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UPDATE Citizens Advice Scolds BT Openreach for Slow Installs and Repairs

Sunday, December 4th, 2016 (12:48 pm) - Score 5,021

The Citizens Advice agency has described the broadband market’s current compensation system as being “deeply unfair” after it revealed that Openreach (BT) had failed to complete over 20% of repairs (364,000) and 6% (281,000) of installations on time between April to September 2016.

Overall Openreach is said to have installed approximately 4.46 million new connections and made 1.78 million repairs to broadband and landline connections during the 6 month period. However the CA claims that each week an average of 14,000 consumers and small businesses “waited longer than they should for broadband and phone line repairs“, while a further 11,000 experienced late installations.

The CA also claimed that an analysis of 1,000 broadband problems reported to the agency revealed how people are repeatedly having to “negotiate with providers to get engineers out or receive any kind of financial compensation“.

On top of that the CA believes that ISPs “are typically paid compensation” by Openreach for each day that there is a delay fixing a landline fault or setting up a new service, while customers who have been inconvenienced “can get nothing to make up for their losses.”

Gillian Guy, CEO of Citizens Advice, said:

“It is deeply unfair that broadband suppliers are automatically compensated but customers have to fight for every penny.

Companies are paid every time a broadband or landline repair or installation is delayed. But customers who bear the brunt of these problems have to fight for compensation from their broadband company – and may not get any.

When installations or repairs are delayed this can leave broadband customers without an internet connection for days. On top of the hassle and frustration of trying to rearrange the call-out, not having a working broadband connection can make it harder for people to complete important everyday tasks like applying for jobs, shopping online, and even running their business.

The Digital Economy Bill gives MPs the opportunity to make sure broadband customers hit by delays get compensation automatically instead of having to negotiate and fight for it. It is important that clear standards are set for this compensation so people know exactly when they are eligible and how much they can claim.”

Earlier this year the Director of Openreach, Kim Mears, admitted that their “biggest failing” was missing 1,000 appointments every week (here): “When we get it [installs etc.] wrong, we repeat the problem by missing appointments. We repeat the problem due to systems, process, ways of working – it could be a multitude of issues,” said Mears. The CEO of BT Group, Gavin Patterson, similarly chimed in to add, “We’ve got to be faster in repairing service.Sky Broadband has raised similar concerns in the past (here).

However it’s worth pointing out that the situation for ISPs isn’t quite as straightforward as the CA suggests. Providers sometimes complain that they can be forced to foot the bill for Openreach to find and repair faults in its own network (e.g. disputes over SFI charges / missing broadband faults due to inadequate testing etc.).

On top of that the level of compensation that an ISP receives isn’t always quite so clear cut. Openreach does compensate reasonably well for phone line (PSTN) faults, but getting compensation for broadband is a bit more complicated and tends to reflect a much smaller amount. This isn’t always an issue for Openreach either, sometimes it’s more of a matter for BTWholesale and TalkTalk Wholesale etc. (e.g. Openreach doesn’t sell ADSL).

Similarly if a problem on OR’s network causes an ISP’s customers to become angry and leave or complain (e.g. loss of service due to a fault), then the ISP takes the hit and possibly hundreds of pounds in ADR complaint handler fees, while Openreach as the supplier avoids this.

Lest we not forget those times where people can be hit by a charge because the engineer claimed the person wasn’t home for their visit, when in fact they were present and the engineer either vanished before the home owner could get to the door or the home owner simply never heard or saw anybody (this has happened to me too), despite waiting inside all day.

In fairness if you want a better level of service then the solution is usually to pay for a business connection and better Service Level Agreement (SLA), which might at least return some compensation for any loss of service and could also result in the fault being fixed more quickly (depending upon the cause and availability of local engineers etc.).

Meanwhile Ofcom’s changes are forcing Openreach to improve and in July the operator revealed that their engineers had fixed 84% of faults within just 2 working days, which compares to 67% when reporting began two years ago (here). Openreach also said that 93% of new lines are installed on time and they’re on track to halve missed appointments this year.

