BT See Loss of 169k Openreach UK Broadband Lines and Appoints New CFO
Telecoms giant BT Group just published a short trading update to the end June 2025 (Q1 FY26), which reveals that Openreach lost another 169,000 total broadband lines to rival networks over the past quarter (down from 243k in the previous quarter). But they also saw their “full fibre” (FTTP) coverage grow to over 19 million premises (up by 1m) and take-up increased to 37% (up from 36.13%).
Firstly, our usual reminder that the BT Group now only publishes a short trading update during calendar Q1 and Q3, thus we only get a very limited summary this time around – the full half-yearly reports come in Q2 and Q4. As such, we’ve opted to do a similarly brief update on the key details below.
In terms of the other headline changes, BT today announced that Simon Lowth will retire as their Group CFO, with Patricia Cobian appointed as successor. Patricia is currently still Virgin Media and O2’s (VMO2) chief financial officer (since 2021), but has now been poached by the BT Group. She will thus join the BT Group Board and its Executive Committee in the summer of next year (2026).
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Otherwise, on those broadband line losses, at the start of 2025 Openreach noted that around 80% of those had come from areas where they haven’t yet deployed their new FTTP network (i.e. copper-based ADSL and hybrid fibre FTTC broadband and phone-only lines). This underlines the importance of Openreach’s rapid roll-out, but it also highlights the importance of a first-mover advantage for altnets in targeting those areas.
However, despite the negatives, BT’s CEO can probably still feel reasonably confident of the operator’s direction, particularly after having somewhat succeeded in getting the stock market to better recognise the value of the fibre they now have in the ground (here and here). The group’s share price has gone from around 140p in January 2025 to around 200p this morning.
Nevertheless, there’s still a long way to go, and many uncertainties remain about how today’s market will evolve over the next few years, particularly with respect to consolidation. But the relative fibre build stagnation among many altnets and Virgin Media’s (O2) unexpected build slowdown (here) does tend to give BT more of an edge than they’ve had for a while.
BT’s CEO, Allison Kirkby, said:
“BT has had a solid start to the year, with our full fibre broadband now reaching more than 19 million homes and businesses and our 5G network available to over 87% of the UK population. We’re seeing strong customer demand for our next-generation broadband and mobile connectivity across all our brands, with record Openreach fibre take-up again this quarter. And we’re delivering on our transformation, as we radically simplify our business while improving customer experience.
BT is investing more than anyone else in the nation’s networks, we’re connecting customers faster, and we’re on track to deliver our targets for this year, next year, and the end of the decade – creating a better BT, for all of us.”
As usual, it’s worth contrasting the latest results against BT’s future targets for 2030, which among other things have predicted that their total labour force would shrink to between 75,000 and 90,000 (i.e. many of the engineers they have today won’t be needed post-2030) and FTTP coverage would grow to between 25-30 million premises, while delivering take-up of around 40-55% (this will grow even faster once the roll-out pace slows).
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BT also holds a target of 13.0-14.5 million retail 5G mobile connections via EE, and today’s update reports that they’ve already reached 13.5m, up 12% year-on-year.
BT Group’s June 2025 Performance Summary
➤ More than 1m premises passed with FTTP for a sixth consecutive quarter, at an average build rate of 81k per week, on track to achieve up to 5m this fiscal year; FTTP footprint reached more than 19m premises, of which 5.2m in rural locations
➤ Record customer demand for Openreach FTTP with net adds up 46% year-on-year to 566k; total premises connected 7.1m, increasing our market-leading take up rate to 37%; Hyperoptic has entered into a wholesale agreement with Openreach, further extending its national footprint; Openreach broadband ARPU up 4% to £16.6, driven by higher FTTP take-up, speed mix and price increases
➤ Openreach broadband lines fell by 169k, driven by losses to competitors and a weaker broadband market; our full year expectation remains unchanged from that given in May
➤ Retail FTTP base grew by 32% year-on-year to 3.7m of which Consumer 3.4m and Business 0.3m; 5G base reached 13.5m, up 12% year-on-year
➤ Consumer customer base grew in the quarter, with broadband base up 11k and postpaid mobile base up 41k; Consumer broadband ARPU2 down 2% year-on-year to £41.9 and postpaid mobile ARPU2 of £19.4 broadly flat year-on-year, and we continue to expect a similar seasonal growth pattern as FY25; Consumer fixed and mobile convergence grew to 25.5% from 24.6% last quarter; EE proud to be sponsors of the Lionesses as they head towards the UEFA Euro 2025 final
➤ Business adjusted UK service revenue down 2%, stable excluding traditional voice; EBITDA pressure was mainly in the international segment; Business will be reported as two separate customer-facing units from Q2 FY26 for our UK and International operations
➤ Cost transformation delivered efficiencies across all units, fully offsetting higher employer costs of National Living Wage and National Insurance: year-on-year energy usage in our networks was down 5%, total labour resource was down 5% to 113k and Openreach repair volumes were down 14%
➤ BT Group NPS of 30.4, up 5.6pts year-on-year, with improved customer experience across all our customer facing units
On track to achieve full year guidance:
➤ Reported and adjusted revenue1 £4.9bn, down 3% year-on-year mainly due to weaker handset sales in Consumer and continued challenging international trading, offsetting the benefit of FTTP growth in Openreach and price increases; Adjusted UK service revenue1 £3.9bn, down 1%, largely due to the seasonal impact of price changes in Consumer and traditional voice in Business
➤ Adjusted EBITDA1 £2.1bn, down 1% with adverse revenue offset by strong cost transformation
➤ Reported profit before tax of £468m, down 10% primarily due to an increase in net finance costs and depreciation and amortisation
Mark is a professional technology writer, IT consultant and computer engineer from Dorset (England), he also founded ISPreview in 1999 and enjoys analysing the latest telecoms and broadband developments. Find me on X (Twitter), Mastodon, Facebook, BlueSky, Threads.net and Linkedin.
