatar Clive says:

      “I’m not getting into that one again. You know FTTPoD doesn’t use the cabinet”

      Sorry i thought the fibre ran from an aggregation node or the cabinet to the pole and then a persons home for BT’s FTTPOD service. I thought that was the reason it is only available in areas where FTTC is currently available. If it does not run from the cabinet or aggregation node where does it run from?

      As to your reasoning about distance and people paying more for the fibre the longer the run of fibre cable required in a FTTPOD install is, that still makes no sense.

      In the current FTTC solution you have fibre running from an exchange to a cabinet, and then from the cabinet to the pole its copper.

      Why in FTTC is the install a set standard price when obviously cabinets are at various distances from an exchange and thus some cabinets require longer fibre runs than others.

      Why does someone on a cabinet which only has a 200 metre run of fibre cable from that cabinet to the exchange pay the same as someone whos cabinet has a 1000 metre fibre cable run from cabinet to exchange? Surely those runs of fibre cable also cost different amounts did they not?

      BT charging per metre run of fibre for a FTTPOD service makes little sense from what i can see when you compare it to their other products and how they are priced.

      If anything they should be charging based on TOTAL length of fibre run from persons premises to the exchange. In theory you could have a person sat right next to the cabinet/aggregation point, lets call it 10 metres and thus they pay the lowest price for their FTTPOD install, but that cabinet may be 1000 metres or more from the exchange meaning in total the run of fibre cable is 1010 metres.

      Meanwhile someone who is 500 metres from a cabinet pays much more for their install but that cabinet may only have another 100 metre run of fibre from it to the exchange. Meaning a person with a total 600 metre fibre cable run pays more for the install than a person with a 1010 metre total run of cable.

      How does that make any sense again. Supplying cheaper to someone where you spent more on the total run of cable?

      I can see that you think it makes sense but personally just like DTMark i do not see your logic.

    19. Avatar TheFacts says:

      To answer the point about distance to the exchange – note that the fibre for many cabinets goes back to a different exchange to the copper pair, and could be up to 40km away.

    20. Avatar DTMark says:

      FibreFred – this is really simple.

      For one moment, forget you work for BT. Forget you ever worked in telecoms at all and you’re the “average punter”. The year is 2020. Not that far away.

      You move into your new home. You want a broadband connection. Three people in the house, allow for three streams @ 30Meg each so you want a basic 100 Meg connection, but you don’t need anything really seriously quick.

      You can choose between Virgin Media and something on the BT network.

      Virgin Media offer you 1Gbps with no installation fee and a 30 day money back guarantee.

      You look to see what BT is offering. “Well, we’ll have to do a survey”. They do the survey and send you the quote. They want £3,000. No money back guarantee, you’ll be held to contract regardless of the performance.

      Which would you, the average punter, choose?

      How would you view BT’s relevance to your needs?

      What would you think of the quality and fitness for purpose of BT’s network?

    21. Avatar Clive says:

      That is exactly my point in a FTTC install everyone is treated equal no matter how long the run of fibre and copper is to the persons premises. BT do not charge different install or connection costs for that product according to length of cable involved even though obviously to get the fibre to some cabinets it has cost them considerably more and involved more physical work to do certain cabinets. So i do not understand the point fred is trying to make.

    22. Avatar FibreFred says:

      DTMark, you are making so many presumptions its not worth responding to!

      Clive, you are talking about two different products which is why your not understanding

    23. Avatar Clive says:

      No i understand fine the FTTPOD product connection is charged based on distance the rest of BTs product range to the consumer is not.

    24. Avatar DTMark says:

      @FibreFred – I was genuinely interested to see whether you could see the situation from a perspective other than BT’s. Apparently not.

      Given I work with the internet every day and need a reasonable connection, I have never found BT to be even faintly relevant to my needs, since everywhere I go it just supplies telephone services and maybe a bit of narrowband, perhaps, sign up and we’ll see if we can do it. An “old phone company”. Isn’t it the case that it only managed to supply you with a broadband connection for the very first time just recently in 2013 😉

      I do not think the hypothetical scenario that I pose is unrealistic. Speed demands won’t expand in a linear fashion, but rather, an exponential one.

