Home
 » ISP News, Key Developments » 
Sponsored

BT Invest £12bn on FTTP Broadband for 20 Million UK Premises

Thursday, May 7th, 2020 (7:56 am) - Score 23,870
testing fibre

The BT Group has today published their Q4 2019/20 (financial) results and announced a tentative “target” to boost the national roll-out of their “gigabit-capable” Fibre-to-the-Premises (FTTP) broadband ISP network, which could see Openreach reach 20 million UK premises by the “mid – to late-2020s.”

At present Openreach are already well on their way to achieving their initial goal of 4 million premises (homes and businesses) passed with “full fibre” (FTTP) by the end of March 2021 (they’ve so far completed 2.6 million premises), which was previously expected to be followed by 15 million around 2025. Suffice to say that today’s news could be seen as an extension of that plan, adding another 5 million in the 2025-2030 period.

NOTE: Openreach said they’re currently building 1Gbps FTTP at a rate of 32,000 premises passed per week (up from 27,000 last quarter).

Previously the operator had made clear that their future deployment strategy is contingent upon changes from Ofcom and the Government, such as access to easier wayleaves, protection for their investment and a longer business rates holiday on new fibre. Today’s announcement also confirms that in order to do that, as well as roll-out 5G and tackle the impact of COVID-19, they’ve had to take the “difficult decision to suspend the dividend until 2022 and re-base thereafter.”

Interestingly the new results state that BT’s current FTTP roll-out will reach 4.5 million premises by March 2021, which is above their current target and perhaps reflects the need to ramp-up deployments further in order to hit the new goal. The operator also expects to maintain an impressive “average build cost of £300-£400 per premises passed across [the] 20 million,” but obviously some of their more rural roll-outs will exceed that.

The gross build costs in schemes supported by public subsidy – which we also expect to contribute to the 20m plan – are significantly higher than this range. The build cost of FTTP deployed at new housing sites which also contributes to the 20m is also higher since the build and provision stages are typically collapsed into one phase and there is less existing passive infrastructure available to use,” said BT.

Philip Jansen, BT Group CEO, said:

“Of course, Covid-19 is affecting our business, but the full impact will only become clearer as the economic consequences unfold over the next 12 months. Due to Covid-19, BT is not providing guidance for 2020/21, at this time.

BT has the best network infrastructure in the UK. We have the leading 4G network and are rapidly expanding our leadership position in 5G, that today covers over 80 towns and cities. We have the largest and most extensive fixed network and are leading the UK on the next generation Fibre-to-the-Premises (FTTP) network where we now pass 2.6 million premises. Today we are announcing a rapid acceleration of our FTTP build with a target of 20 million premises passed by the mid- to late-2020s, including a significant build in rural areas. After passing 1.3 million premises last year, we are aiming at over 2 million in 2020/21, and envisage a maximum build rate of 3 million premises per year. Our FTTP investment should deliver pre-tax nominal returns of between 10% to 12% and is based on a regulatory framework consistent with Ofcom’s preferred policy direction and continued support for infrastructure investment and competition.

The continued delivery of market leading customer experiences remains core to our success, with a focus on driving the take-up of converged product offerings such as Halo, our premium converged offering for homes and businesses. In the short period since launch, Halo now represents over 30% of our BT consumer broadband base.

BT is delivering, but is also changing. BT needs to be leaner, simpler and more agile. Today we are announcing a radical modernisation and simplification programme that will use technology to create a better BT for the future. This 5-year initiative will re-engineer old and out of date processes, rationalise products, reduce re-work and switch off many legacy services. This next stage in the modernisation of BT will deliver gross annualised savings of £2 billion over the next 5 years.”

Otherwise the main developments for BT over the past quarter are as follows:

Financial Highlights – BT’s Quarterly Change
* BT Group revenue = £5,632m (down from £5,779m)
* BT Group profit after tax = £208m (down from £458m)
* BT Group total net debt = £17,969m (from £18,234m)

The KPIs for BT’s results also noted that the gross BDUK grant funding deferral (clawback) included in capacity/network was: 2014/15: £29m; 2015/16: £229m; 2016/17: £188m; 2017/18: £112m; 2018/19: £213m; 2019/20: £17m (total = £788m). This reflects public money that can often be returned by BT and reinvested by local authorities to help boost “superfast broadband” coverage (currently at around 97%). A good chunk of this has already been re-invested into such contracts.

Sadly BT no longer provide customer figures for their own retail broadband ISP, although we note that 79.7% of their consumer broadband base now take a “superfast broadband” service (up from 77.1% last quarter – mostly FTTC) and this drops to just 2.4% (up from 2.1%) for their “ultrafast broadband” (FTTP/G.fast) products.

Openreach’s Network

The table below offers a breakdown of fixed line network coverage and take-up by technology on Openreach’s national UK network, which covers the totals for all ISPs combined (e.g. BT, Sky Broadband, TalkTalk, Zen Internet, Vodafone etc.).

Otherwise the rollout of full fibre lines remains the dominant one among the two “ultrafast” technologies, with FTTP adding 419,000 premises (up from +346,000 last quarter) and hybrid fibre G.fast adding just 89,000 premises (down from 308,000 last quarter).

The commercial G.fast roll-out has now largely ground to a halt following Openreach’s recent review (here), which means their future focus is now almost entirely on full fibre lines. Openreach were due to formally announce the outcome of that review last month but the COVID-19 has caused an on-going delay, but today’s data confirms that not much has changed in the past quarter.

openreach_q4_2019-20_network_coverage_and_takeup

The results also confirm that take-up of FTTP is now 20.35% (down from 21.57% last quarter), while G.fast stands at just 2.84% (up from 2.5% last quarter). However such figures don’t tell the whole story since, until now, both technologies have been ramping up their roll-out, which means adoption is likely to trail a bit (i.e. it’s also dynamically impacted by lots of factors like consumer choice, awareness and deployment pace).

One aspect of G.fast’s deployment pace slowing to a crawl is that its take-up % will actually increase going forward, while FTTP is likely to go down as Openreach ramps up the rollout. The best way to examine take-up without all of these caveats would be to only examine areas that have been live for 12 and 24 months, but unfortunately that sort of data isn’t provided above.

 

Share with Twitter
Share with Linkedin
Share with Facebook
Share with Reddit
Share with Pinterest
Mark Jackson
By Mark Jackson
Mark is a professional technology writer, IT consultant and computer engineer from Dorset (England), he also founded ISPreview in 1999 and enjoys analysing the latest telecoms and broadband developments. Find me on Twitter, , Facebook and Linkedin.
Leave a Comment
135 Responses
  1. Avatar CarlT says:

    Scrapping dividend will crater the share price as a bunch of organisations hold those shares for the dividend but it is what it is. Most telcos at some point did so when building out FTTP and it presents a buying opportunity for the future for those minded to invest.

    1. Avatar A_Builder says:

      @CarlT

      “Crater share price”

      I’m not sure that is quite right.

      Balance off the rapid creation of a long term asset with an accepted market valuation.

      This decision means the asset base of BT increases in value rapidly. As do predictable future earnings.

      There will be some short term it’s who sell and lots who pile into a company that is rapidly striding away from the old days.

    2. Avatar Sunil Sood says:

      @CarlT

      I suspect the axing of the dividend won’t have as much impact as it might have had – due to Covid many dividend player stocks have axed or cut their dividend over the past few weeks including the banks and Shell – so income seekers have fewer alternatives.

    3. Avatar joe says:

      I agree with the reasons given by AB and Sunil.

    4. Avatar CarlT says:

      With all due a bunch of institutions hold BT shares for the steady dividend and will be looking for that dividend or return elsewhere – BT will be at least 2 years away from any kind of return for now so in the shorter term there will be people leaving.

      As I mentioned it may present opportunities at the bottom once it’s found and indeed may already have done so to an extent.

      Either way the share price has, on top of the losses due to the pandemic, shed another 8.7% as of writing which isn’t surprising. Investors did much the same to Verizon way back when.

