TalkTalk Trial Free Automatic UK Upgrades to FTTP Broadband UPDATE
Budget conscious UK ISP TalkTalk appears to have begun a new programme trial, which is giving “some” existing customers a free automatic upgrade to full fibre broadband – provided they don’t already have such a package and are covered by the new Fibre-to-the-Premises (FTTP) network.
At present TalkTalk’s platform supports several full fibre networks from CityFibre, Openreach and Freedom Fibre. However, at the time of writing, it remains unclear whether the ISP is offering this same opportunity to customers covered by any of those or only certain networks. So far, we’ve only seen this in Openreach based FTTP areas.
Openreach are known to be offering discounts as incentives to help boost the take-up of FTTP, which makes promotions like this one seem sensible. In addition, the ongoing effort to move away from old analogue phone services by December 2025 (switching to IP based phone – VoIP/SIP), and to eventually withdraw copper based lines entirely, is another reason why this sort of upgrade is inevitable.
So far as we can tell, the letters have only been sent to customers on Openreach’s hybrid Fibre-to-the-Cabinet (FTTC / VDSL2) lines. But we’d be surprised if they weren’t also offering the same opportunity to people on the oldest ADSL (ADSL2+) based broadband packages – we simply haven’t been able to confirm this yet.
In the letter (see below – credits to George for sending us this), TalkTalk says: “We’re prioritising your upgrade. Your upgrade is free of charge and your existing contract, telephone number and extra services won’t change.” However, as FTTP installs require an Optical Network Terminal (ONT) and cable to be installed inside your home, then the upgrade will also require an engineer visit. But we’ll come back to that.
Copy of TalkTalk’s Full Fibre Upgrade Letter
In other words, TalkTalk appears to be swapping their FTTC packages for FTTP packages on like-for-like tiers, although we assume this will also mean needing to upgrade those with analogue phone services to their new IP based Digital Voice service. But TT’s Digital Voice product is still listed as a trial service (here) and IP based voice solutions do come with some caveats (here), which are not mentioned above.
However, and this might come as a surprise to some of our readers, but not all of TalkTalk’s customers have reacted positively to the news. Some on social media are complaining about the disruptive need for an engineer visit, while others are happy with their existing service and question whether it will improve their speeds (it should – FTTP vastly superior to FTTC and does not suffer from copper line signal degradation).
In response, one of TalkTalk’s agents said: “I’m sorry to hear that you don’t want to go ahead with the free future fibre upgrade. If there’s no-one in when the engineer arrives then they can’t go ahead with the installation and if you are in then you’re under no obligation to go ahead with the installation.”
Nevertheless, some customers are so infuriated with the imposition of being offered better broadband for free that they’ve even threatened to leave. “I have the letter. I do not want full fibre, I will leave TalkTalk if I have to have full fibre,” said a customer. Meanwhile, others have complained that even when they cancel the engineer visit, TalkTalk continues to pester them with text messages and upgrade letters.
Personally, we’d jump at this sort of chance, and it’ll need to happen eventually, but everybody is different and TalkTalk would have perhaps been wiser to take a softer approach first (e.g. initially offering the free upgrade as an option, before going down the route of automatically imposing it). The situation is perhaps a precursor for how people will react when such changes have to be enforced in the future.
On top of that, there’s also the issue of whether Openreach will be able to keep up with large-scale upgrade programmes. We aren’t just thinking about engineering resources here (ISPs can sometimes take on some of that), but also issues of capacity in the street (e.g. pole loading capacity) – this may cause delays if too many ports are demanded in a short space of time.
We contacted TalkTalk about the letters yesterday to seek clarification on a few points and were told that the response, if it comes, would probably follow sometime today – we will update again once they reply.
UPDATE 4:11pm
We’ve had a response from TalkTalk, which reveals that this programme is currently part of a “trial” that is taking place with some customers on all of their networks (Openreach, CityFibre and Freedom Fibre). The trial is focused on understanding “how different messaging affects take up” of the offer. “We’re trialling this across all our providers but have no intention to roll it out to all customers,” said the operator (although such migrations are inevitable with the retirement of copper lines).
In terms of the Digital Voice product, TalkTalk said they identify those who have analogue dependent equipment, in-home wiring or need help with installation during this process and will not proceed with an order for those customers. Customers must also confirm that they have an alternative means of contacting the emergency services in the event of a power cut.
Mark is a professional technology writer, IT consultant and computer engineer from Dorset (England), he also founded ISPreview in 1999 and enjoys analysing the latest telecoms and broadband developments. Find me on X (Twitter), Mastodon, Facebook and Linkedin.
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My brother was upgraded earlier this year, only thing is they hadn’t sent him out the new FTTP router before the engineer came to install the ONT, so the FTTC was still connected until that turned up. My brother still has the telephone line connected supplying his phone service. Surely Talktalk have to be losing money supplying him with effectively two lines. They have not tried to give or sell him digital voice.
People who refuse free upgrades should have their service stopped! Idiots.
Upgraded to fibre150 and asked Talktalk I wanted my landline kept, I informed them 3 times but they disconnected it. Asked for VOIP informed that it was unavailable. Had an openreach engineer out to install new copper line, he told me he could not install copper line next to fibre. Now today I have another engineer visit to see if he can sort it. Informed bt talktalk that I can have VOIP after them telling me I couldn’t. Informed them that if they cannot sort it I will be looking else where.
You should go elsewhere for your VOIP anyway. I am with Sipgate Basic and would never-ever go back to VOIP offered by a regular ISP. I ported my number over for £30. It took 10 days and now its pay as you go for my landline and calls are incredibly cheap. I worked it out that the £10 I paid onto it will take around 2-3 years to use up.