    25. Avatar FibreFred says:

      “I do not think the hypothetical scenario that I pose is unrealistic. ”

      But it is, totally. I’m open minded and I do not consider that realistic at all, which is why I didn’t add further comment 🙂

    26. Avatar FibreFred says:

      “I was genuinely interested to see whether you could see the situation from a perspective other than BT’s. Apparently not.”

      And with respect Mark (and I do mean that) can you see from anyone else’s perspective? I know you’ve obviously had your issues with BT in your experience, but what about the other millions of users?

    27. Avatar Clive says:

      Judging from BTs ranked 39 out of 50 place here…
      I think he has a far better idea of “user” experience of BT than someone that seems so pro you probably do indeed work for them.

    28. Avatar FibreFred says:

      Jog on Deduction

    29. Avatar Clive says:

      Jog what?

    30. Avatar TheFacts says:

      How many of those 50 ISPs use the BT local network? Confusion between BT as an ISP and as a network provider.

    31. Avatar FibreFred says:

      TheFacts, don’t be taken in by his trolling

    32. Avatar Clive says:

      “How many of those 50 ISPs use the BT local network? Confusion between BT as an ISP and as a network provider.”

      Quite a few which makes it even more ironic that BTs retail division provides such a lousy customer experience and service over the BT group network. Probably because as DTMark points out it more than likely has people like you working for them.

      Customer Experience something DTMark was talking about and by that i assume he means the ‘Retail’ division seeing as a customer does not deal directly with Openreach or Wholesale.

      Of course i may be wrong and perhaps you or Fred can tell me which BT division deals direct with and i quote “millions of users”.

      So far you appear to prefer to call people trolls and tell others/yourself to ignore my responses when you have no logical answer.

  2. Avatar Phil says:

    Not worth it to be honest, why do u need 330Mbps for ? It ok for business but not needing for home.

    1. Avatar Bob2002 says:

      Might not need this particular speed package(hopefully cheaper options will become available), but people who’ve had a bad experience with dodgy copper lines may well be tempted by a more reliable fibre optic alternative.

    2. Avatar Mel says:

      Just as Bob says, we’ve had/have dodgy copper(?) lines here, and I am somewhat tempted, although I still can’t justify the monthly cost. as they’ve been mostly ok over the last year.

  3. Avatar FibreFred says:

    So here it is as promised GEA-FTTP on demand 330Mbps product April 2013.

    Looks like Deduction dropped his crystal ball

  4. Avatar Phil says:

    BT could have other speed options eg: FTTPoD 110/30, 220/30 and 330/30 ?

    1. Avatar Darren says:

      There will be 5 speed tears: http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2012/10/btopenreach-to-withdraw-old-ultrafast-fttp-broadband-isp-products-by-2014.html

      I’d like to see higher upload, I think I remember reading somewhere the is a 38Mb bottleneck and going above that isn’t easy. Can anyone confirm/deny that?

    2. Avatar FibreFred says:

      On FTTP on demand? There isn’t a technical limit of 38Mb upload on GPON

    3. Avatar Darren says:

      Yeah, it’s vague in my memory and I can’t find it again. It went something like.. bt use “technical name” which have a 38Mb limit per “something”.

      It could of been BS or I’m remembering wrong and it related to something else.

      What I am sure about is I’d like more than 30Mb upload, especially if it’s costing several hundreds to get it installed.

  5. Avatar TheFacts says:


    GPON has a downstream capacity of 2.488 Gb/s and an upstream capacity of 1.244 Gbp/s that is shared among users.

    1. Avatar zemadeiran says:

      Your looking at a 1:4 split then a 4:8 split from there to serve 32 onu’s.

      Lets say for instance that they offer a u/d of 1:2 / 32 = 31.25mbps up per onu connecting back to a single port on the OLT. This does not mean that you have to limit each onu to 30mbps, you can allow them to hit 1.25gbps up.

      You could easily over subscribe the PON bandwidth by 10x to service 310 onu’s without any issue due to the nature of usage. The OLT should be able to take care of traffic prioritization ensuring fair share of resources etc.