    5. Avatar A_Builder says:

      Some of the big institutions were publicly calling in BT to limit dividends to invest more as they were terrified by End of Life on the copper network and the total inaction of the old team.

      That was reported in both The Times and Telegraph and I can tell you I heard it expressed on investor calls.

      Anyway I think they have done the right thing by

      -UK consumers and businesses
      -pensioners
      -shareholders

      By doing this now. No quibbles from me.

    6. Avatar CarlT says:

      I neither said it was a good or bad thing, merely that it would cause the share price to crater, which it has.

      I’m very much in favour of it for what it’s worth.

    7. Avatar joe says:

      We have a very diff def of crater..

    8. Avatar CarlT says:

      It’s not easy for companies the size of BT to move by 8+%.

      A smaller stock is more volatile. FTSE-100 stocks losing 8% isn’t pleasant though it is a smaller drop than I would’ve expected.

      However these are weird times. I suspect it would’ve been far more acute as was mentioned in more normal times. The stock is way lower than it would normally be anyway and there aren’t that many places for investors to put their money right now.

    9. Avatar Meadmodj says:

      There will be share price volatility until the news has sunk in fully. The current price being low and at a time of impending contraction for the overall economy the announcement was I thought robust and included potential COVID 19 impact contingency. There are a lot of companies out there have yet to be so clear. For the wider BT they still need to throw off the high overheads and unnecessary complexity (layers of systems still dependant on legacy ones). The fact that that BT is focusing on aggressive rationalisation can only be good.

      The share price reflects all of BT but the key here is the level of commitment to OR. They except New Build is more expensive where there is no existing infrastructure and are counting on public funding to support rural but setting out their stall and outlining £12bn (probably £2bn per year) has to be good long term for them and many of us.

      There is plenty of space for enterprising providers (Hyperoptic/Truespeed etc) or those that roll out in high density areas. OR will take time to get there so their main threat may be VM/O2 during this period 2026/27 depending on price strategy. Following the BT and VM announcements many current/potential competitors will no doubt be running through their numbers again.

    10. Avatar Sunil Sood says:

      Also, worth remembering that much of today’s share price movement will also reflect the confirmation that Virgin Media and o2 are merging

      As A_Builder says many thought BT’s dividend was unsustainable even before Covid.

    11. Avatar James Band says:

      BT’s share price has already been on a clear downtrend for the last year or two. It’s quite appalling that they had such a dividend (15.4p) without any long term investment in their assets/network which would yield higher profits and secure market share in the future.

      Like the hare and tortoise, they have wasted their lead. Companies like Google, Amazon etc invested money for the longer term to continue to grow and improve. BT’s “investment” has been mediocre. This magic £12 billion plus investment in Full Fibre now is more out of fear than anything owing to the merger of VM and O2 (whether that will yield anything is another matter). They could have done this “investing” for this whole time – the last 10 years!

      If BT got their act together, they could still build a moral moat around themselves based on Full Fibre. Their greed to leech from ordinary people by keeping the majority of the network as copper, will now come to bite them back. You reap what you sow!

    12. Avatar FibreBubble says:

      Share price has just priced out the upcoming dividend payment. BT’s long suffering shareholders have seen the price tank for five years now.

    13. Avatar A_Buider says:

      @ James Band

      To be absolutely fair – old BT was actuarially a penny pinching operation with chronic myopia. That investment meant…..actually don’t get me started….an approach that killed a 1000 go companies.

      Whereas new BT believes in bold investment and knocking heads and departments together to deliver. There are going to be some sacred cows slaughtered to do this but it will be well worth it if only to fully secure the future of the company and it’s pensioners.

      This is an investable decision to today’s market.

    14. Avatar James Band says:

      A_Builder Yes the new BT CEO at least appears to have some vision and wants to invest. More should have been achieved by now though. And the pricing is still too high though I am glad my prediction that BT would never charge £100 a month for Ultrafast 900 was true. It still needs to come down to around £40 I reckon and that will see a surge in uptake. I do think BT squandered the last decade where they could have built a “lead” getting Full Fibre customers.

  2. Avatar NGA for all says:

    While reference is made to the BDUK gainshare, the £712m referenced last year as a Capital Deferral no longer gets a specific numeric reference, not one I could find in the 45 page download. This if converted into coverage would be more than enough to complete rural superfast.

    As an accounting treatment, it is likely to disappear if not managed and reported upon. The last BDUK report on Superfast was to September 2019.

    Given the impact of Covid19 on any election promise of £5bn, the outstanding gainshare and any funds from reconciling BT capital contributions will be the only means of funding the completion of rural.

    1. Mark Jackson Mark Jackson says:

      I’ve updated the article with some BDUK figures I found. A big chunk of it has already gone back into existing extension and new contracts.

    2. Avatar NGA for all says:

      Thanks ..they are still reporting as £788m we do not have a record of what was paid.

  3. Avatar Alex says:

    20 homes at £3-400 per home.

    How does that compare to other builders’ costs?

    1. Avatar Alex says:

      *20m i meant!

    2. Avatar CarlT says:

      It’s between half and two-thirds of the costs other large builders are reporting.

  4. Avatar dumdum says:

    “(they’ve so far completed 2.6 million premises), which was previously expected to be followed by 15 million around 2025.”

    “Openreach said they’re currently building 1Gbps FTTP at a rate of 32,000 premises passed per week (up from 27,000 last quarter).”

    Going to have to ramp that up a hell of a lot more to even meet the 15 Million figure by 2025. 32,000 premises per week equates to only another 8.320 Million premises in 5 years time. Which adding to the current 2.6 Million would leave them as good as 4.1 Million short of that “goal”.

    They need to be reaching 2.4 Million per year or 200,000 per month or around 50,000 a week to just reach the 15 Million “goal”

    Still at least with the 20 Million figure they have hedged their bets on not being able to ever do accurate maths and gave themselves a “2025-2030 period” estimate, have to wonder why they need a half decade gap of leeway if they are so confident on what they are reaching per week and can reach.

    No shock though, its basically more used car salesman figures and predictions done on a back of a fag packet. I dunno if BT do these calculations thereself or have a third party “work” out what is possible. If its a third party they need to get someone in that actually at the least owns a calculator.

    Good luck to them again with ANOTHER imaginary FTTP “goal”

    1. Avatar joe says:

      “Still at least with the 20 Million figure they have hedged their bets on not being able to ever do accurate maths and gave themselves a “2025-2030 period” estimate, have to wonder why they need a half decade gap of leeway if they are so confident on what they are reaching per week and can reach.”

      Because regulatory changes will make that more or less possible/desirable

    2. Avatar Sunil Sood says:

      @dumdum

      I take it you missed the bit which said

      ” After passing 1.3 million premises last year, we are aiming at over 2 million in 2020/21, and envisage a maximum build rate of 3 million premises per year.”

    3. Avatar Sharon Stone says:

      Were you never told as a child to keep your mouth shut if you didn’t have anything nice to say.

      Its a hugely ambitious target in a very challenging environment and in this particular time with the threat of a significant recession you should be patting BT / Openreach on the back for their significant commitment.

    4. Avatar dumdum says:

      @Joe, really they seem confident on a 2025 date for 15 Million. Whats another 5 Million to predict if they can predict down to the year on when they are going to manage to get another 12+ Million complete by?
      @Sunil Passed 1.3 Million last year did they… Interesting so over half the current rollout was basically done in a single year.
      @Sharon What part of doing maths is not “nice”. They can have a pat on the back though… Well done on the 7% plunge, well done on the yearly increased debt, well done on never meeting any original FTTP “goal” happy now.

      I see i have upset the BT herd, oh no! I wonder was it just me or also the complete lack of value they now have. hehehe

    5. Avatar joe says:

      As you either can’t/don’t read posts or apparently understand much at all I fear I’m wasting my time with a troll.