Mark, Do you know if the person who provided you with a copy of their letter lives in a CityFibre, Freedom Fibre area or is only served by Openreach?
Openreach.
Not surprised at all by the reaction of those that don’t want to take the upgrade. I keep an eye on my local altnet’s social media, and the “Why do we have to have any disruption? My internet service is already good enough!” commenters are quite a vocal bunch.
It’s disheartening, but for your average facebook scrolling online shopping user, what they’ve got is “good enough”.
Also blaming the ISPs or even Openreach for not explaining this better… What stops them from launching an educational campaign about full fibre? Why is it better? Reliability, speeds, having multiple users at home, upload speeds and all the implications for regular users… Why are they so afraid to explain why it is better than copper? Because it would piss off the existing copper users? Admitting that they false advertised copper in the past? Instead they just make the same claims about speeds and reliability without any justification… if people hear Openreach they just associate it with slow and unreliable… The house value aspect is also quite a good argument for those who don’t use the internet much
I once went around my village and tried to convince people that FTTP was better – most were on 20/6 so 900/115 was a wet dream I thought – BT put the poles and stuff in – out of 450 people only 5 apparently have signed up!
and the prices are the same as FTTC! 5!!
I once went around my village and tried to convince people that FTTP was better – most were on 20/6 so 900/115 was a wet dream I thought – BT put the poles and stuff in – out of 450 people only 5 apparently have signed up!
and the prices are the same as FTTC! 5!!
They’ve been doing it since Christmas with cityfibre.
It’s not all about speed! I wish people would realise that it’s more about reliability.
You say it is not all about speed, but reliability, ok, I give you that, but what if the person have had FTTC for years and have had no problems? I have had Plusnet FTTC now for over 7 years, I did have a problem about 3 years ago or so, even open reach could not find what the problem was, so they told me to keep my old Huawei modem in place as that was the only thing that synced, even open reach own equipment would not sync in the house. plusnet sent me a Zyxel router to try and sort it out, but that failed. It is working now and have been for a couple of years, so I presume they changed something at the cabinet. But even with that problem, with the huawei modem on the service have not skipped a beat. Granted plusnet is the only provider I have used on FTTC, but i am happy with what I have, it does the job.
Even so, there is no problem with Talk Talk asking people if they want to change to FTTP as long as it doesn’t cost them any more, but they should do it differently, the way they are doing it is like when the energy companies try to get people to have a smart meter.
I know this would start to happen as soon as open reach FTTP footprint got larger. It has happened with pushing people from ADSL to FTTC.
I would not touch Talk Talk with a barge pole to be honest, and this is just typical of Talk Talk, awful provider. But how long will it be before other providers start doing the same thing? I know of one person who had the same sort of email from Vodafone.
Open reach I think is starting to do FTTP here as well as zzoomm, but I am fine with what I have got, if open reach get their FTTP running within 12 months, I wonder if plusnet will try to push me to it towards the end of my contract, just to make sure I don’t jump over to zzoomm, not that I have any plans to do that.
‘I wonder if plusnet will try to push me to it towards the end of my contract’
Probably. Their wholesale provider will be pushing them.
@An Engineer, We will wait and see. They can ask, I have no problem with them asking, the same with my energy company asking me about smart meters, but once I say no, that should be it.
Talk Talk sounds like they are acting like a child who can’t get their own way.
The more I hear about the problems people are having with fibre installs, the more I am put off by it.
“what if the person have had FTTC for years and have had no problems?”
In case you’re not aware, one day Openreach will switch off copper nearly everywhere and migrate everyone to full fibre. The end user will have no choice in the matter, even if they’ve had a 100% fault free FTTC service for 200 years.
“the way they are doing it is like when the energy companies try to get people to have a smart meter.”
Contrary to what you may have read in the Daily Mail, energy companies first send letters in the post asking you to make an appointment to arrange a smart meter install. If you refuse then they will simply put you on a different (usually more expensive tariff) where its not compulsory to have a smart meter fitted. I’ve never heard of any cases where smart meter installers have turned up out of the blue, though I’m sure you’ll correct me.
@Chicken Legs, I do know that at some point openreach will turn off copper, but that is not happening yet and until fibre is more widespread I don’t think it is going to happen in most places for a while. At this time, most people have a choice, and they should not be pushed.
I am one of these people that don’t like being pushed and the more they push, the more I resist, as they have found out at work trying to get me to use Teams.
I know of someone on ADSL and they are happy on ADSL, if is cheaper than FTTC and they get a pretty good speed since they are only a couple of roads away from the exchange, but still get emails and phone calls asking them to change to FTTC, they even told the provider not to contact them, but they still do.
Energy companies have been sending letters to people saying we have made an appointment to change your meters to smart meters, we will be there at this date and this time. I have seen one from Npower. They are putting it onto the customer to cancel the appointment they did not make and if they don’t cancel they try to charge the customer for a missed appointment. When did this country stop being consumer friendly and companies seems to do what they want? We, the consumer, pay for a service or product, so we are the ones that keep them in business. I am fed up with going into shops and them trying to push me into using self scans or those scan and shop handsets, and I work in retail. Annoy me too much and i will go somewhere else that don’t push these things, well I d, I mainly shop in aldis, Lidles and food warehouse these days.
@Ad47uk
So how about crosstalk? The weather? Copper is a terrible system to use over long distances. You say you haven’t had any problems, but you will never know when a car will take out your street cabinet, lightning will take out a line card, the fact that it simply gets slower over the summer due to the heat expanding the cables, as more and more customers take on broadband it gets slower… Copper is terrible for this.