      Not enough? Then have a look at 10G-PON: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10G-EPON

    2. Avatar Darren says:

      Bingo, 1244 / 32 = 38.875. So ~38 isn’t a limit but instead the max if you want uncontended upload to 32 users.

    3. Avatar FibreFred says:

      Correct all 32 users uploading at full rate would max out at 38Mbps, obviously that isn’t the norm and isn’t how you build/calculate the network, same goes for the download rate

      They could offer 50up/100up with no real worries

    4. Avatar Darren says:


      We can hope for 30 Mb up.. burstable to 1.244 Gbp/s 🙂

    5. Avatar FibreFred says:

      Lol maybe !

  6. Avatar fastman says:

    Clive exactly its not a a leased line replacement product — its a broadband product – its probably quite a niche product and could be expensive if a long way away from exchange

    1. Avatar Clive says:

      Product im on is not a lease line from what i understand. It has other products on it (phone service) and the cost per month is too cheap to be a lease line, unless AT&T also do very cheap lease lines.

  7. Avatar Darren says:

    Here is something interesting,

    Openreach will calculate the relevant distance band for an Order using the radial distance from the relevant aggregation node and calculated using the details recorded by Openreach.

    Radial distance.. what’s that? This link seems to say it’s straight line distance, while route distance is the line length..

    Radial distance is the straight line distance measured between the end-points of the circuit. Fibre route distance is the actual route length that the fibre takes between the circuit end-points.

    If I’m interpreting this right FTTP on demmand is cheaper than first thought, for some considerably so.

  8. Avatar Darren says:

    Formatting didn’t come out right in my last reply, lets try again.. I’d love a preview option, hint hint Mark 🙂

    Here is something interesting,


    “Openreach will calculate the relevant distance band for an Order using the radial distance from the relevant aggregation node and calculated using the details recorded by Openreach.”

    Radial distance.. what’s that? This link seems to say it’s straight line distance, while route distance is the line length..


    “Radial distance is the straight line distance measured between the end-points of the circuit. Fibre route distance is the actual route length that the fibre takes between the circuit end-points.”

    If I’m interpreting this right FTTP on demmand is cheaper than first thought, for some considerably so.

    1. Avatar FibreFred says:

      Good find, yes that is interesting!

    2. Avatar Clive says:

      Do those 2 links not refer to 2 different products? Confusing.

    3. Avatar Darren says:

      The products aren’t relevant, it’s the meaning BT attatch to the word Radial that’s important. And that’s what the links show, it’s unlikely the meaning of Radial differs from product to prodcuct.

      Before it was thought the distance based part of the FTTP on Demand charge was based on line length to the aggregation node, however now it seems it’s based on straight line length to the aggregation node. That means it’s going to be cheaper than first thought for a lot of people, some considerable so.

      Personally it moves me from band B to band A, so £400 + VAT less than originally thought.

      If you are lucky enough to be in an area where another provider can offer FTTP at a cheaper price then brilliant. They are few and far between though, for the majority the only option is a leased line at several thousands with high monthly costs. FTTP on Demand in comparison is pocket change, people will be spending more money on cigarettes in a year than it’ll cost to get FTTP on Demand installed, which is a one off cost.

    4. Avatar Clive says:

      “The products aren’t relevant, it’s the meaning BT attatch to the word Radial that’s important. And that’s what the links show, it’s unlikely the meaning of Radial differs from product to prodcuct.”

      The terminology “Fibre broadband” itself differs from product to product never mind just a single word meaning the same across their product range.

    5. Avatar Darren says:

      That’s a completely different kettle of fish and you know it. I suspected you were just trolling, now I have no doubt. You won’t get any more replys from me.

    6. Avatar FibreFred says:

      Darren, he’s trolling by proxy I’m sure you can imagine who I’m referring to

    7. Avatar Clive says:

      If you are referring to me im actually using a sever box. Bit immature to accuse people of trolling when you can not demonstrate the point you are trying to make.

  9. Avatar Phil says:

    I think the customer had the right to ask for free quote first from BT Openreach to find out how much it will cost the customer for FTTPoD installation charge and monthly fee before comitted agreement.