    6. Avatar FibreBubble says:

      Looks to me that Openreach have delivered pretty much as many homes passed as they said they would at pretty much the time they said they would. No reason to think they can’t keep doing that if they want to.

    7. Avatar Fastman says:

      Dumdum

      as you have clearly indicated you are on an altnet (perhaps you be so kind as to advise how many premises its covered , going to cover in the next 3 years or going to invest

    8. Avatar Josh Welby says:

      I totally agree with you

      BT are not going to hit their targets unless they seriously ramp up their rollouts

    9. Avatar dumdum says:

      @Joe i can read and understand perfectly. Please explain why they can predict when they are going to rollout to another 12.4 Million premises right down to the PRECISE year but they need half a decade to predict when another 5 Million on top of that would be done. I thought the rollout was supposed to speed up year on year not slow down or be unsure.

      @Fibrebubble really… https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2013/04/bt-abandons-native-uk-fttp-broadband-rollout-for-fttpod-and-fttc.html as just one laughable example

      @fastman My ISP does not make bold ass claims they can not back up so you do not see meaningless statements or “goals” from them. Oh and NO its not B4RN so not attacking your and the BT hive minds fave altnet villian. LOL

    10. Avatar CarlT says:

      Easy. They’ve provisionally planned out where they’re building to reach that first target and have some idea what are up against.

      In the case of the next target those premises will take significantly longer and until they’ve conducted detailed analysis and planning they aren’t comfortable with a more specific timeline.

      I appreciate it’s extremely popular here to assume that Openreach have no idea what they are doing and pull random numbers from their hindmost to give the business but this is very simply not the case.

      If people had more appreciation for that there are professionals with years of experience working for Openreach hopefully they’d abandon these presumptions.

      The focus of the business as a whole has changed. While the engineering is always going to be at the mercy of the people holding the purse strings in the current environment it’s a fair bet that Openreach will make this happen.

      For all we know they’ve received assurances over the regulatory environment and supply of labour.

      To blithely assume that they just spouting off is churlish. When the political pressure is on they make things happen.

    11. Avatar CarlT says:

      You can’t legitimately on the one hand berate them for increased debt, due to investment in FTTP, and on the other complain about their being slow to deploy it. Ramping up build costs money.

      You can’t complain about the share price dropping due to their abandoning their dividend to redirect the money towards FTTP and complain about their FTTP build.

      They can’t magic up FTTP. To build it costs money. To build it more quickly costs even more. They generate that through trading and borrowing.

      It’s abundantly clear there is nothing they can do you won’t complain about. They spend on FTTP it’s a failure due to increased debt and share price drop, they don’t spend on it and miss targets you complain about that. They set fairly specific targets you call them back of a cigarette packet calculations, they set wider ranges you complain about that, too.

      The tone and content of your post reminds me of someone who’s been here in various guises for a decade or more as The Facts, banned from forum for being abusive, Carpetburn, same name was used on Think Broadband before ban for being abusive, no idea about here.

      Ran into you in 2009 when you accused me of faking my Virgin Media 50 Mb speed and latency tests then I provided screenshots and you claimed they were from a leased line.

      Sort it out, man.

    12. Avatar CarlT says:

      I suppose one last one.

      “(they’ve so far completed 2.6 million premises), which was previously expected to be followed by 15 million around 2025.”

      ‘Going to have to ramp that up a hell of a lot more to even meet the 15 Million figure by 2025. 32,000 premises per week equates to only another 8.320 Million premises in 5 years time. Which adding to the current 2.6 Million would leave them as good as 4.1 Million short of that “goal”.

      They need to be reaching 2.4 Million per year or 200,000 per month or around 50,000 a week to just reach the 15 Million “goal”’

      ‘@Joe i can read and understand perfectly. Please explain why they can predict when they are going to rollout to another 12.4 Million premises right down to the PRECISE year but they need half a decade to predict when another 5 Million on top of that would be done. I thought the rollout was supposed to speed up year on year not slow down or be unsure.’

      As arrogant, rude and obnoxious as ever, too.

      The 20 million by mid-late 2020s replaces the 15 million by 2025. It’s not in addition to.

      They’ve actually recalibrated the whole lot.

      Of course you knew this given you read and understand perfectly, know the best words, have the greatest brain, etc.

      Quickly: I’ve afford another angle of attack. You can now have a go about them changing the 15 million by 2025 target, though that does rather ruin the ranting about calculators, cigarette packets and the idea that the largest telco infrastructure builder in the country is staffed by nothing but morons while some random trolling the Internet for a decade and more knows so much more about, well, everything.

      Same guy who knew so much he thought native FTTP and FTTPoD were different architectures where one was point to point and the other PON.

    13. Avatar Fastman says:

      dumdum

      I never mentioned a specific altnet (there are specifically more alnets than the one in Lancashire you refer to) – so my questions remains what altnet and how much are they promising to build as you seem reluctant to divulge

    14. Avatar dumdum says:

      @CarlT “In the case of the next target those premises will take significantly longer and until they’ve conducted detailed analysis and planning they aren’t comfortable with a more specific timeline.”

      Oh so in other words they are quoting a figure which they have not even investigated is even possible yet. Same old story then.

      @fastman
      I have never even said im with an altnet you have assumed that (POINT TO WHERE i have satated that if you wish to challenge that remark). As i also stated My ISP does not make bold ass claims, so if they have made no claims on future or current affairs i can not quote what you want. Which ISP i am with also has nothing to do with BT claims.

    15. Avatar Fastman says:

      duddum –

      @fastman My ISP does not make bold ass claims they can not back up so you do not see meaningless statements or “goals” from them. Oh and NO its not B4RN so not attacking your and the BT hive minds fave altnet villian. LOL#

      either you isp is a consuming Openreach network or not – not really sure what point you trying to make or why you are trying to make it – perhaps your Service provider does not consume the product you want where you want it

    16. Avatar dumdum says:

      “either you isp is a consuming Openreach network or not – not really sure what point you trying to make or why you are trying to make it – perhaps your Service provider does not consume the product you want where you want it”

      So my Internet Service can not possibly be a Mobile provider or a Satellite provider. It has to be an Altnet or Openreach does it?

      Good, good, continue confirming your stupidity. Still waiting on where exactly i said i have a Altnet provider, never mind that i use any type of Hard wired fibre product.

      Perhaps that is why i can not answer your inane questions which you asked twice about my ISP because what you assume i use may well be wrong from the outset.

  5. Avatar dean says:

    News to try to plug the 7.2% stock decline and nothing more.

    1. Avatar dumdum says:

      ^^^ Oh someone else spotted it, i did not want to rub salt in.

    2. Avatar CarlT says:

      Given that news triggered the 7.2% stock decline that’s a kinda weird statement.

    3. Avatar dumdum says:

      This *cough* investment news came after the 7+% drop.

    4. Avatar Andrew Ferguson says:

      Email arrived in my inbox at 7:02am on 7th

      Stock market closed on Wednesday at 4:30pm and opened again at 8am with lower price, i.e. in between announcement and opening there was time for decisions to be made by holders/buyers thus affecting price at opening.

      Pointing out timing that is all.

    5. Avatar dumdum says:

      So you got the Q4 2019/20 (financial) results before the market closed???

    6. Avatar CarlT says:

      You’re aware that there’s premarket trading where trades execute as soon as the market opens, hence the initial immediate moves, and it’s perfectly legitimate for companies to make announcements outside of stock trading hours, right?

      The results release, including the plan to increase the FTTP numbers, were made available at 7am yesterday morning, with a conference call to discuss and go into further detail at 8am.

    7. Avatar GNewton says:

      @dumdum: You need to see the longterm share price development. For example, the BT Group – CLASS A has been in a longterm downward trend, from 500 in 2016 to below 100 now in 2020.

      BT has done a lot of things wrong over the past 2 decades, and its desperate attempts now to catch up with much needed fibre-investment (if their announcements are real and not fibre-to-the-press exercises) will probably come too late!