Clive Selley, CEO of Openreach, said (July 2016):

“Improving the service that we provide to customers, is my number one priority. These latest figures show we’re making real progress. Everyone at Openreach recognises there’s more to do, but these are encouraging signs that our investments and focus are having a positive effect.

We’re recruiting 1,000 engineers this year, and by simplifying the way we work and giving our people the training and tools they need, we will achieve even better outcomes. I’m particularly pleased that we’ve managed to repair faults faster than this time last year, despite the wettest June on record.”

Ofcom are now proposing further improvements as part of their Strategic Review proposals (here), one of which includes a new “automatic compensation” requirement for when consumers suffer a fault that causes a “loss or reduction of service” (details); the latter is being introduced as part of the Government’s Digital Economy Bill 2017.

The Citizens Advice agency also wants Ofcom to set clear standards on when consumers would be entitled to compensation because of delays and how much they would get. The group suggests that this could work in a similar way to the £75 compensation people receive from their energy company for delays when their electricity is not up and running again 12 hours after a power cut.

However broadband is a much more dynamic and complicated service, where identifying the cause of a problem can be very challenging. For example, it may not be the ISPs fault, such as in the case of a faulty laptop or bad home wifi setup.

Ofcom has indicated that they may also need to review the compensation arrangements between wholesale and retail providers, although others argue that this is more of a private contractual matter for the ISPs and their suppliers to resolve. On the other hand some ISPs feel as if Openreach is so big that they would have little prospect of negotiating a reasonable change (here).

One other risk from such a system is that we could all end up paying higher prices for our broadband so that ISPs are able to cover the costs of offering automatic compensation, particularly if they’ll struggle to recoup the money from their suppliers. Describing this as a complicated problem would be an understatement.

We did seek a comment from Openreach earlier this morning, but the operator has not responded to our hails. Ofcom’s original intention, assuming it still stands, is to post the outcome of their consultation before the end of this year.

UPDATE 5th Dec 2016

A spokesperson for BT Consumer / Retail has informed us that the ISP will “proactively introduce automatic compensation in 2017.” On top of that Openreach has also offered up a statement.

An Openreach spokesperson told ISPreview.co.uk:

“Openreach has been making a lot of progress with customer service over the past year. We’ve been exceeding the targets set by Ofcom and we’re on track to halve the number of missed appointments we’re responsible for to 2.5%.

We offer service providers a range of repair levels that vary from six hours to three days, allowing them to decide the best options to offer their customers.

Around 80% of our repairs are carried out within two days, but if we miss an appointment or fail to fix a fault within the agreed timeframes, then we pay compensation to our service provider customers automatically.

We are sorry where people have suffered or are still suffering service problems. Openreach does get things right the vast majority of the time – and managing more than 20 million broadband connections is not a simple task – but improving service is our number one priority.”

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By Mark Jackson
Mark is a professional technology writer, IT consultant and computer engineer from Dorset (England), he also founded ISPreview in 1999 and enjoys analysing the latest telecoms and broadband developments. Find me on Twitter, , Facebook and Linkedin.
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46 Responses
  1. Wise Old Owl says:

    Dear CA – ISP’s don’t receive auto compensation for poor engineering/failed repair performance from Openreach otherwise all they’d ever do is compensate.

    ISP’s often end up footing the bill to appease a customer with faults in order to retain them and this is through no fault of it’s or indeed the customers fault. Of course BTO will argue that it also has similar issues where a fault ends up being due to misdiagnosis from within the ISP/EU side, and that’s fair as it also happens.

    This is why auto compensation is extremely difficult and BTO giving it in 2017 worries me as it might end up cheaper for them to auto compensate than throwing the technical resource, fully trained and capable of first time fixing that is actually needed.

    If auto compensation is given out it might be seen/used as a buffer for the poor performance areas seen daily and that have been ongoing for years.