    1. Avatar FibreFred says:

      I’m sure that will be the case, no one will commit until they know the price

  10. Avatar Neil McRae says:

    are you sure its AT&T that deliver the last mile local loop? Suspect its either COLT or C&W or someone else.


    1. Avatar Clive says:

      I do not quite know what you mean buy last mile? Its a FULL FTTP product, length of fibre all the way to AT&T datacentre (or whatever they call it) in Birmingham no cabinets from what i know are involved.

      AFAIK no other company is involved, the bill each month is AT&T headed. Support and queries be it by phone or email about the service likewise are handled by AT&T. The IP address last time i checked it when doing a look up resolved to AT&T also.

  11. Avatar zemadeiran says:

    If I am correct, BT will be using GPON for the ftthod product which they have stated that will be available if there is already a fttc in place. The VDSL gear in the cabinet is connected back to the appropriate exchange with fibre.

    There is really no limit on back haul capacity from each cabinet and as such BT will be using this back haul for both products. Your spanking new ftthod will be GPON back to your nearest fttc cabinet, into a splitter and then back to the exchange.

    Remember, GEPON is available but as the fttc cabinet is already active they can run active fibre switches with 100gbps per port over 20km+ easily. Due to fibre’s reach, BT could also provides redundancy with several back haul links from each cab to different exchanges or cabinets.

    How about a mini fibre mesh using existing cabinets without single point of failure? If cabinets become the nodes and they have failure support built in you would then be able to route around failed nodes/cabinets aka tcp/ip…

    Would you even need a local exchange if BT switched over fully to voip etc?

    Connect each cab to three other cabs and you have a national fibre mesh.

    Thank you.

    1. Avatar Ignitionnet says:

      FTTPoD doesn’t connect to cabinets and doesn’t use the same backhaul.

    2. Avatar FibreFred says:

      Correct, FTTPoD is just GEA-FTTP with a different ordering process, the network components on FTTPoD are the same as FTTP.

      Don’t you remember the discussions with our resident network hero over the last few years Zem? 🙂 I’m talking about the one that said GEA-FTTP was point to point fibre not GPON and that on demand would not be possible at 330Mbps without upgrades and that it would launch at 100-150Mbps in 2013

      Shame he’s not around to read this… oh.. hang on…

  12. Avatar telecomengineer says:

    The fttpod built is exactly as fttp, exchange to aggregation node, spliiter node, distribution point, manifold then eu. Aggregation node will have a seperate fibre feeding a vdsl cab but aside from this technical point neither service touches eachother ( which makes bts refusal to fibre non fttc streets which are next to an aggregation node frustrating). It is a future proof build which will allow removal of all cabs in the decades ahead and gpon running 10gig in that trial bt did in cornwall. So the question is how much will bt plough into fttc in future? Running voice over ip from the cabs will need totally new innards to overcome the under provision of ports vs lines plus llu outrage if copper is removed from exchanges, and whilst bt are trailing vectoring is it worth encorporating into the estate with fttpod? Especially as they now seem willing to have the huge service impact of self installs on vdsl?
    Personally i see profile caps being lifted, maybe amplifiers on longer dsides on even the odd vdsl brick, i suspect at least 15 year lifespan with those changes possibly more, but eventually, even if it takes 100 years we will need to go fttp, and its good that the company had the forethought to enable an easy transition whenever that will be.

    1. Avatar Clive says:

      ” It is a future proof build which will allow removal of all cabs in the decades ahead”

      How so when its a product relying on people and not BT to pay for its deployment?

    2. Avatar FibreFred says:

      Weird logic?

      People always pay, do you think companies develop and build gratis?

    3. Avatar Ignitionnet says:

      He’s talking about the build being future proofed, not the product.

      People always pay, before use of the service in install and construction, and after in monthly fees.

    4. Avatar Clive says:

      There is no current install, connection or construction fees for a FTTC product from BT. Just rental of the connection. Even if there were the fee would be a singular not variable charge like the FTTPOD product. I would not call any service or build of a product future proof when you are going to charge a variable price for it. No other Fibre product currently does that.

  13. Avatar Zemadeiran says:

    Is there a PDF with network diagram for fttpod somewhere?

    1. Avatar zemadeiran says:

      Thanks FibreFred,

      Now can I get one covering the FTTP product?