I’ve had FTTC since 2012, had 80Mb when it started but I am 600 metres away from my cabinet – inevitably the speed has dropped to 60Mb now. I think in all the years I’ve had it, I’ve had to call my ISP twice. Once was due to an internal wiring issue I had (I’ve been a Network Engineer for over 10 years so I am a tinkerer), and lightning killed a line card. So yes following your logic I should stick with VDSL.
Fibre is the future, like it or not, and we should all be pushing for it to our houses, not stick with antiquated copper.
I have had FTTC since 2015 via Plusnet and apart from the problem I said about above, they have been pretty good. Plusnet did a fair bit to get my broadband running correctly, sadly the problem as I did say was an openreach one, I still really don’t know what the problem was or how it eventually was sorted or when to be honest. I just kept using the Huawei modem.
I get 36Mb/s more or less and I have had no problem as far as I know with cross talk, I have had slow downs, but that will happen and have happened with FTTP. Only have to look at Virgin media network and see the amount of people complaining about that and also to some extent the new Zzoomm network being built here, some people are not getting the speed they are paying for. For the most part, speed have been fine. i don’t think the weather have affected my broadband, but there is no way of really knowing that.
a car taking out my cabinet, Yep, I suppose that could happen, I have seen a cabinet where something have hit it as the cover was a bit crooked. The cabinet I am connected to is on triangle island at a junction, if a car came up the one way too fast they could hit the cabinets, if they come the other way they would hit a large tree.
But zzoomm have cabinets, there is one on the cycle path on the way to work, it is close to a large cider factory where large lorries enter, and they get pretty close to it when they turn, also Aldi is on the other side of the cycle path and cars/lorries have to cross the cycle path to get to Aldi, one of them could knock out the cabinet. openreach use poles, more chance of them getting damaged by a car. You must be closer than 600 metres from the cabinet to get that speed, Along the road depending on which way the cable go from my place to the cabinet I am between 500-700 metres away from the cabinet and I get around 36Mb/s.
I am not telling you to stick with anything, you can do what you want, I am saying that people should not be pushed, forced or blackmailed to change if they don’t want to, seems to be a thing with this country these days and the scare tactics, government is great at that.
If you want to go to Fibre then do so, I have not fully decided on what I am doing, I have another 12 months on my contract with Plusnet, so I have plenty of time to make up my mind, to go with zzoomm or not. I still am not sure what open reach is doing up here, it seems stranghe that they are up here the same time as Zzoomm, so are they doing stuff for Zzoomm to use their poles or is openreach also going to run their own fibre network up here. I have seen large boxes on telegraph poles and now they have loops of fibre hanging on them as if they are ready to be used. Not in my road, but in a road at the back of my house and a road just off mine.
I would not be surprised if openreach is worried about Zzoomm and thought, we will get there at the same time and cause more confusion, before zzoomm came, open reach had no interest.
If openreach is also bringing their fibre here and even if it happens in less than 12 months, I can’t see myself changing to plusnet fibre, I will wait until the end of my contract and see what I feel like and if I really want to spend the extra money on something I don’t really need.
I am sure fibre is the future, but then lots of things we are told is the future, like scan and shop, but it doesn’t mean I have to use it. My main problem with fibre is the hassle of having it installed and shoddy workmanship I have seen or heard about.
@Ad47UK
On ADSL: most providers won’t sell it to you, I tried TalkTalk, BT, Plusnet, Vodafone and Sky and the only one who would sell it (or at least didn’t hide it away) was plusnet. Unless they are on plusnet they will probably be paying more as they would be out of contact.
On FTTP: if it is available to you via Openreach then I’d have it installed, if it wasn’t then I’d pass on it since you say you don’t need the speed and I can get that having half a million ONTs from all the operators is annoying.
For the bad workmanship, from everyone I’ve heard they haven’t had this problem. Id recommend being firm with the installer if they are taking shortcuts and know what the Openreach basic installation includes but also be realistic, Openreach might not be able to install on the opposite side of your house to the pole/duct for example.
C’mon BT
If talk talk are pre arranging engineer installations without agreement from the end use then no wonder some are getting upset.
Sure, offer a free upgrade at a convenient time, but to send someone out on the off chance seems a bit cavalier
That is like energy companies with smart meters, we have made an appointment to update your meter, YOU WILL BE THERE.
Typical of Talk Talk.
Very much doubt that an Openreach engineer would just turn up at someone’s doorstep willy nilly. Nah, it’s folks just being awkward.
@Sheldon, being awkward? Even if they don’t show up at people’s houses without an appointment, surly it is still up to the consumer if they want FTTP? Maybe they don’t want holes drilled through walls or another box drawing power.
I can’t see them just turning up without some notification, but they could be doing what energy companies are doing with smart meters, sending an email/letter saying they are coming on a day, and it is then up to you to cancel the appointment. Some energy companies even have the cheek to try and charge people for missed appointments, and to be honest, i would not be shocked if Talk Talk don’t do the same sort of thing.
Unfortunately I have heard of openreach turning up at customers homes without the owner being forewarned. The service provider books the job in so neither customer nor openreach are happy
“surly it is still up to the consumer if they want FTTP?”
Not when Openreach decide to switch off copper altogether.
“Unfortunately I have heard of openreach turning up at customers homes without the owner being forewarned. The service provider books the job in so neither customer nor openreach are happy”
The above usually happens because of things like
1. The CP doesn’t have the courtesy to let the customer know that an appointment has been booked on xxx and to get in touch to book an alternative appointment if noy suitable.
2. The CP did notify the customer by email but the email went straight to the spam mailbox of the customer or the customer doesn’t bother checking their emails, in which case the CP can’t be blamed
3. The Openreach Engineer didn’t have the courtesy to call in advance, which (from my own experience) they usually do. Sometimes the evening before but at least a few hours before on the day. Again the CP can’t be blamed in such cases.
