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Virgin Media O2 UK Puts Possible £3bn TalkTalk Merger on Ice

Monday, Oct 31st, 2022 (2:24 pm) - Score 7,352
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A major newspaper has reported that Virgin Media (VMO2) has allegedly gone cold on the idea of reaching a £3bn merger deal with budget UK ISP TalkTalk, which would have added the provider’s broadband base of over 4.2 million to their own base of 5.6 million in order to more effectively compete with BT.

The deal became a hot topic in mid-July after multiple newspapers reported that talks were underway (here), which could have created a broadband operator with a comparable customer base to BT’s. Such a deal may have also helped to support VMO2’s plans to expand their Fibre-to-the-Premises (FTTP) network to a further 7 million UK premises by 2027 via a new joint venture (here).

However, the Sunday Telegraph (paywall) claims that VMO2’s parents may have had a rethink due to market and regulatory uncertainties, which partly reflects the UK’s wider economic turmoil (i.e. debt markets are not as accessible as they were a few months ago) and questions over what position the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) might have taken. Not to mention the recent issues with TalkTalk’s accounting practices (here).

On top of that there’s a question mark over whether or not TalkTalk is worth £3bn. Back in 2020 they became the subject of a £1.1bn takeover by Toscafund (here), which including debt valued the broadband provider at around £1.8bn. But since then they’ve backed altnet builder Freedom Fibre (here), acquired Ethernet provider Virtual1 (here) and gobbled up Ovo Energy‘s (SSE) broadband base of 135,000 customers (here).

Despite this, the newspaper reports that VMO2 and TalkTalk are still allegedly engaged in “strategic discussions“, which are thought to include the possibility of the ISP harnessing Virgin’s network as part of a wholesale agreement. VMO2 have long planned to wholesale out access to their existing network, and they’re also establishing an open access network via a new joint venture, which will extend their fibre to another 5-7 million premises.

At the same time, TalkTalk are, much like other ISPs, also in talks with Openreach about the possibility of introducing further price cuts to FTTP under a new ‘Equinox 2‘ discount scheme (here). The Sunday Times appears to suggest that such a deal could raise questions over TalkTalk’s existing relationship with its other major network partner, Cityfibre. But so far the ISP has done a reasonable job of adopting both in a complementary fashion and Equinox 2 may not be aggressive enough to remove Cityfibre’s cost advantage (e.g. TalkTalk’s 1Gbps package on Cityfibre is just £36, but that goes up to £49 on Openreach).

Mind you, had TalkTalk and VMO2 agreed to merge as previously proposed, then that could have had a much bigger impact on the provider’s wholesale relationships with Openreach, Cityfibre and Freedom Fibre. But without a merger, TalkTalk may at some point need to raise more funding to keep their balance sheet in order.

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Mark-Jackson
By Mark Jackson
Mark is a professional technology writer, IT consultant and computer engineer from Dorset (England), he also founded ISPreview in 1999 and enjoys analysing the latest telecoms and broadband developments. Find me on X (Twitter), Mastodon, Facebook and .
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Comments
12 Responses
  1. Avatar photo John says:

    Talktalk can easily make deals with other altnets just like they’ve done with Community Fibre. Taking on VM would be a big risk

  2. Avatar photo Roger_Gooner says:

    The acquisition of TalkTalk would mean that VMO2 would have to deal with the £1.1bn debt burden of a company whose low income customers are already struggling with high inflation and energy costs. VMO2 would also have to borrow to fund this acquisition, and raising capital is hard these days unless you pay a premium.

    1. Avatar photo Ad47uk says:

      Talk Talk is £1.1bn in debt? I knew they were having money problems, but I did not think it was that much.

      Talk talk have always been classed as a low-cost provider, but they not so low cost these days, no doubt because other providers are matching them,
      I don’t know how it would work out if they did marge, We don’t have VM up here, so would VM have taken over Talk Talk openreach network customers?
      The problem is, then these companies say merge, they mean take over.

    2. Avatar photo Badem says:

      ahh the Tosca Buyout had to be funded somehow…

      Never understood these mergers to be honest, borrow Money to buy the firm, get the firm then load it with the debt incurred buying it…

      Also, worth shedding a light on how much of the TalkTalk workforce has subsequently been TUPE to CGI etc to do the same job for TalkTalk, cant imagine thats been easy on their CAPEX either…

  3. Avatar photo Jazzy says:

    Had Talk Talk years ago when I was renting a flat. Nightmare company. Moved to Virgin (Telewest) when my job was moved and had to rent a second flat, they were no better

    Only ISP’s I have ever had good service off are BT and Sky. Sky have always offered me busting deals to keep me as a tv and multiroom customer too

    1. Avatar photo Richard says:

      … and yet I’ve found TT spot on.

      I really don’t want to be a VM customer

  4. Avatar photo David Chambers says:

    Need to put money into the O2 side of things the network is creaking at the seams as many of those on Virgin have found out.

    1. Avatar photo XGS Is On says:

      Some of that is happening already on the backhaul side. Can’t speak to the number and capability of the mobile masts but they’re certainly going to be enjoying some benefit from having access to Virgin Media’s national data network.

    2. Mark-Jackson Mark Jackson says:

      We do have to remember that the merger is only very recent, and it can take years to fully realise the benefits of that, due to both technical / practical and contractual reasons (it was no different for BT / EE). So it’s not like O2 will instantly be able to resolve all of their capacity woes, but as ‘XGS Is On’ says, we do see work taking place on this front.

  5. Avatar photo David says:

    IAM A TALK TALK CUSTOMER AND I HAVEN’T HAD ANY PROBLEMS WITH THEM BUT I DO FEEL OF THEY MERGE WITH VO2 THEN SORRY I WOULD LEAVE TALK TALK AS I DIDN’T LIKE VIRGIN

    1. Avatar photo Mark says:

      OK A COMPLETELY POINTLESS COMMENT FOR YOU TO MAKE

  6. Avatar photo Ex Telecom Engineer says:

    Why anyone thought this VMO2 TalkTalk takeover nonsense had any substance is beyond me. VMO2 are cash strapped from the merger, they have as much debt as BT with substantially less revenue and VMO2 have said they want to convert their network to FTTP, not cheap. TalkTalk customers could easily walk post a takeover and many of TalkTalk’s customers aren’t in VMO2 franchise areas, so VMO2 would replace TalkTalk as Openreach’s customer.
    This whole thing was probably more about TalkTalk negotiating better terms with Openreach and VMO2 having a laugh while BT’s share price takes a kicking. It isn’t a stretch to assume City interests didn’t encourage this speculation to benefit in some way.
    Below is what I said when the story broke back in July:

    “Where are VMO2 getting the reported £3 Billion from? And aren’t the majority of Talk Talk customers supplied via Openreach FTTC/FTTP? If it happened, wouldn’t VMO2 have to run Talk Talk customers via the existing network, and only rebrand? As it probably wouldn’t be feasible to migrate them onto VMO2’s network for years. There’s also a possibility some may decide to move, if they suffer customer service issues as a result of any takeover/reorganisation.
    I’m not saying this story is false, but I personally find it hard to believe that VMO2 would takeover Talk Talk. It’ll be interesting to find out if there’s anything behind this, other than another media release targetting BT’s share price. I believe the story was released through Sky News, and the Telegraph around the same time, aproximately 14:24 to 14:35, but BT’s share price started falling around 20 minutes earlier as far as I can tell. It appears some in the city were given the heads up, or knew the story was being released beforehand.”

    https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2022/07/virgin-media-o2-uk-offers-3bn-in-talktalk-broadband-merger.html

    It appears I was correct in my assumptions.

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