      Telecomengineer has confused the shit out of me in regards to whether the two systems both run through the vdsl cabs or not…and IMHO I generally know a thing or two and try to look at things from a logical standpoint.

    2. Avatar FibreFred says:


      But I prefer this to be honest:-


      It’s straightforward enough.

      With GEA-FTTP BT deploys an OLT in the exchange and runs fibre to aggregation nodes out in the street, then the fibre from that agg node runs to the premises via ducts/poles.

      With GEA-FTTC BT deploys an OLT in the exchange and runs fibre to aggregation nodes out in the street, then the fibre from that agg node runs to the fibre cabinet, then then existing copper cabinet, to the home via existing copper.

      With GEA-FTTP (on demand) most of what is built for GEA-FTTP is already in place because when BT build the fibre out to the agg node to serve FTTC cabinets they include lots of extra fibre pairs at the agg node. So.. for On demand it is just a case of again fibre from that agg node runs to the premises via ducts/poles. It doesn’t hit the cabinet at all, the cabinet will just happen to use that same agg node and take the same route back to the exchange, different fibre pairs though.

      That is why they offer this in FTTC areas only because they’ve already done a lot of the work back to the exchange

  14. Avatar Bob says:

    This looks like BT are profiteering on FTTH. Yes costs are higher but over 50 years old they will be making a fortune on it

    BT exploiting their monopoly position. Maybe the competition will move in. The last mile fibre can in most areas be deployed quite cheaply with modern slot cutters. Paved areas would be a problem as would streets lined with trees

    1. Avatar FibreFred says:

      Nothing stopping the competition moving in

    2. Avatar TheFacts says:

      How are BT profiteering? We don’t know what internet access will be like in 10 years, let alone 50.

    3. Avatar DTMark says:

      Perhaps there are two possible explanations for these ludicrous charges:

      1. The BT network is so old, with blocked ducts all over the place and can be especially problematic when it comes to wiring up homes (“where’s the ducting”) that it never really was a suitable “template” for a broadband network and it may well have been cheaper to build the street-level ducting afresh with the benefit of scale.

      2. BT is profiteering, because it has been handed a pot of tax-payer cash and wherre there’s no cable and no competition it can provide whatever it likes at whatever price it likes.

      Neither of these bode well for the future.

    4. Avatar FibreFred says:

      1) Are they ludicrous?

      2) Have BT been handed tax payer cash for FTToD (the topic of discussion)?

  15. Avatar telecom engineer says:

    Yea aside from the aggregation node its a seperate system, you could burn down the cab and fttpod customers would be unaffected. The build caused a bit of controversy and frustration as bt refused fo use any existing fibre (and they have a lot of it out there) , had a rule that you could use newbuild for leased circuits but not existing provided fibre for fttc. With the announcement of fttpod this makes sense as they want a standardised modern fibre network with the capacity to go all fttp in future without having to rebuild in future which would have been the case if bt did fttc on the cheap using the last spare here or there on existing networks. Who pays for wjat is an invalid arguement. Eventually bt will have to pay to do everyone tostay competitive, but that may not be for 30/40 years. At present nobody needs such speed at home hence this is targeted at business. So either you will pay now because youd business can justify it or yoh want to jump a generation and add value to youd home. Personally I would stay with my 80 meg, but I am concerend this development may make the case for futher copper dsl investment less attractive, which would mean a longer wait for mass market to hit over 100 meg.

    1. Avatar FibreFred says:

      The way I see this working is that FTTPoD will be here for years to come maybe even 10yrs+ if you have the need for it, you’ll have to pay the install costs.

      When the market outgrows FTTC (bearing in mind future upgrades/vectoring etc etc) BT will push the fibre out further (off its own back) and start putting fibre from the agg nodes out to street poles where it sees there is a market. This would reduce the installation cost massively for the customer as it would just be a case of running a fibre drop cable from a splitter on the pole to the home.

      That’s my take anyway 🙂

    2. Avatar DTMark says:

      Why do you imagine that BT would pay for those upgrades, when they can preserve the same scarcity model that has always held us back and hold out the begging bowl to tax-payers again?