Just done a dummy order to see if they will provide Digital Voice for a new customer, order was refused with message “We’re sorry but at the moment our Future Fibre data only packages don’t support a landline.”
Had fibre installed in April after many phone calls still no connection
Had people come to tell us that talk talk sky and a couple of others were due to start doing this in my area, couple of months later heard nothing morw
When my contract with Sky as up in April they put my 78MB FTTC up from £20 to £38 and wouldn’t budge
They said I could have FTTP installed if I wanted for £32/month at 500MB and they’d hoy in free Netflix (which I paid for to Netflix) saving £7 a month and discounted my mini box by £3 a month and added a £36 credit – coming in at £20 a month
Ended up paying exactly as before with better speeds but they simply wouldn’t budge on the FTTC price as my postcode is now FTTP
I sold my old FTTC sky broadband box on ebay for £15 too 🙂
Perhaps they realised there’s no infrastructure to actually do the conversion?
Considering this involves physical alternations to the property and a engineer to visit, I’m not surprised people would be annoyed by this.
When I had OR fit my FTTP the engineer was willing to only put it by the front door, which was a pain as I needed the Ethernet connection upstairs, so I had to fit additional wiring myself. Then later there was a similar issue I had with BT Digital where I was ‘automatically enrolled’ mid-contract so I had to use their naff router for the rest of the contract.
That said, given my experience working retail, I wouldn’t be surprised if allot of these people think copper is more reliable because it’s what they’re used to.
When they installed mine in April they were great. I have a 3 story townhouse and the study is on the middle floor. The installed the ONT and cabling there with no issues. I asked about my internal wiring for the landline and the guy had a cable he put in the phone line socket in the back of the Sky router and plugged the other end into an extension socket and now they all have a dial tone throughout the house
We don’t use the house phone but older relatives call us on it
It solely depends on who you get on the day
How many people realise that FTTC is copper? When FTTC first came here, there were notices on the cabinets saying Fibre is here. No wonder people get confused. The amount of people who tell me they already have fibre because that is what they have read they have got and big notices saying FIBRE is here.
It takes a while to explain that the fibre is from the exchange to the cabinet, and from the cabinet to their house is copper.
so blame open reach for the confusion
Are these letters just being sent out willy nilly, with no check to actually see if you can get Fttp? I’ll laugh if I get one, EO line and half a mile of underground ducting to get here, are town is on the Openreach commercial rollout by 2025, but I don’t expect EO lines to be done anytime soon.
They’re targeted.
Eo lines will be top of the list.
I had phone call from Talk Talk (TT) full upgrade and £12:00 of the monthly bill for 2 years- sold. Openreach (OR), and TT both text giving a fit date by engineer, confirm to agree ok, checked regularly by text to confirm, no problems. Engineer arrived within time slot, ok. Asked where land line was and where I would like fttp box fitted inside. 2hrs outside, 20 mins inside job done, he even set up the router ( eero ( rubbish)) sent it back for the black one with 5 ethernet ports, which the phone base station plugs into the back of. Everything works fine. And now ahead of when you have to change from copper to fibre. Apologies for being so long.
I’m one of the people very annoyed at Talk talk for this. My FTTC is fine for my needs. I’m happy staying with FTTC for the foreseeable. When my contract ends I can leave TalkTalk and go to another FTTC provider. FTTC is a lot cheaper than all FTTP deals and gives me what I need. I like having the cheaper option. If Talk talk upgrades me automatically, I can’t choose FTTC in future and have to pay more for FTTP. It’s basically forcing a price increase when my contract ends.
” FTTC is a lot cheaper than all FTTP deals and gives me what I need. I like having the cheaper option.”
I just looked and unless I’m mistaken the only ‘significant’ difference/potential issue is the phone.
The cheapest package on FTTC is ‘Fibre 35’ which is £24pm and Fibre 65 which is £25pm.
The cheapest package on FTTP is ‘Fibre 65’ which is also £25pm, but this is broadband only
I’ve checked this with both my FTTP property and another which only gets FTTC.
Maybe some people miss the point. I switched from EE now pay £22 a month and have a landline to receive calls on.
FTTC is cheap & has been rock solid, no slowdown or disconnects.
@Mb747
From what I’m seeing, the biggest difference is the loss of the POTS landline and the lost of the absolute cheapest package which with EE and TT about £1-2 in the difference.
Overall, ignoring initial installation, I think it’s the landline which may cause more problems for people.
Although I will add YMMV on the reliability of FTTC, I’ve had corroded connections cause me problems in the past.
Had mine put in this morning & wish I hadn’t bothered engineer turned up by 8.15 & was gone just over an hour I live in a two story flat & I’m the flat above I got my landline/phone & old Router in my hallway but when engineer called said he couldn’t put it there so ended up drilling & putting in my bedroom (which I was not happy about but said something about not being able to bend the fibre cables) he was about to leave without checking it so I said I havnt received a new router Will my old one work, which he assured me it would & left before I had chance to check it & surprise surprise it doesn’t so ended up spending nearly an hour on the phone explaining to the guy on the other end what has happened with him telling me plug in this & plug in that which none of it worked in the end & only cause I pushed agreed to send a new router but have to wait 4-5 working days so got no internet whatsoever till the new one come & ontop of this the engineer made so much mess & when he left I was hoovering & cleaning up & wiping everything down & tried to pull out & move the tv unit with my 32” smart tv on & it ended up falling off onto the floor & shattered the screen so all in all not been a good day & wish I never bloody bothered now as I never had a problem with my internet or speed but talk talk kept emailing & text to say openreach were in the area & updating everyone to the new fibre so cheers for that talk talk no
internet, no router, smashed tv & wasn’t put where I wanted it, & had to clear up all the mess left by the engineer
And it is stories like yours that put me off FTTP by any provider. We have zzoomm putting fibre in around here and I hear the same sort of stories on Facebook zzoomm page. Open reach is coming here as well, but I was thinking of staying with FTTC before, but I am now 90% sure I will stay as I am.