    Don’t get me wrong, there are improvements and I’m sure more will come but for now I don’t see how auto compensation is going to help anyone least of all the consumer.

    1. Evan Crissall says:

      Under the GPO, the compensation for failed engineer shows, and failed repairs was generous :- one month free line rental for every day the fault continued. With compensation starting first working day after fault reported. In today’s money, it was worth about £130 a week.

      Post-privatsation, BT was soon gnawing away at those payouts to boost group profits. While neglecting basic maintenance, with an ever-dwindling engineering workforce.

      And here we are today with compensation for end-users negligible; unrepaired faults at an all-time high; and a corroding copper network the laughing stock of the world.

      What took the Consumers’ Association so long to recognise that? And what is Ofcom’s response now?

    2. New_Londoner says:

      @Evan
      You’ve missed a key point here: Openreach pays compensation to its customers automatically, however many of them don’t do likewise with their customers. In fact, many seem to hide behind Opnreach, often blaming it for their mistakes whilst simultaneously lobbying Ofcom to prevent Openreach communicating directly with their customers (presumably to ensure that they don’t get found out).

      Anyway, the key point here is that if you think compensation should be paid automatically to consumers you need to direct your suggestion to the communication providers and not Openreach as they are the ones that have contracts with the consumers. I suggest you start your lobbying first with TalkTalk given your close contact with that organisation. 🙂

    3. Vince says:

      @New_Londoner

      If you’d seen the amount Openreach give to providers, you’d also know that the amount given is tiny – and it’s barely worth the effort involved.

      Many providers give more effective goodwill credit to customers than Openreach give contractually – but there is an expectation that if your broadband is down for a week you should get more back than you paid in a month. That’s not realistic but consumers expectations are higher.

      The problem gets worse with business as they try to quote various (losses that are pretty much never quantifiable) and suddenly decide they think they’re entitled to those too.

    4. AndyH says:

      “If you’d seen the amount Openreach give to providers, you’d also know that the amount given is tiny – and it’s barely worth the effort involved.”

      Sorry, but how do you know this?

    5. New_Londoner says:

      @Vince
      I’m sure you’re right, presumably the amount offered by Openreach to providers is proportionate to the money paid for the service? Which for broadband isn’t a great deal.

      Perhaps service providers generally need to be more upfront with businesses about the strengths and weaknesses of their different products? Those that want and need service level guarantees will be more suited to an Ethernet service, those that don’t can use broadband but should be clear about the lower level of resilience, compensation etc.

    6. AndyH says:

      For a missed appointment (where an OR engineer doesn’t turn up), the CP gets £56 (applies to both WLR and FTTx).

      For faults, the CP gets 1 month’s line rental for each day the fault is not repaired beyond the SLA (applies to both WLR and FTTx).

      I wouldn’t say the amounts CPs get are minimal – what’s passed back to customer’s is a different story….

    7. Evan Crissall says:

      It’s hard to believe Openreach only fails to show in one in ten appointments. That’s not our experience. ‘No shows’ from the linesmen in every one of the last three appointments.

      So who’s keeping tally of all these “no shows”? Perhaps Ofcom only counts the ‘no shows’ where compensation is claimed and agreed.

      Though most people even don’t realise they can claim for a ‘no show”. And since the compensation so pitiful – just 30p a day – it’s only worth claiming on a point of principle.

      Which is perhaps how Ofcom can claim Openreach misses just one-in-ten appointments.

      Our toothless regulator airbrushing the actualité once again?

    8. AndyH says:

      Wow, so OR engineers don’t show up for you and when they do, they are untrained and don’t have a clue what they are doing…

  2. Optimist says:

    Perhaps more ISPs should consider alternatives to BTOR, so if there’s any fault the buck stops with them? They could either install their own fibre or set up a wireless network.

    1. Vince says:

      Of course you know that’s not going to happen. To start from scratch and provide true national coverage would be prohibitively expensive. It won’t happen.