      That is the dynamic that has held the UK in the dark ages and BDUK’s antics will make this much worse.

      The word “market” keeps popping up in these discussions, monopolies and markets do not work together because the biggest aspect which brings about improvements is competition.

    3. Avatar FibreFred says:


      1) There has to be progression, always has been, dial-up, ISDN, ADSL, ADSL2, FTTC…. as people outgrow the products there needs to be a viable “affordable to the masses” replacement
      2) BT paid for the fibre to the aggregation node out of its own pocket, I think we’ll see another round of self funding when FTTC is close to being insufficient for peoples needs
      3) BT will eventually want rid of copper they won’t be able to until people transition to fibre which will take decades

      BT have not “held out the begging bowl” they’ve ploughed billions into the FTTC rollout and said they wouldn’t do some areas that were not viable, BDUK set itself up (bit rubbish) put out tenders for those areas and BT won.

      BT hasn’t gone begging, if BDUK didn’t exist those areas wouldn’t get done, simple, I don’t recall any begging?

  16. Avatar Ian says:

    I envy those of you with a choice of providers and bandwidth in excess of 2M/256k on ye olde ADSL2. The commercial decisions of OpenReach regarding enabling cabinets for FTTC means that half my postcode can order FTTC, the other half of us cannot.

    So assuming we’re not moving house to get a reasonable broadband service and there is “no chance” of another provider installing local infrastructure this FTTPoD offering is the only game in town.

    As a customer in this position I see few options: Remain as-is, order a service at 330/30 or hold out for a service with lower running costs (110/10 or 220/20).

    1. Avatar gadget says:

      If the second cabinet serving your postcode is not considered viable by Openreach then it should be on your council’s radar to be funded under BDUK or similar invervention – I’d suggest that is the most likely answer to your problem – only if you are in the very last 10% or so would you truly end up having to look for some alternative solution

  17. Avatar billybob says:

    Can someone shed any info on wheather the FTTPoD would be available even if the exchange isnt FTTC enabled yet ??

    1. Avatar billybob says:

      scrap that question .. Apperantly this list is the only exchanges taking part so far..

      High Wycombe
      Bristol South
      Edinburgh Waverley
      St Agnes
      Manchester Central
      Cardiff Stadium

      I want fttp in my house like yesterday, in its outdated town that wont recieve fttc till late next year & have no access to Vermin media either..

    2. Mark Jackson Mark Jackson says:

      The exchange and street cabinet must both generally support FTTC for an FTTPoD order to be carried forward. It will take about a year to make FTTPoD available across the FTTC footprint.

  18. Avatar Jed says:

    So I ordered this service 16th May (was on Virgin at 100/10, turned very cr@ppy slow).

    £35/month for 160/20 which was shown on BT site-checker, £0 install cost (200m away from Fibre Node, 50m from Aggregation node). Engineer fitted splice point on wall 20th May (blown fibre from Fibre node, via Agg’ node to home wall). He said he would install it as a 330MB/30MB service, as they don’t do 160MB/20MB for this ‘type of thing’

    No complaints, 30th May, roll on 🙂

    Baffled as to whether this is FTTP/FoD or pure FTTP, but hey who cares, it was free! And I save £11/month compared to Virgin

  19. Avatar Megan says:

    Wow! This blog looks exactly like my old one! It’s on a entirely different subject but it has pretty much the same layout and design. Outstanding choice of colors!

  20. Avatar sue dean says:

    Haven’t followed all comments so they may have been mentioned. Take a look at Gigaclear. Fastest broadband provider in the UK at 1000Mbps. They install 100% fibre direct to the premises from the nearest node, in remote rural areas. They leave a connection point at every property regardless of signup to their service. Charges are £100 installation fee & approx £85 connection from the property boundary to the home/business if the distance is no more than 25m, + approx £2.50/m if beyond that. Monthly charges for unlimited broadband are £37 but is you add in their VOIP partner at £5.99 a month the BT line rental can be ditched & the whole product comes in at less than BT’s Infinity product.

    Look on Youtube for Gigaclear speed check 4 TV/film screens running simultaneously – they have to use a speed check in Amsterdam as UK highest check only goes to 300Mbps.

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