    8. Avatar CarlT says:

      @GNewton Actually they are getting punished for spending more on FTTP.

      Much as Verizon were when they started FiOS.

      If you look at Liberty Global over the last 4-5 years their shares have dropped heavily too.

      Contrary to what you may believe for better or worse many investors want the short term returns of dividends and minimal capital expenditure.

      FTTP may be all that matters in your opinion but enough investors aren’t fans that share price takes a hit.

    9. Avatar GNewton says:

      @CarlT: Good point, other telecom companies experienced similar issues.

      However, in the long run, investors stay away from a company which doesn’t have a proper long-term investment strategy. A business with insufficient investment into futureproof assets risks loosing business in the long-term.

      Also, nobody forces investors to buy BT shares, the long ongoing downward spiral has been a clear warning signal. BT is years behind of where it should be by now, thanks to its lack of vision and past Can’t Do cultures.

    10. Avatar CarlT says:

      Investors seemed perfectly happy to triple the BT share price between 2010 and 2015, well before FTTP became a priority.

      Pretty sure you were ranting about their can’t do attitude, how far behind the curve they were, etc, during this period.

      2015 onwards the stock has been dropping, since the EE merger pretty much, due to lower profits and higher debt. BT Sport and BT TV in general has been expensive, however it does seem odd that Virgin Media / O2 is apparently such a strong potential competitor and that’s fine, when they will have quad-play and loads of content.

      I can’t say BT investing in BT Sport overjoyed but I entirely see the point.

      The split between customers on FTTP now taking speeds above those available on FTTC justifies the BT policy to be perfectly honest.

      Shock and horror, people in BT know more about these things than I do. I’m a minion with an opinion but it’s only an educated one on a few subjects, all of this not being one.

    11. Avatar CarlT says:

      Addendum: Forgot the minor matter of the pension fund deficit in that lot, too. Having to fork out a few hundred million a year to plug that is hardly conducive to a roaring share price.

      Given the constraints they are under in terms of regulation this is about the right time for BT to be doing this. Had they the regulatory breaks that telcos elsewhere had things might be different.

    12. Avatar dumdum says:

      “You’re aware that there’s premarket trading where trades execute as soon as the market opens”

      He says he had the results on Wednesday before the market open and before it closed…. Impossible!

      If you have results before that there is something more dodgy than FTTP 20 Million figures they have not even investigated (ACCORDING to you) is even viable by 2030.

    13. Avatar CarlT says:

      He said ‘Email arrived in my inbox at 7:02am on 7th’

      The results were released at 7am on 7th.

      Between 7am and market opening trades were agreed based on this which took effect at market opening and brought the share price down.

      Trades can be agreed before opening of the exchange, they just can’t be executed.

      Nothing about advanced knowledge of them there.

    14. Avatar CarlT says:

      ‘If you have results before that there is something more dodgy than FTTP 20 Million figures they have not even investigated (ACCORDING to you) is even viable by 2030.’

      No. As var as the second target goes I said:

      ‘In the case of the next target those premises will take significantly longer and until they’ve conducted detailed analysis and planning they aren’t comfortable with a more specific timeline.’

      I didn’t say they hadn’t planned or analysed at all, just that they had more to do before providing a more specific timeline. Not least of which being a few years of building which may prove more or less difficult than expected.

      Obviously they’ve done some work and concluded it’s possible. While you may think everyone working at Openreach is a moron plucking figures out of the air and then a mad rush to rewrite results documents minutes before release it’s not the case.

      Had you had any kind of deeper exposure to them and the wider industry you’d hopefully have more respect for it. BT as a whole are a very conservative organisation as far as what they promise goes.

    15. Avatar CarlT says:

      Lastly if you think BT results were being released prematurely to some people you should really be contacting the FCA.

      https://www.fca.org.uk/markets/market-abuse

      Rather than writing about it on here.

      Such things may cost large shareholders millions and smaller ones their dividend income.

    16. Avatar GNewton says:

      @CarlT: “Much as Verizon were when they started FiOS.”

      You can’t compare Verizon with BT. For one thing, Verizon’s share have been slowly rising over the past ten years, from roughly 27 to 57 now. BT has no consumer product comparable to Verizon’s symmetric fibre. BT is many years behind with regards to fibre deployment.

      The question users ask here as to what BT has done all those long years is a valid one. Even shareholders have seen that this company made a number of bad decisions in the past, affecting both shareholders and consumers.

      Openreach should not have stayed as part of BT Group.

    17. Avatar dumdum says:

      “He said ‘Email arrived in my inbox at 7:02am on 7th’

      The results were released at 7am on 7th.”

      The UK Market opens at 8am NOT 7am, i fail to comprehend how you can not understand someone can not have the END results BEFORE hand.

      You can not answer what apart from the last 2 years in the last decade Openreach have done for the FTTP rollout despite them making bogus claims of figures they would reach dating back to 2009.

      You can not answer how Openreach know they can even deliver 20 Million premises by 2025-2030 when by your own admission they have not even conducted an “ANALYSIS” to see if 20 Million is even doable let alone by that time frame… but hey i see you have moved on from that lost battle.

      I love people like you…You best just carry on self isolating and worrying about that FUD also following our conversation last week about death totals waiting on your covid vaccine, gonna do you just as good as the flu one did last year…
      https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/30/winter-deaths-hit-highest-level-40-years-experts-blame-ineffective/
      Couldn’t blame China for those DEATH figures though and spread the fear to people that believe anything they are told be it killer viruses or FTTP rollouts it would seem.
      Hillarious

    18. Avatar CarlT says:

      Very kind of you to inform you love someone like me. I aim to please.

      I look forward to reading your complaint to the regulator regarding Andrew receiving BT’s results 2 minutes after their release.

      If you’ll excuse me on that note, entertaining as this has been. I am feeling myself getting dumber every time I reply and your comments are living up to your name.

      Time to get some work done, as sheeple like me do. I have other people’s bills to pay.

    19. Avatar CarlT says:

      @GNewton Verizon have basically stopped building FiOS, they’ve done very little outside of specific localities, sold part of the footprint and doubled down on mobile.

      Check what happened to their stock when they started building in anger rather than when they wound back and sold off perhaps.

    20. Avatar dumdum says:

      “Time to get some work done, as sheeple like me do. I have other people’s bills to pay.”

      Just to be clear on that point (before the posse of outrage moans) i did not refer to you as as sheep or as sheeple in this debate either. That comes as your own admission.

      I have no need to report BT for anything, they are doing a good enough job of making their company a worthless investment all on their own.

    21. Avatar dumdum says:

      “While you may think everyone working at Openreach is a moron plucking figures out of the air”

      Pretty much, here is where they claimed we would be by now…
      https://www.btplc.com/BTToday/NewsList/Gfastcomes/index.htm
      “Openreach plans a national rollout of ultrafast broadband to 12 million homes and businesses by 2020, and ten million will use G.fast.”

    22. Avatar CarlT says:

      No posse of outrage. People are far too busy laughing at you to be outraged by you.

      The point on the ultrafast numbers answered below. Another comprehension fail / reading what you want to rather than what is written.

  6. Avatar Rural broadband , 4g internet says:

    [admin note: removed spam]

    1. Avatar Ken says:

      “We provide totally unlimited data for as little as £1.45 per day”

      Since when is 1TB “unlimited”?

    2. Avatar The Facts says:

      £39.99 per month to use the usual way of quoting.

    3. Avatar Gary says:

      You name the product Surf Unlimited then add the Unlimited data* completing the farce with again using Unlimited but with Upto a fair use of 1TB.

      I suggest you get a dictionary and look up Unlimited. The word isn’t gradable, there aren’t levels of ‘unlimitedness’

      Shady advertising practices, have a word with yourself.

  7. Avatar James Band says:

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-bt/bt-scraps-dividend-invests-in-fibre-as-rivals-agree-merger-idUSKBN22J0O8

    All this “investment” in the network has yielded very little versus other countries. 15.4p dividend per share! Short termism without any of the genuine long term investment in the PRODUCT/logistcs of companies like Google, Amazon, Alibaba in their network. And still the share price of BT has fallen over the last few years.