I can’t really see why our existing TT router wouldn’t work (it has a WAN port that can plug into the ONT, I’d have thought). But I’m lucky enough to have already have another router ready, and internal Ethernet to most of the places they are likely to run the fibre into, so fingers crossed this will go better for us!!
Just to point out that not all experiences with telecom engineers will be the same, just because you had a bad experience with one doesn’t mean that all telecom engineers subscribe to the same school of village idiocy.
As a example, EE is my main mobile provider and the majority of the time, they are able to perform a sterling service, the minority of the time they don’t is simply due to their own training which is recognised and dealt with internally and is simple stuff such as retail briefs etc, it doesn’t mean that all EE staff I deal with are morons.
Where I live is getting FTTP although I suspect it will be Dec 2022 onwards before it gets to me, just because you had one bad experience doesn’t mean that I will reject the opportunity to future proof my home.
And no I do not have any links to the industry and I do not work in the industry, I simply have a more realistic and pragmatic view of life.
I was offered free no obligation trial by TalkTalk/Freedom Fibre. Brilliant service. Still have old broadband and telephone,
A lot of people don’t seem to understand that more and more areas are getting stop sale orders on everything but FTTP ie Salisbury, once your FTTC contract is up you have to go FTTP or change to VM,
For talk talk just making appointments is a nightmare for likes of self employed contractors who get paid per job. They just waste everyone’s time and money
FTTP Engineer is correct. When your telephone exchange goes Priority/Stop Sell and FTTP is available at your address, then when your present ADSL/FTTC contract ends, you can only have a FTTP contract.This applies if you upgrade with your present supplier, recontract with your present supplier or move to a different ISP. When you have moved to FTTP, there is no going back to copper based broadband, ADSL/FTTC. Sky and Vodafone have gone VOIP, either pay as you use or pay monthly, Sky £12, Vodafone £8. Your corded phone or base station connects to the router. With the Vodafone router you will require an adapter rj11 male plug to bt female socket. The VOIP is DECT based. Hope this is of assistance.
@Fibre Scriber, He may be right, but I have just had a thought, if these people are forced to to fibre from FTTC at the same speed, what happens if they want to change ISP and the ISP they want to change to don’t have a lower speed package?
So say I was with Talk Talk using their lowest speed FTTC, which is around 40Mb/s I presume, they push me to Fibre same price, same speed, then after the contract I decided I had enough of Talk Talk and decided I want to give say BT a try, now they only have faster speeds available on Fibre at a higher cost. So I would either have to go back to FTTC with BT or stay with Talk Talk.
Slower speed services have to be made available or put the faster speed services at a lower price. BT full fibre is around £35 a month for the lowest speed, a speed I don’t need, but i can get FTTC for less at the speed i that is fine for me.
I know people say it is not just about the speed, but for many people it is about the cost.
Consumers will need to be able to cross between different providers on FTTP and still keep the lower price package/speed they have.
‘what happens if they want to change ISP and the ISP they want to change to don’t have a lower speed package?’
Wouldn’t a price-conscious consumer look at what’s actually available to them before deciding they want to move to that ISP?
When they come to sign up they’ll get their options. Are you suggesting a customer should be able to decide which ISP, and the price they are willing to pay?
Markets don’t work like that. Companies offer products and services and we as consumers buy them or not. Options vary across a lot of fields for a bunch of reasons.
Reply to @Ad47uk 12:25 post, second paragraph.
The answer to the question you posed is, you can’t go back to FTTC when you have had FTTP installed at your address. One exception I can think of, if you move house and that property is unable to get FTTP, then you could have FTTC. Remember the copper switch off date is December 2025. No new copper telephone landlines can be ordered from September 2023. 651 Exchanges have either already gone Priority or have a date set when they will, usually within several months. The 651 Exchanges announced so far are in tranche’s 1 to 9. If you would like to find out about your exchange i can look it up for you. Hope this of some benefit.
@An Engineer, I don’t think you are getting what I mean. I am on plusnet FTTC, getting around 36Mb/s, Say Plusnet then decided I had to go on their FTTP, but they will keep it at the same price and speed I get now, but say in 2 years after that I had enough of Plusnet and want to move to another provider, but all I see is higher speed, higher cost FTTP packages from other suppliers. So I will be stuck with Plusnet. If we are going to be shoved onto FTTP, then providers need to have a lower speed, cheaper option.
We need broadband these days for everyday life, sure you could get by without it, I know someone who does, no mobile phone, no broadband, nothing like that, but they do find it a pain in the neck sometimes as everything is online. To me broadband is just another bill I don’t want to pay, but in this day and age it is required, I don’t need super duper high speed broadband and I can stream everything I want. that will be the same for a lot of people, but they are being told this new fandangle fibre thing that offers then super duper speed with they will pay extra for and yet won’t get any more out of it. Like people going into PC world and getting talked into a £1,000 machine when all they need is a cheap laptop to browse or write a few letters.
@Fibre Scriber
I am not on about going back to FTTC, but I will come to that in a bit, what I am on about is, being put onto FTTP by your current provider, but at the same speed and price as the FTTC package, but not being able to get that sort of package if I changed provider, because as far as i can see, not one ISP that offers FTTP offers anything below 100Mb/s and they all charge either sloe to £30 a month or over it, I did have a quick look last night before I went to bed to check, I was tired, so I may have missed something, but later on I will have a better look.