      There are pockets of availability of alternatives and most companies do look to use them where you can, but sadly the lack of choice is an issue and as long as that remains the case which I suspect it will, BTOR will have no incentive to be more efficient.

      When you’ve got a situation where the computer picks jobs, sends engineers miles out of the way in circles, doesn’t allocate nearest, won’t allocate 2 jobs at same premises which one engineer is skilled to do to that same person, but allocates 2 jobs on different days, causing wasted time, journeys, fuel, effort and for the customer multiple appointments and hanging around for them it will be terrible and miss targets.

      Engineers know full well how bad it is but they cannot improve the system – and trying to buck it to use common sense is either impossible or results in them getting disciplined.

      As someone who lives with the consequences and costs to our business every day of Openreach incompetence and inefficiency any news that suggests they’re not doing a good job is not news to us – it’s a total shambles.

    2. Optimist says:

      I am fortunate to be able to receive service by cable. My local council uses a fixed-point wireless solution for all its telecoms requirements. Altnets are successfully deployed in rural areas.

      The government could help encourage investment to compete with BTOR by changing the business rates regime on telecoms infrastructure.

  3. Dave says:

    Openreach response is rubbish. I recently had my ADSL broadband cut off and it took my over 6 weeks to get it reconnected. I had to get the problem raised to the highest level with my ISP and that was not easy. I also had get my MP involved before any action was taken.
    And this is not the first time it has happened.
    As far as I am concerned the level of service is far worse than it has ever been.
    Costumers are treated like mushrooms. (kept in the dark and feed bullshit)
    I dont want compensation I just want the service fixed.

    1. GNewton says:

      Your experience with BT is not uncommon, many users have shared similar experiences on e.g. https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/bt.com

      The issues are a combination of problems with Openreach (e.g. poor engineering skills, failed appointments etc) and of problems with BTs customer service. A 20% failure rate of line repairs by Openreach shows how catastrophic the conditions currently are, and no improved compensation scheme is able to significantly reduce the issues.

      I am sure some of this forum’s BT fans will soon chip in with their usual praise of BT. But this won’t help the poor end customers who are caught up in these issues. Ofcom is already setting much stricter targets for accomplishing repair and installs, but more is needed. A full structural separation of Openreach from BT is still an option. Replacing copper with fibre should be given priority, old copper network by its nature always tend to cause higher maintenance levels.

    2. TheFacts says:

      How will separation help?

    3. GNewton says:

      @TheFacts: This question has been discussed many times over on ISPReview.

      What is your proposal to improve BTs issues with slow installs and repairs? Other than your totally out-of-this-world notion of a nationwide government funded fibre network?

    4. TheFacts says:

      I have never said a govt. funded scheme is a good idea, just an option for discussion. Now tell us exactly how full separation will help.

    5. GNewton says:

      @TheFacts: Please make up your mind first! Your suggested options are totally out of touch with reality!

      What is your suggestion for resolving BTs issues with repair and install issues? Or are you just here to argue again?

    6. AndyH says:

      @ Gnewton – Perhaps come up with your own proposals rather than continually asking others?

      Ofcom set key performance levels for new voice/broadband line installs and fault repair (https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/latest/media/media-releases/2014/famr-statement). Openreach achieve and exceed those performance targets, which then begs the question are those targets set high enough?

      Obviously there will be situations (weather being the largest one), beyond the control of any telecoms provider, that will lead to longer install or fault repair timescales.

    7. GNewton says:

      @AndyH: I agree with here. Ofcom’s target set for BT need to be stricter, and as far a I know it is in the process of doing so.

      As regards proposals on improving this situation: TheFacts is the one who, rather than doing some research, or even looking up Ofcom’s reviews, keeps posting the same lame questions here on this forum. I have yet to see any constructive contributions coming from him.