    This sudden “change of heart” is down to a potential merger (that may or may not yield results for the consumer, that is yet to be seen) that may challenge their status.

    1. Avatar CarlT says:

      I really doubt they came up with these plans in the past few days. Far more likely they’ve had some reassuring noises from government.

      One thing they don’t do as a general rule is rush into things.

      Liberty Global are down nearly 2/3rds in the past five years. That the fault of BT’s investment profile too?

      The O2/VM merger doesn’t create a massive drive to go all-in on FTTP. VM and Openreach do not compete on speeds for the most part.

    2. Avatar A_Builder says:

      @James Band

      I’d agree with @CarlT that neither VM or BT rush descisions.

      Present circumstances will have accelerated and accentuated the outcome.

  8. Avatar Darrell says:

    They are a pack of liars we have had wires and box on pole outside for over 2 years still not to house

    1. Avatar Fastman says:

      Darrell – so have you actually checked whethrr you can Order FTTP. please note there – there a more not many providers that offer FTTP so its possible you can order it but not from your current provider if they do not offer FTTP. – what does the Openreach checker say about your premise – suggest you undertake my suggestions indicated and then advise what the outcome is

    2. Avatar Paul M says:

      Try Cerberus internet, one of the few who seem to actually take orders for fttp

    3. Avatar Fastman says:

      pAUL

      Try Cerberus internet, one of the few who seem to actually take orders for fttp

      They supply a fibre on Demand product (like a bespoke leased line) that is no Native FTTP (that you could can buy from standard ftp provider)

  9. Avatar Martin Bingle says:

    Open Reach have upgraded the super SLOW broadband in the GL115DJ area to 7Mbps which is so fast for us, but pathetic when there is a fibre cable 5 metres away on the other side of a road but they will not connect us to it.

    1. Avatar The Facts says:

      Not as simple as that.

    2. Avatar Fastman says:

      I assume you are referring the new site that is not Openreach FTTP (no openreach network in it)

      unbelievable

  10. Avatar Pezza says:

    I did see people asking the government to scrap HS2 and new roads to invest more in the UKs fibre broadband infrastructure, due to how most people are managing to work from home during this lockdown. I of course totally agree. I doubt Bojo does though..

    Maybe I’ll have fibre to my home if I don’t move before 2026…

    1. Avatar Gary says:

      Efficient mass transit is vital to the Green agenda, While HS2 has imho some large flaws people saying we shouldnt have a modern rail link or road improvements because some people can work from home is more than a little narrow minded.

    2. Avatar Pezza says:

      @Gary nope your the incredibly narrow minded one, you believe in spending more then 110 billion sterling of the public’s money for no gain is a good thing. Video conferencing works, it’s pointless wasting money on a single train track adding polluting into the atmosphere.
      Efficient mass transit eh? And how is a single train track going to achieve that then? I mean you pointed out HS2 from my comment. We can easily improve the existing road infrastructure we already have, all we need is better communications technology across the country, it’s also incredibly naive arrogant and hypocritical to claim we need ‘mass transit’ to fit the green agenda, as it’s the total opposite of that.

    3. Avatar Fastman says:

      pezza

      I will educate you about HS2 as you seem to know very little of the facts

      HS2 has 3 objectives (if built with 1 and 1A) has 3 main objectives – Phase 1 opens op the London , west midlands area first of all (increases capacity between London and Birmingham by current route, Phase 1A which extends to crewe (massive increases capacity between London and Crewe which is the main Freight corridor of the UK, – by routing trains by HS1 and 1A (both opening close to each other – increases freight path, allows more commuter train would enable some station reopeing and move thousand of lorries off the M6 and M1 as these would be able to be transferred to rail (they cannot be at present as there are no daytime spare freight paths normally between London and crewe – this is why Railfreight Group are in favour of HS2

      it also reduces journey times from north west and Scotland to London by more than an Hour (this could also massive decrease the amount of internal air flights required in the UK

    4. Avatar 125us says:

      That won’t work Pezza. HS2 is utterly essential, and I say that as someone who works in the telcoms industry. HS2’s purpose is to increase the amount of capacity between the north and the south on the existing routes. It does that by taking away high speed trains thus allowing better use of the space on those routes. Just like with cars, train braking distance increases with speed. HS2 is the quickest, cheapest and least disruptive method to achieve that extra capacity.

      Without it, we’ll have to build more motorways to handle the movement of goods. Fabulous though broadband is, it’s not yet very good at moving dishwashers and lawnmowers. If you think HS2 is expensive it is pennies compared to the cost of a new north/south motorway.

    5. Avatar gary says:

      Pezza, So from the thrust of your comments HS2 is a commuter line only ? No tourists or other travellers ? And yes cheap efficient mass transit is very much part of the Greener way of life, You call me naieve arrogant and Hypocritical ! I’ll just not reply as i’ve nothing Civil to repond to that with.

      I said HS2 had Imho flaws and it does but our entire transit system is flawed if we’re looking forwards to lower carbon life,Yes HS2 is one line and its a massive cost but it alone is nowhere near what we need to build If we are to really reduce the waste that personal transport produces.
      Our road network is mostly based on long existing routes which are niether the most direct nor free flowing enough to make the most of the eco benefits of modern fossil vehicles never mind to help optimise the battrylife of EV’s, cobbling together road improvements isnt going to improve that much. Unfortunately building whats really required would entail massive compulsory purchase and demolition.

    6. Avatar Gavin says:

      @125us

      HS2 isn’t essential. It’s people from London thinking everything as to be focused there. We’re supposed to be creating a ‘northern powerhouse’. Yet the London-centric mind set is once again dragging us back to the south.

      To increase cargo capacity on trains we can reduce the amount of people travelling on those tracks so increasing the capacity to carry cargo.

      Technology seems to never fulfil its potential because people are still stuck in old ways of thinking.

    7. Avatar gary says:

      Gavin,You’re right HS2 is not essential. Nor is better internet. We can survive without either.

      But to increase the capacity for Cargo on those tracks its the number of passenger trains we need to reduce not the number of passengers. Mass transit is most efficient when fully utilised and unfortunately if you increase homeworking removing those who can from the commute, then trains become less utilised and less efficient per passenger. Of course then people say reduce the timetable + services, but that then discourages people from using it as its not as convenient or even suitable.

      Like you say, trying to do the same things the same way we always have but Greener doesn’t really work, or at least offsets the benefits.
      Almost globally life, working patterns and behaviour are stuck in the Industrial revolution/Factory mentality of monday to friday commute to work 9 to 5, maybe this Event will the thing to help break free of that.

      Of course it seems some like Pezza choose to ignore the fact that Home working isnt possible or the right way for many industries to operate, and better data connectivity isnt going to resolve that.

      A fair chunk of my time is software/configuration related, and sure i could in theory do that remotely, but i cant change connections or dip switchess or replace hardware over the internet. I cant Install the equipment i’m then going to configure over the phone.

    8. Avatar Gavin says:

      @gary

      I hear what you’re saying and you make good points.

      It would be interesting if a study was done to see how many jobs can be done remotely vs those that need a regular physical presense.

    9. Avatar Pezza says:

      Sorry I don’t buy the argument still, the amount of land that will be cut up and destroyed for the train track is going have an ecological impact, plus more and more cars are now electric, so that flows any future carbon argument out the water, remember HS2 won’t be ready for several years, and isn’t it 2025 when they will ban sales of combustion engine cars? Before HS2 will be anywhere near ready. So it’s a flawed argument, they you would have to argue about new roads, again what is HS2 going to do? Carve up the land as much as any new roads will..
      They are flawed arguments, you could upgrade the entire network much much much more easily for a lot less to improve your cargo capacity, cargo will will only run on any HS2 line at night.