I don’t want to pay £30 a month for something I don’t need. If I am going to be pushed to fibre, then providers need to offer a cheaper, slower speed option.
You say there is no going back to FTTC, what if the user went to an ISP that don’t do FTTP? I presume there are some that still don’t. I realise that in time that will change.
As for 2025, I am going to worry about that as much as I worry about MS not supporting Windows 10, it is a few years away, so not bothered.
You say that no new copper telephone landlines can be ordered from September 2023, so what happens if there is no FTTP in an area? I can’t see openreach providing the whole country with Fibre in a little over a year.
I have 12 months to think about what to do, I am certainly in no rush, I did say to plusnet that this contract may be the last one, when I phoned them up because Sky got the wrong address when changing my next door neighbour broadband from BT. But to be honest, the more I look at this fibre and the more problems I see people are having and the prices, I think what do I need it for?
Reply to @Ad47uk 27/7/22
Before i answer would just like to say I’m up to spec on this subject.
You are not going to be pushed onto full fibre with plusnet, you’re present contract will be honoured, even if you’re exchange has gone Priority/ Stop Sell. The change occurs when your exchange has gone Priority/StopSell and your contract ends. I understand you are concerned about prices in relation to speed, no real need, prices don’t change a lot until you get above 100mbs. For instance with BT Full Fibre: Fibre Essentials, Fibre1 and Fibre2 and speeds 38, 50 and 74
correspond roughly with FTTC prices. You are right in saying not all isp firms offer full fibre, Now Broadband being one, and until very recently Plusnet. Although not advertised on their website they have begun to offer Full Fibre to exsisting customers in certain areas when they ring to enquire. If you have been with them for a while I’m sure you could negotiate a good price. My own exchange has gone Priority/Stop Sell a few months back and if I tried to get a ADSL/FTTC contract, it would now show, not available in your area. A good FTTC contract to have at the moment is with NOW Broadband, Super Fibre, average speed 63mbs,depending on the distance you are from the cabinet of course, £20 for 12 months. The same contract including free uk landline and uk mobile calls ran from last Autumn till mid April. My offer stands, let me know what exchange you are on, or code for same and i will look up your Priority/Stop Sell date. Hope this info is of use.
@Fibre Scriber, I am not sure what is happening here to be honest, I see openreach vans and they are putting equipment on the poles and then I see Zzoomm who are also up the poles, but they normally put fibre underground. So are we just having zzoomm or is openreach also going to provide FTTP here?
My contract is for another 12 months and as I said above, I am not sure what is happening. I did find a list showing stop sells, it was made in January last year, finding an up-to-date list is impossible, I thought I found one from openreach site, and it leads to a broken link, we were not on it. I thought fibre 1 and 2 was FTTC, this is why people are confused.
At the end of the day I am not bothered how my broadband gets here, cable, fibre, over the air like I had a few years ago, as long as it works and does what I need and don’t cost a fortune. My main problem is the hassle of installation, when I first went onto FTTC, I had openreach come down to install it, but that was a pretty quick job, new faceplate, chucked the modem in, done some checks and went. FTTP is more than that with drilling holes and installing boxes and that sort of thing, and to be honest I don’t really want that.
I just had another search for stop sell, by the seems of it, it is 2025 here, if you want a look just in case i got it wrong the Network identifier code is WNHR, cheers.
It looks like i have a few years yet.
I did not know ISPs sold FTTP at lower speeds, everything seems to be 100Mb/s or more, I realise they can go lower as when Talk Talk or others force people to FTTP they will not be able to rise the price and speed unless the consumer say so.
Reply to @Ad47uk 27/7/22 9:08pm
Checked the details you gave, (won’t mention the name for your privacy) The group of exchanges under wnhr are not listed yet on openreach, the reason being, the provisional Priority/Stop Sell date is Sept 23 and a year’s notice is given before an exchange goes Priority/Stop Sell. You said openreach installed equipment when you had FTTC installed, that would have been a NTE5c master socket with a vdsl Mk4 front plate,no need for an external filter, one port for telephone and one for broadband. There is no need to be concerned about having full fibre installed in most cases. I will give you an idea on what happens. The fibre drop cable will either come from a pole or a bt man hole. If your present connection comes from a pole then more than likely so will the fibre drop cable. The full fibre comes from a cbt (connectorised block terminal) to the wall of your property where a csp is fitted,(customer service point) the drop cable is spliced to a very thin inside out cable, about 5mm diameter. This fibre cable is connected to a ont (optical network terminal) The ont is small and plugs into a power point. A ethernet cable is plugged into the ont and to the wan port on your router. You will be supplied with the router from your isp. There are three lights showing on the ont when operational- power, pon, and lan. Power is self explanatory, pon, passive optical network, lan, local area network. One other indicator not lit when in use is los, loss of service. All that remains to be done is connect your devices to wifi or ethernet cable to computer. So one small hole drilled to bring the fibre cable in and couple to mount the ont. Two free power points needed,one for the ont and one for the router. Any questions feel free to ask. Hope this is of help.
To @Ad47uk
Correction, the inside out cable is about 3mm diameter, noticed my mistake when reading the post back. You can look up photos of the cbt, csp and ont to familiarise yourself, then you can keep a lookout for when they install the cbt on the pole. Connectorised Block Terminals usually support 4, 8 or 12 premises. As I said before, any questions feel free to ask.
@Fibre Scriber, Thanks for the help, but I know how fibre is put into the house, my other lives in a Village where there is fibre, and we had a look at one of her neighbours’ connection, also I have looked on YouTube. I did mean to type 2023, not 25. Openreach replaced the faceplate when he came to do my FTTC, that is all to be honest, he said he may as well as the faceplate was the original ADSL that was put in, I have never used external filters apart from testing via the test socket under the faceplate. I had ADSl when it was first launched here in 2000, when openreach done the installation for us, I have still got the Frog modem here somewhere. The other thing he did when he came for my FTTC installation was take the cover off a junction box by the front door just to check if things was ok. I presume years ago, this was where a phone was directly connected before we had phone sockets, the cable to the master socket comes from here.