      Anyway, a good starting point is this document:
      https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0022/76243/strengthening-openreachs-strategic-and-operational-independence.pdf

      It is interesting to note that some ISPs already manage to offer a much better customer experience, like e.g. AAISP, despite the dire situation of Openreach. A separated Openreach will most likely contribute to an improvement in the cooperation and communication between telecoms/ISPs and Openreach, with the latter less inclined to show favouritism toward BT-owned customers. Along with an improved investment in better networks you can then expect lesser repair or maintenance issues in the long term.

    8. New_Londoner says:

      @Dave
      Your problem is with your ISP, bearing in mind that is the company you pay for your service. It decides to provide it, for example can opt to pay Openreach for a faster response time to fix faults etc. Some do, others save their money and moan loudly instead (TalkTalk etc).

    9. TheFacts says:

      @GN – any proof of favouritsm? Be interesting to know how the system manages it.

    10. AndyH says:

      AAISP are a niche provider. They have an extremely well regarded support team, who have the knowledge and time to spend resolving end user issues. I would say that AAISP spend far more time dealing with BT Wholesale rather than OR – so nothing will change in that respect with an independent OR. This is the same case for the majority of ISPs.

      I would be interested to know what you specifically mean by favouritism. I’ve not seen any ISP raise this to OFCOM and if there was evidence of it, you would be reading about it on sites like this.

    11. GNewton says:

      @AndyH: Please take a look at Ofcom’s review at https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-1/strengthening-openreachs-independence where Ofcom expresses its concern that BT has the incentive and ability to favour its own retail business when making strategic decisions about new network investments by Openreach.

      About AAISP: So who exactly is responsible for the common failed engineer visits, or incomplete jobs, if not Openreach? How does AAISP manage this situation better than other ISPs?

    12. AndyH says:

      @ GNewton – It says BT has the ability and incentive regarding network investment, it doesn’t state that it is doing it nor that there is any evidence that BT network investment has favoured BT’s retail businesses. I would like to know what you think their favouritism might be?

      As for AAISP, I haven’t seem them complaining so much about the missed appointments – more the processes and procedures when an appointment is missed or failed to be completed that agitates them. Adrian Kennard is outspoken, and rightfully so, but I’ve not seen him writing post after post (which he would do) a large percentage of failed appointments for his customers.

      Simple question for you: Does Adrian Kennard have a bigger gripe with BT Wholesale or Openreach? If the former, how does an independent Openreach changed this?

    13. GNewton says:

      @AndyH: BT could be facing a bill running into the millions of pounds after Ofcom provisionally found that the telecoms giant have been overcharging rivals for engineering and repair work. This includes Sky and TalkTalk. See e.g. http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/enforcement/competition-bulletins/open-cases/all-open-cases/cw_01185/Provisional_Conclusions.pdf

    14. AndyH says:

      And the relevance of that to here is what?

      There is no favouritism shown to BT Retail as they have to pay the same SFI2/TRC rates. Question was whether the charges were regulated or not.

    15. AndyH says:

      By the way – interesting how you avoid the simple asked questions on here…

    16. AndyH says:

      Thanks for answering my questions.

  4. Wise Old Owl says:

    Openreach are correct – managing 20 million circuits is no mean feat but equally allowing poor performance in the field, repeated faults by engineers not able to do the job right first time and accountability for that – real accountability, would work wonders in reducing that 20% of failures.

    They have been a law unto themselves for far too long and no amount of spin will change that.

    Stop sending out multiple engineers on faults that they don’t have the skills to fix would be a start. It’s as bad as the ISP’s tech’s asking you to test from the master socket 300 times before they’ll raise an engineer to come out and only then if the EU stumps up a commitment to pay a surety that if the engineer cant find a fault they’ll stump up £150 for the privilege.

  5. AndyH says:

    It would be interesting to know if the CA numbers include or exclude MBORCs.

  6. Foostyknewaboutbigjock says:

    Give the engineers a decent wage and double at the weekends they will be happy as larry and everyone will have a faulty fixed quickly instead of a 2-3 day fix

    1. DTMark says:

      Why would there be an extra payment for working at weekends; is there some expectation that telecoms are unnecessary at weekends?