      And I’d beg to differ, fibre broadband IS essential, it is a required service to have modern communications, so you argue 5G is necessary? If so why? I mean it’s the same argument, with the new world you are now in home working is essential and will be for a long time, mis you can happily continue your other work using that thing called ‘commons sense’ and keep social distancing measures in place. Wear a face mask. Lots of people have been happily doing this throughout the pandemic.
      I think a lot of the thinking behind HS2 is the London bubble mentality which doesn’t work and hasn’t done for a long time, it’s the same as Americans who believe what entire world spins around them. No, doesn’t work like that.
      You need to forget about your economy and money when a global threat occurs.. especially wasting so much that will serve so few when you could a vast amount less to serve the many.

    10. Avatar JamesBand says:

      @Fastman

      Both rail and broadband are important. HOWEVER what is plainly apparent if Britain benchmarks itself against South Korea, Japan, China, Singapore for things like RAILWAYS or against South Korea, Singapore, Lithuania, Estonia, Portugal for broadband is that we are clearly lagging and not investing right.

      In Japan for instance, there is GENUINE competition in a free market with multiple train operators running along routes. You do NOT get regional monopolies of one company effectively being the ONLY service on a line and operating a 1970s train. If Britain wants a proper modern day electric train network, that £110 billion could/should be used to convert all preexisting tracks into dual track elevated railway lines (look at how Japan and China do this on various Youtube videos). And buy brand new high speed trains on each line. The DEMAND is there already. There are lines in the East of England or South West where you get infrequent trains (e.g. once an hour) where trains are jam packed and people would kill for a regular (e.g. once every 10 minutes) service, or at least a twice hourly bullet train.

      Imagine the business/consumer benefits if we had electric trains nationwide running at bullet train speeds. The mainline North-South routes should also be upgraded to the 21st century and not remain stuck in the 1980s. If you have at least 3 train operators per route, then that will encourage competition. No doubt the HS2 in theory is great, but to just not do a damn thing about the pre-existing tracks (on the same route as well) seems ridiculous.

      As far as broadband goes, the UK clearly lags other countries on Full Fibre FTTP according to that OECD report (we are behind Lithuania, Portugal etc). Surely it should be compulsory that EVERY single household that currently has a copper line must have Fibre, instead of selective rollouts. If it is made mandatory to install Fibre internet (NOT FTTC, but actual FTTP) to every property, with a partial subsidy if required (e.g. tax break for builders to do it), then like the Wind Industry in the UK, it will be made profitable.

  11. Avatar Paul M says:

    Anecdotally there’s capacity shortages for FTTC suggesting that all these people stuck at home have been upgrading their connections from adsl to vdsl/fttc, so this might be a time of windfall for bt with a surge in revenue. Maybe too a peak in demand for fttp.

    1. Avatar A_Builder says:

      It will be interesting people are upgrading to faster connections.

      WFH May also spur businesses to pay for faster connections. ADSL doesn’t really support video calls well. Low bandwidth FTTC will struggle with a house full of parents working and kids streaming.

      So as I commented on another thread when this started the lockdown will accelerate change.

      When you are stuck at home and the thing driving you mad is you internet connection you are going to be focussed on fixing that.

      The only thing that makes me a tiny bit dubious about this is that the change from ADSL -> FTTC usually requires an engineer visit to change the faceplate? May be out of date on that.

      However, I can easily believe that people upgrading to higher tiers of FTTC in very large numbers. And that would be interesting and would drive the investment case for FTTP.

      I’m willing to bet that booked FTTP & GFAST installs will be through the roof when they can restart.

    2. Avatar Andrew Ferguson says:

      “The only thing that makes me a tiny bit dubious about this is that the change from ADSL -> FTTC usually requires an engineer visit to change the faceplate? May be out of date on that.”

      You are very out of date on that, engineer installs for FTTC went away some years ago.

      Still relevant for Gfast and FTTP

      As for through the roof, be cautious since there will be a natural backlog, plus pricing had changed earlier in 2020 encouraging take-up. So would only say through the roof if take-up is seen to spike over a 6 or more month period.

      Loss of job for a large number will make them wary of spending any more on broadband and others with reduced income will be wary too.

    3. Avatar A_Builder says:

      @AF

      Thanks for putting me right on installs. Haven’t been involved in new FTTC connections for a few years now.

      I agree with you but I counterbalance the argument with employers like us that have offer to pay the difference to upgrade connections.

      Talking to other fellow business owners we are not alone. We realise that crappy connection waste employee time and cause frustration. It is a tiny price to pay to make everyone’s life a tiny bit better. And telling the kids to stop streaming isn’t always the answer for a happy house.

      I’ll be pleased and unsurprised to see a big uptick in FTTP connections as a result of this.

    4. Avatar joe says:

      Of course A’s point is correct but it does result in a lot of substandard setups not being fixed now. Still fttp removes that copper mess from being an issue so in the long run it matters not…

    5. Avatar A_Builder says:

      And I’m sure @AF will give us some nice stats that either prove or disprove my point in a few months time!

  12. Avatar Charlie Brooks says:

    Hopefully my parents will get FTTP soon as they have been stuck on ADSL as Openreach have been planning FTTC since 2018 with no sign of upgrade work being done this is despite living in a housing estate of over 500 houses

    1. Avatar Fastman says:

      perhaps they should have asked their house builder what they decided about broadbands when they registered the new site with openreach (I assume they live on a recent development

  13. Avatar Charlie Brooks says:

    Fast man- The houses are not a new development the houses were built in the early 70s so a long time before broadband was thought about.

    They have tried the local council to see if they can provide grants or put pressure on Openreach but are not able to do anything as the area does have Virgin Media but understandably this is over subscribed as so many people are on it.

    So the choices are around 7-10Mbps downstream and 2.8Mbps Upload on Openreach based network with choice of suppliers or go back to Virgin and pay for the speeds you are not getting.

    My parents and lots of locals thought this was finally over when the checker changed to FTTC planned in 2018 but then nothing has happened since.

    I can see there are posts from other people in the area on here too and even BT and Sky staff are embarrassed when they ring with offers then realise that they can’t have deals as FTTC is not available. The annoying thing is they are only 17metres from the PCP so when FTTC comes should get good speed and maybe even G Fast they just hope with this announcement that they decide just to do FTTP instead now

    1. Avatar Fastman says:

      Charlie

      interesting that area wont be covered by Government as already claimed as superfast by Virgin media (was defined as a Black Postcode so not part of intervention area. so you want openreach to rock up and better fund the area at significant cost to openreach on an area that is alredy 100% covered by Virgin media because you don’t get the speed you think you should have from virgin media. – and this is openreach fault because ?

    2. Avatar The Facts says:

      ‘understandably this is over subscribed as so many people are on it.’

      Please explain.

    3. Avatar RR says:

      @Charlie Brooks – They did something in 2018 with the checker and like your parents suddenly FTTC stats and “planned” in the availability date appeared. I dont think it means anything, we had the same and still do and we had FTTP installed last month.

    4. Avatar GNewton says:

      “‘understandably this is over subscribed as so many people are on it.’

      Please explain.”

      Please explain what you don’t understand here!

    5. Avatar CarlT says:

      I imagine the query is why it’s understandable that high take up would naturally lead to congestion.

      You have high take up you provision capacity to accommodate it. VM don’t capacity plan based on number of devices but channel utilisation. They’ve not kept ahead of demand in this instance.

      Either way if everyone on a development rather than 30-40% take VM services that’s no reason for congestion. VM should split the area into 3 nodal areas up keep the bandwidth per customer acceptable and peak load reasonable.

    6. Avatar The Facts says:

      @GN – it’s clear.

      xxx

    7. Avatar GNewton says:

      “– it’s clear.”

      Rather than posting silly questions, how about telling us why you think it wasn’t clear to you? Especially, when everyone else understood what the original poster meant!

  14. Avatar SymetricalAccess says:

    Great news, but, are lines already with FTTC and G.Fast enabled at the back of the queue still for FTTP? G.Fast is enabled but only about 10 lines out of 600 can order it. FTTP can’t come soon enough.