I was having a search around on the net last night, when I should have been going to bed, thankfully I am not going to work today, but I am up early to go and get eyes tested. Anyway, I was doing a search about this digital phone line, that we are all having. It seems as if there will be a minimal broadband with it, so people who have FTTC, can still have a lower speed and cost service. I could be wrong. My problem with this is people who don’t have broadband and don’t want broadband, but just want a home phone, openreach line rental costs a fortune as it is, so are they going to have to pay more just for a phone?
The other thing is that there is no battery backup, Open reach seems to have got rid of that, no doubt to save money.
If I did not have broadband, I would not have a phone line. I don’t have a phone connected onto the line anyway, I do have VoIP via Sipgate, I had it when I changed from ADSL to a wireless broadband service, mainly for my Dad to phone me, so he did not have to call a mobile. When i changed to FTTC, I just kept the VoIP as other people know the number, including work and the NHS.
I had to use an adaptor to connect my phone to the Linksys Pap, I only have one extension and that is behind the TV, sky put it in when I had Sky TV many, many years ago, I presume it still works, I remember openreach reconnecting it when they put FTTC here, i got rid of sky Tv just over a year after I had it and I have not used the socket behind the TV since. I have old BT cordless Dect phones, they work fine on VoIP.
the system have been working for 9 year at least, the Syslink PAP have been so reliable.
I know what they do when they put in the FTTP, but I have heard so many stories of problems and the mess they leave, both opennreach and ZZoomm, it does put me off, holes in the wall is no problem, I already have two they can use, one where the Sky dish cable went in and one where the cable from the wireless broadband went in, I still have that on the roof, Allpay who installed it, said they were not going to remove it due to health and safety, and yet they put it up in a thunderstorm. So I have what looks like a mini mobile phone mast on my roof 🙂 It is a good talking point. i don’t really want another box, I have enough as it is with all the hubs I have, Philips Hue, one for the thermostat, my Syslink, Switchbot hub and a couple of network switches.
i have a bit of time to decide what I am doing, in 12 months time we should know what is going on around here, if we are having openreach and zzoomm or just zzoomm for the time being.
I must go and get these eyes tested, not that i want to 🙂
again, grateful for the info
Reply to @Ad47uk 28/7/22 8.08am
If you are happy with FTTC and your contract with plusnet runs to July 23, best thing to do is takeout another FTTC contract with whoever is best at the time for 24 months, that will take you to the summer of 65, (joke) 25. You will be able to do that in July 23 because your exchange won’t have gone Priority/Stop Sell at that time. The can will have been well kicked down the road!! I’m sure you already know but incase you don’t, BT own Plusnet and SKY own NOW Broadband.
Hope everything has gone well with your eye test today. Cheers.
Reply to @Fibre Scriber 28/7/22 8.08am
Summer of 65, I would not know, I would have only been a couple of months old 🙂
I know that Bloated toad owns Plusnet and EE, I did say I did not want anything to do with Bloated toad, but after my wireless broadband went belly up, I had no choice but to go back to the openreach network and Plusnet was a good price and the only one and I knew someone who was using Plusnet and they said it was ok I was only going to stay with them for one contract, but to be honest they may be owned by BT, but they are not BT, they have or did have far better customer service. Easier to understand a Yorkshire accent than a person in India.
The problem is I don’t like long contracts, 18 months is too long really, but 24 is way too long. We will see what is happening next July when my contract ends. I chatted to a zzoomm bloke today and he seems to think that openreach are also doing their network here as well. I know plusnet is silently launching their FTTP at the moment, but give it a couple of months or more and they will start to ramp it up I presume. I am hoping they will leave me alone and don’t do a Talk Talk and try to change me onto their FTTP, even if I am in contract.
I was looking at Now broadband a few years ago as I had now TV at the time, then I remember it was sky and that put me off. I had bad dealing with Sky many years ago, the only reason had now TV was because of a good deal on a Black Friday, that gave me movies and the box for free for 12 months, so I kept it for those 12 months and then got rid of it. The box is here somewhere. Fair play to sky they only emailed me once about offers for now TV.
Anyway, I presume i will see what is going on around here in the next few weeks, zzoomm said they should be down my road by next week and if openreach is also around here, I doubt they will be long either, once they have done with their strikes.,
My eyetest went ok, but I spent over £200 for specs and the eye test.
Glad I read this, not because I’m getting fttp any time soon but I am worrying cat 6a throng my house. I’ve also made runs of telephone cable… It didn’t occur to me this might be useless in a few years.
What sort of cable would I need to use? Cat5a? Or can you hook into the old analogue network?
Amazed at my spell check skills… Wiring cat 6a through my house!
Cat5E or Cat6A are fine. (The latter is a bit more expensive and less flexible, but it is capable of operating at 10G)
You could use it to connect from your ONT to your router, if you decide not to locate them next to each other. Or you can use it to connect from your router to any wired devices, such as PCs or additional wireless access points. If you have many jacks to wire then ideally you’d make a “star” where they all come back to one place, and locate your router or switch there.
Existing telephone cable can still be used for analogue phone extensions, but they will now have to connect to the telephony port on your router, or on a separate ATA if you take a third-party VOIP service.
Note that you can run analogue extensions over Cat5E/6A as well, but you’ll need the appropriate adapters to convert to BT plugs. So there’s no point installing both. Better to put two RJ45 jacks in each room, and then you can either use both for data, or have one data + one telephone.