      To put this in context banks started opening on Saturdays in the early 2000s.

      I have suspected for some time that BT have a somewhat partially militant workforce of the kind that did its best to cripple British industry in the 1970s. Right lads, down tools, cup of tea.. like something out of “Carry on at Your Convenience”.

      I don’t know what a BT telecoms engineer earns but a quick Google suggests it’s between around 27k and 32k. Which seems pretty reasonable to me.

    2. Foostyknewaboutbigjock says:

      If you research properly its only 22k a year hardly a decent pay £11 an hour

    3. Evan Crissall says:

      Whether £32k or £22k, it’s still a lot, considering the low skill level. The linesmen we’ve encountered in recent years haven’t had a clue. Not even grounded in the basics. No diagnostic training; incapable of fault-shooting the most common problems; unable to use simple test equipment. Those rising in competence are probably self-taught.

    4. AndyH says:

      @ Evan Crissall – So obviously every BT engineer is completely useless, has no training, doesn’t know what he’s doing and should be paid minimum wage. Anything else to add to this?!

    5. GNewton says:

      @AndyH: “So obviously every BT engineer is completely useless”

      Nobody said that. However, a 20% fail rate of line repairs completions clearly is unacceptable.

    6. AndyH says:

      And the reason behind the 20% is of any relevance?

    7. GNewton says:

      @AndyH: Yes, it is relevant to customers who needed their lines repaired.

      As regards Evan Crissall’s experience with BT engineers: As I said no every BT engineer has poor skills, however, some do, I know from personal experiences. One the last ones I had was when an engineer couldn’t even do a proper wall mount of a master socket, or was struggling to run a wire down a wall to an end premise. And another one was so confused when a customer had a line installed without a voice-telephony component. So yes, there is room for improvements, and as far as I am aware Ofcom has set stricter targets for this, for good reasons.

    8. AndyH says:

      So of those 20% of delayed repairs – what percentage of them were delayed by external factors beyond Openreach’s control (weather/damage by third parties/cable theft)? What % is an acceptable level for you (Ofcom clearly don’t set the bar high enough in your view)?

      Incidents like this http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2016/10/network-rail-breaks-broadband-uxbridge-west-drayton.html occur every single month and explain why you cannot have 100% of repairs on time. The weather is another reason why the October-April period always sees an increase in fault repair times.

    9. GNewton says:

      @AndyH: According to Ofcom, poor weather conditions that prevent engineers meeting the service standard will be taken into account under some circumstances. It reckons that the targets allow that up to three per cent of repairs and 1 per cent of installations in a typical year might be delayed due to such factors.

      Please notice that the 20% failure rate given by the CA is for the summer period between April to September 2016.

    10. Data Analysis says:

      “Please notice that the 20% failure rate given by the CA is for the summer period between April to September 2016.”

      Ah so thats what happened rather than fix the issue i had this summer just gone the lazy buggers went to the beach.

      A bit like rail staff who seem to only like to strike in the summer.

  7. fastman says:

    DT Mark — Really

    I have suspected for some time that BT have a somewhat partially militant workforce of the kind that did its best to cripple British industry in the 1970s. Right lads, down tools, cup of tea.. like something out of “Carry on at Your Convenience”.

  8. Wise Old Owl says:

    Carry on at ‘their’ convenience is the way its always been.
    It’s certainly never at anyone else’s convenience.

  9. Litesp33d says:

    “Meanwhile Ofcom’s changes are forcing Openreach to improve and in July the operator revealed that their engineers had fixed 84% of faults within just 2 working days”

    I have to say I am very skeptical of BT’s claim here. Firstly 84% is not exactly that brilliant given that a fault can be as simple as a loose wire and how long are the other 16% taking. Moreover such is the system that they operate that if an engineer reports a fault fixed, even if it isn’t, and you call in again to report it for a second or third time each one is logged as a new fault. It would be interesting to see how many ‘fixed’ faults have an early fail. Or to put it another way how many faults are repeat faults.

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