  15. Avatar Charlie Brooks says:

    FastMan- Personally I feel that Openreach should upgrade the area as they inherited the network from GPO government controlled days and that my parents should have a choice of provider for Broadband that is suitable for modern day needs. It’s not like the area is a rural area with long lines the exchange is only just over a mile away with a number of street cabinets to feed the estate. As I said previously I just hope that at some point Openreach will decide to upgrade the area or that CityFibre install their network. Going back to my original comment if and when Openreach do provide an upgrade will that likely be to FTTC/GFast or will they just jump straight to FTTP ?

    With regards to Virgin Media they have done their best and I have been told have a split the network segments down but as it’s a middle class area lots of customers on higher packages with 4-5 bedroom houses with kids so heavy users and also a number of small business run from home. VM also restrict the amount of customers that can have the top 500Mbps package

    The last time my parents had speed issues so severe VM sent a senior engineer out as well as network guy as people keep getting frequent issues, I was told that when VM built their network in the area in the 90s they never thought that Openreach would not upgrade their network over time so it was not designed for such take up hence why they have had to add more cabinets, the network guy said he thought VM FTTP would be the best way forward for the area but didn’t think the higher management would sign it off as would be so costly

    1. Avatar Gadget says:

      So using the choice of provider argument not just your parents but everyone ought to have that choice – so you’ll also be asking Virgin to expand their footprint to 100% of the country as well?

      Let’s also be clear that the Government sold the GPO to private ownership at a price they selected several decades ago, and from then on BT maintained, expanded and improved the network – there was no inheritance only sale.

      BT and subsequently Openreach decided it was not commercial to enable your parent’s estate as a business decision, and as others have posted in many threads in the last couple of years regarding similar areas, if the desire by the community was so great they could have entered into a Community Fibre Partnership with Openreach to bring faster broadband to the estate.

    2. Avatar Roger_Gooner says:

      Whether VM would replace HFC with FTTP (a first I believe) or as CarlT suggested do node splits would cost money. In any case this should be resolved within 19 months as VM has announced that the whole of its network will be upgraded to offer Gig1 by the end of 2021 which should deliver near gigabit speeds to the hub 4.

    3. Avatar dumdum says:

      “and from then on BT maintained, expanded and improved the network – there was no inheritance only sale.”

      Except for the billions the government gave them for the now it would seem outdated FTTC they want to replace with 20 Million FTTP…. NO doubt this SELF MAINTAINED organisation will come sniffing for more of the publics hard earned.

      Pathetic.

    4. Avatar The Facts says:

      @dumdum – look up gain share and clawback.

    5. Avatar dumdum says:

      They have paid back their Millions of tax payer FTTC funding already have they?

    6. Avatar GNewton says:

      BT never had a need for taxpayer’s money in the first place, it’s a commercial business. Instead, it behaved like a poor beggar, with its past Can’t Do culture.

    7. Avatar CarlT says:

      BT indeed didn’t have a need for the cash, but government didn’t want to wait for the commercial deployments so subsidies were paid to speed things along.

      That and some edge areas that wouldn’t have seen anything better than ADSL for a really long time.

    8. Avatar alex says:

      No they are correct it was a ‘begging bowl’ BT applied for the money and it was granted.

      A homeless person selling the big issue earns their money, one with a sign sitting on its backside asking for money is a begger. BT begged, altnets and VM just got on with it.

  16. Avatar Roger_Gooner says:

    Should read “deliver near gigabit speeds out of the hub 4”.

  17. Avatar Charlie Brooks says:

    Gadget- Thank You for your input as you seem to be very up on this subject do you think that in the next few years my parents will get FTTC or will it jump straight to FTTP. On a side note a person in their street runs a business from home so did ask about FTTPOD but was told as there was no aggregation node in what would be deemed a quotable distance and had similar responses about leased lines

  18. Avatar Aimee says:

    The commercial G.fast roll-out has now largely ground to a halt following Openreach’s recent review (here), which means their future focus is now almost entirely on full fibre lines.

    Which loosely translates to ‘oh dear yet another failure in trying to propagate radio waves down wires, best get on and do the job properly before we get found out’

    1. Avatar dumdum says:

      And translates to….. ‘oh no that G.Fast cost us quite a bit and we could not get a handout like we did for FTTC, so lets move on to FTTP and try again to get help with that if we AGAIN quote over inflated numbers and “goals”‘

    2. Avatar Fastman says:

      dumdum – I assume you deliberately antagonistic for the sake of it without actually any factual knowledge of the situation (Id think you are someone else in disguise)

      you carry on spouting rubbish and disinformation and Openreach will continue building a fibre network (as part of it own commercial case)

    3. Avatar A_Builder says:

      @dumdum – apt name by the way.

      I’ll translate that for you.

      GFast didn’t get the commercial interest that we have found FTTP getting, We also found that FTTP was more reliable and gave a better user experience – this saved us OPEX costs. The penny finally dropped that FTTP was future proof”

      There FIFY

      I’m not a supporter of BT’s overlong attachment to copper but they are now, belatedly, doing the right thing.

      The big outfit underinvesting ATM is VM.

    4. Avatar dumdum says:

      Nah…
      https://www.btplc.com/BTToday/NewsList/Gfastcomes/index.htm
      “Openreach plans a national rollout of ultrafast broadband to 12 million homes and businesses by 2020, and ten million will use G.fast.”

      A DOUBLE figures FAIL in a single short sentence.

      Not even done half that GFAST quoted figure and less than 25% of the FTTP one.

      BT targets “Free BS with every one”

      Hilarity.

    5. Avatar Roger_Gooner says:

      @A_Builder
      “The big outfit underinvesting ATM is VM.”
      I don’t look at VM’s build as underinvesting, more a case of Project Lightning being too ambitious. It’s obvious that the target of 4m premises by the end of 2020 is wholly unachievable but if the build in the last three quarters of 2020 can approach that of the similar period in 2019 (not that easy with coronavirus) VM should get to 2.4m-2.5m by this year-end. This is now a project that will continue for a few more years.

      On a related note VM has announced that its whole network will be upgraded to DOCSIS 3.1 and Gig1 by end-2021.

    6. Avatar dumdum says:

      Both BT and VM seem to wildly just pluck figures for a rollout of any tech they have planned out of thin air.

      The only difference seems to be when VM realise they can not deliver (at least with their original Project Lightning numbers) they own up to the fact and then revise their figures, where as BT just spout dribble after dribble after dribble, no admission when they fail just straight on to the next round of fantasy bingo.

      Both organisations are as artificial as fake tan when it comes to rollout figures, but at least VM even if it is just to a tiny degree have some resemblance of guts (i would not go as far as honesty) to admit they failed a “goal”.

    7. Avatar Sunil Sood says:

      @dumdum

      A quick search shows that as part of the switch to focus on increasing FTTP, BT announced it had lowered its 2020 g.fast coverage target from 10million to 5.7 million in 2018 and then to 2.7 million (2019).

      https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/08/openreach-to-scale-back-rollout-of-g-fast-broadband-focus-on-fttp.html

      https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2019/09/openreach-put-the-brakes-on-future-uk-g-fast-broadband-plans.html

    8. Avatar CarlT says:

      Living up to the name again dumdum.

      ‘Openreach plans a national rollout of ultrafast broadband to 12 million homes and businesses by 2020, and ten million will use G.fast.’

      That was 12 million ultrafast, >100Mb, including 10 million via G.fast.

      I may be one of the sheeple self-isolating at home, scared of flu, worshipping BT, etc, but at least I can comprehend our language. You either cannot or are so desperate to find things to critique you simply read whatever you want to rather than what is written.

      I welcome Openreach abandoning G.fast in favour of FTTP. It’s way more expensive and takes far longer, hence the numbers, but is a good move.

      Still if you’ve nothing better to do than blithely criticise I suppose you get your kicks where you can.