It’s only an A/B Test… Would be interesting to see the other versions of the letter…
I still think British ISPs underestimate how much the average consumer understands if you just explain it to them properly… Ok… Maybe I’m overestimating them
But seriously… “Future fibre” “Vodafone Gigafast” “full fibre” “ultrafast” “FTTP” “FTTH”… They’re not making it easier for themselves…
And the latest EE campaign with “100 devices” is an absolute joke…
This is the problem, it confuses people, It confuses me sometimes, and I follow all of this. As I have said before, a lot of people think they already have fibre because of the posters on openreach cabinets saying Fibre is Here.
My next door neighbour have changed to Sky FTTC and few months ago, and it took years to get them to change from BT, so when Openreach fibre comes here, if sky tries to push them onto fibre, they may come up to stiff resistance.
My next door neighbour changing from BT to sky was fun, Sky got the address wrong and I had an email from Plusnet, saying Sorry you are leaving and telling me when my broadband would be changed over. Had to email saying no, I’m not going, thankfully they realised because I had only renewed my contract with plusnet a few days before.
I wonder what would happen if the same mistake was made with FTTH?
I wonder if Openreach is subsidising this to help accelerate the 2025 analogue switchoff, with an initial push towards Digital voice/VoIP for lines that are covered by a LLU.
Odd that TT isn’t being clear about transition of landline phone to VoIP.
I wonder if it would help if TT was supplying on premise equipment that included a battery backup and ensured the engineer visit transition of the existing analogue extensions to VoIP easier unhooking the extensions from the original master and putting in whatever is necessary to patch over from wherever the router is located (currently with ADSL/VDSL on the phone line, or from a new ONT location close to an existing extension.)
Somthing people should be aware of on TalkTalks free upgrade via CityFibre is the line profiles. I found out that the profile of the line is locked to TalkTalk supplied routers and doesn’t work with other brands of router. Mine was a TP-LINK AX73 and despite having been assured that it would work with the new connection it didn’t. I had to threaten them with OFCOM and having my original line reinstated before they miraculous got CityFibre to change the line profile and all worked. I’m not sure if preventing customers using other makes of router fails OFCOM rules against anti-competitive practice, but if you intend to use a non- TalkTalk router you should be aware of this potential issue.
That’s very strange. I’ve got a number of TT clients on CF. All with TP-link Omada routers. Just plug in and go no issues at all. No Auth needed all done on DHCP. For now we get 900/900 no profiles changed.
CF don’t lock ONT like that. Sounds like a different issue TalkTalk resolved.
I’m a TT customer on their slowest FTTC. Openreach have not upgraded the exchange to alow faster speeds. The other options here now are KCOM FTTP and mobile 4G from Three. Both are out of the question as KCOM is expensive, even for their cheapest speed, and Three 4G during peak times is slower than their 3G speeds. As for TT FTTC, never had a problem apart from when Northern Gas Networks contractors dug through the main fiber optic cable feeding our town 2 miles away from the exchange. I use a Draytek Router with my choice of DNS server addresses.
No doubt will be expected to take a day off work so some Engineer can lumber around my house with a hammer drill looking for a suitable wall to drill into. Although I appreciate that working full time is largely a minority pastime these days……
I remember people complained when Dial up switched to vDSL. People are stupid.
I am a bit annoyed with the approach from TalkTalk, I have never heard of this FTTP or H or whatever it is.. as far as I’m aware I’m on Super Fast broadband.. and had someone come install some special line to the house a few years ago- then I had a router and another box that it connected to? But now, since joining TT, I just have the router connected to the socket in wall.
I saw some workmen digging up my neighbours drive the other week and wondered what work they were having done… then saw they left behind an orange barrier which had an openreach logo on it.
I then thought, “I’m glad that isn’t my drive!” As they have tarmacked back over where they dug up the hole and now their drive has a lovely mismatched patch on it!
I never thought anything else about it, then today I noticed I had an email from TalkTalk – no letter as yet – and I can’t log into my account right now to see if they sent one paperless, as it says their website is down for maintenance!
Anyway, the email says ‘It’s almost time to go live’ I’m thinking.. what they on about!? I’m already live! I’ve been with TT for about 3 months now, so wondered if it was a email mailout glitch…
I carried on reading the email.. and it goes on about how an engineer has been booked and will be coming on a date in August.. and to ensure I have 3 power sockets available! WTF!? Why 3… and no I don’t have 3 available sockets as my router is in my music room and I need all the sockets I can get for my audio equipment / laptop etc. — will the need for 3 be permanent or temp while they install?
The email is mega confusing as I’ve no idea what the hell it is I’m supposedly being upgraded to… Will my speed stay the same? Or increase? But for free?
Ultimately, yes I’m happy to move with the times, but this has just come out of the blue. I could have easily have been on holiday the day the engineer comes.
I work from home and Mondays can be busy. Lots if meetings etc.
I’ve read a few comments and wonder why this new box can’t draw its power from a USB – like the chromecasts can, that would free up a power socket!
I still don’t fully understand how my landline phone will work? I purposely signed up with TalkTalk as other providers were only offering broadband, but I need the landline phone/number to recieve calls from my elderly relatives who only ring me/my OH via their land line – mobiles too confusing for them etc. So I don’t really want to lose that right now.
Big parts of the country still no FTTP, especially in Leicester and East Anglia, get these sorted before things like this.
Just had this done , my old rooter got moved upstairs so now my talk talk box don’t work as it’s not hard wired into the rooter. My t.v and solar panels where all hard wired into the rooter. Now I have no idea what to do. To top it of the internet is worse now then before I wish I didn’t do this
And no next morning I have no internet at all do not have the up grade it’s bad