    9. Avatar alex says:

      “I may be one of the sheeple self-isolating at home, scared of flu, worshipping BT, etc, but at least I can comprehend our language.”

      Obviously not you were told yesterday by your mighter leader to get back to work and have limitless time to exercise.

      The new slogan is now obviously… Stay Safe, Stay Home, protect the NHS by Going out for limitless exercise and go to work.

      “Sheeple” may indeed now be the right term for people that believed the nonsense and clapped like sea lions.

      Poster is also right those links show nicely hw BT change so called goals each year and that they failed another goal in their G.Fast rollout. You can insult someones misunderstanding all you wish, (They have the bit in the statement about FTTP wrong) but if you can not see the lies from the start that indeed may make you a sheep when it comes to anything.

      Bahhhhh, bahhhhh, clap clap, arhk, athk athk

    10. Avatar Sunil Sood says:

      @Alex

      I’m not sure if you’re referring to me getting the bit about FTTP wrong but as Openreach reduced its g.fast rollout, it did increase its FTTP rollout plans.

      From 2m to 3m and then 4m in 2021 and to 10m, then 15m by 2025 etc.

    11. Avatar paulk says:

      If you can not understand the point BT targets are meaningless and a particular target (no matter what it was for, FTTC FTTP or G.Fast) has gone from 12 Million to 5.7 Million to 2.7 Million (or roughly halved almost every year) and would rather attack a poster for partially misreading the statement then i wish you would believe a bit more of the nonsense told by media releases and socially distance yourself more than 2 metres away from here.

      There is no point having aspirations in life, let alone announce it to the world if you constantly lower your aspirations. Doing so just means you keep lowering the aspiration until its so low, that rather than an aspiration it was something you could do without even really trying in the first place. That probably explains why BT are where they are today though. IE Not worth a penny.

    12. Avatar alex says:

      @Sunil
      “I’m not sure if you’re referring to me getting the bit about FTTP wrong”

      No dumdum misready the statement on BTs site he pointed to about FTTP figures.

      The gist of his rant is right though be it a figure that increases year on year or decreases year on year (for whatever tech) if you do not meet those figures year on year it makes quoting things you are going to do meaningless.

      BT never met the original FTTP “aims” or the original G.Fast “aims” or the original FTTPoD aims now i think about it.

      I am also pretty sure at some point i read (would have to search so could be wrong) something about over “aiming” 90%+ FTTC. Have they even delivered that yet?

    13. Avatar dumdum says:

      “Still if you’ve nothing better to do than blithely criticise I suppose you get your kicks where you can.”

      I am allowed to get my kicks for one hour a day, its my daily exercise, mandated to protect you from the virus. baaa baaa baaa

    14. Avatar GNewton says:

      “BT never met the original FTTP “aims” or the original G.Fast “aims” or the original FTTPoD aims now i think about it.”

      I don’t know of anyone who’s lately been able to get a FTTPoD in a timely manner, the whole process usually takes 6 to 12 months, or even longer on occasion. FTTPoD also is quite a crippled product anyway, with most ISPs limiting it to no more than a 30Mbps upload speed. And it many case is is hopelessly overpriced, to the point where it often makes more sense to instead bundle multiple VDSL lines (if Openreach is able to provide enough copper lines, madness really), or to get long-distance wireless links (incl. 4G etc), or to go with non-Openreach leased lines.

  19. Avatar Sunil Sood says:

    @Alex

    BT originally said they would cover 2 million premises with FTTP by March 2021.

    As the article above says, they have already covered 2.6 million and are on target for meeting their revised 4 million target.

    As I understand it, coverage of 24MB+ speeds is over 95% in the UK

  20. Avatar dumdum says:

    “BT originally said they would cover 2 million premises with FTTP by March 2021.”

    Errr no…
    https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2013/04/bt-abandons-native-uk-fttp-broadband-rollout-for-fttpod-and-fttc.html

    That was what they “””originally said””” They are over 10 years late.

    1. Avatar Sunil Sood says:

      I can’t work out of you’re being deliberately obtuse but the decision was taken to concentrate on increasing coverage more quickly via FTTC then concentrating on what would have been a much slower FTTP build – meeting the demands of the vast majority of their customers

      I’m sure that those who now have FTTC and would otherwise still be on ADSL are grateful for the decision plus there is the fact that a lot of the current fibre infrastructure can be reused in FTTP

      As the article you linked to states, BT announced the change in their strategy.. which contradicts your claim that BT don’t announce changes in targets or their plans.

    2. Avatar Grazza says:

      You are deliberately mixing apples with pears you numb nuts.

      You do not seem to have a grasp of the industry whomever you are championing. In fact I don’t think you have a good grasp on reality. Keep taking the medication

    3. Avatar Fastman says:

      dumdum

      you unbeilvable and certainly not worth responding to any further I neither interested or bothered on your opinion or interest frankly

      Im all for healthy and robust debate on this forum but you clearly have an axe to grind about something you actually know nothing about – which is frankly quite amusing – I also have a day job to do In this industry so I get back to it

    4. Avatar alex says:

      He was not even speaking to you in this part of the thread fastman.

      If you think someone is not worth responding to any further why did you not only carry on doing so, when the part of the conversation involved did not even include you in it. But also after giving your “worth” assessment of the person you continue typing another paragraph and a half in response.

      As for having a “day” job in the industry you were eager to get back to, that would be believable if it were not neigh on 11PM when you decided to declare your latest outrage.

      The funniest thing is how you and a couple of others decided to initialise the personal attacks (it was not him that started it) against a poster and all because you dislike his opinion on an organisation. Awww didums

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

Comments RSS Feed

Javascript must be enabled to post (most browsers do this automatically)

Privacy Notice: Please note that news comments are anonymous, which means that we do NOT require you to enter any real personal details to post a message. By clicking to submit a post you agree to storing your comment content, display name, IP, email and / or website details in our database, for as long as the post remains live.

Only the submitted name and comment will be displayed in public, while the rest will be kept private (we will never share this outside of ISPreview, regardless of whether the data is real or fake). This comment system uses submitted IP, email and website address data to spot abuse and spammers. All data is transferred via an encrypted (https secure) session.

NOTE 1: Sometimes your comment might not appear immediately due to site cache (this is cleared every few hours) or it may be caught by automated moderation / anti-spam.

NOTE 2: Comments that break our rules, spam, troll or post via known fake IP/proxy servers may be blocked or removed.
Cheapest Superfast ISPs
  • Vodafone £22.00
    Avg. Speed 35Mbps, Unlimited
    Gift: None
  • Hyperoptic £22.00
    Avg. Speed 50Mbps, Unlimited
    Gift: None
  • Onestream £22.49 (*29.99)
    Avg. Speed 45Mbps, Unlimited
    Gift: None
  • xln telecom £22.74 (*47.94)
    Avg. Speed 66Mbps, Unlimited
    Gift: None
  • Plusnet £22.99 (*36.52)
    Avg. Speed 36Mbps, Unlimited
    Gift: £55 Reward Card
Prices inc. Line Rental | View All
The Top 20 Category Tags
  1. FTTP (2817)
  2. BT (2793)
  3. FTTC (1792)
  4. Building Digital UK (1760)
  5. Politics (1689)
  6. Openreach (1642)
  7. Business (1456)
  8. FTTH (1341)
  9. Mobile Broadband (1253)
  10. Statistics (1252)
  11. 4G (1079)
  12. Fibre Optic (1072)
  13. Wireless Internet (1036)
  14. Ofcom Regulation (1028)
  15. Virgin Media (1019)
  16. EE (710)
  17. Vodafone (681)
  18. Sky Broadband (675)
  19. TalkTalk (673)
  20. 5G (536)
Promotion
Helpful ISP Guides and Tips
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
Sponsored

Copyright © 1999 to Present - ISPreview.co.uk - All Rights Reserved - Terms , Privacy and Cookie Policy , Links , Website Rules , Contact