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I don’t think Openreach is the ISP.
Many of these lines will be those from Sky that will be migrating to CityFibre, of which a good proportion will have been ADSL/VDSL services.
It is also of note that BT has joined KCOM in achieving a sustainable profit model on its broadband operation.
Sky has been experiencing bad churn since start of 2024. Sky were losing 12-15k bb customers (net) week on week at its worst.
Miscalculated price increase. Sky also use ‘personalised’ pricing using a metric to calculate if a household has more disposable income.
Sky losing to altnets is correct. They are still losing more customers than they gain every week.
‘Many of these lines will be those from Sky that will be migrating to CityFibre, of which a good proportion will have been ADSL/VDSL services.’
Doubtful. Only started in pilot in June with partial coverage of the CityFibre footprint. Zero evidence of a mass migration program. Incredibly unlikely that out of that 169k losses many were Sky, steadily losing customers, copper customers upgrading to FTTP in the sub-3.5 million premises passed footprint it’s available in the less than a month the product moved from trial to pilot.
Far more likely a continuation of the previous quarter.
No idea what you mean by a sustainable profit model on the broadband operation.
This is excellent news. BT is in decline in residential market where they deserve to be for providing stodgy legacy technologies for years, even on their current GPON FTTP roll out, whilst pioneering ALTNETS are XGS-PON or 50PON in Netomnia’s case.
Another few years and we can cast them aside in the residential space, with the trash hopefully.
They really aren’t, they shot themselves in the foot rolling out GPON over XGSPON and now playing catch up to the likes of Virgin and the smaller names with symmetrical speeds.
I’m sorry, but you cant reasonably sell me a Gigabit line with a 1:10 ratio and I cant be the only person who is able to give them the swift finger by oaying 20 quid less for symmetrical.
@jephy
not sure where ur getting £20 less. plusnet 900mb is £36.99 + a £50 voucher currently, available at around 60% of the uk, compared to an alt net around 20% of the uk. dont get either where i am, but openreach full fibre build is meant to start in around 6 months and no alt net at all
@Polish Poler:
A sustainable profit model is one which is profitable after taking all costs into account, unlike the claims of profitablity that are being based on EBITA figures.
@Polish Poler:
The reduction in the number of lines BT is referring to includes the losses of all Openreach clients.
Yes, there are signs of Sky moving customers to CityFibre.
@FANNY ADAMS:
How many of those AltNet network providers are profitable?
BT has indicated that it is now at the point where cash generation will increase, and in less than two years’ time, the business will be in a far better financial position. Some of the AltNets may indeed be ahead in the roll-out of the leading technologies, but BT is one of the few businesses that will be making profits in the sector.
@Jephy:
Businesses may not be able to sell you a specific product based on the technology, given that you will have a better understanding of the technology than most customers, but that is not reflective of the market, which is driven by a whole range of customer choices and requirements. The success of any given business in the broadband sector is measured in terms of take-up, unit costs, and earnings per customer, not on any individual’s personal choices alone.
It’s one thing Openreach stating loses by technology (their ADSL v AltNet FTTP, for example), but it’d also be interesting to see those loses by provider as well (ie Sky, TT, BT themselves), but I imagine that’s confidential.
If an Altnet deploys fiber to an area before Openreach, then guess who’s going to the Altnet. It’s pretty simple.
Openreach were at our new build only, Virgin came last year rolled out XGSPON and I left instantly. I even put up with that joke of a “customer service ” Virgin media has become since the Liberty Global buyout just for the symmetrical.
Sadly I was one of those people as there is still no Openreach network 2 years after I moved to an Alt-net.
I would move back to BT in a heartbeat if I could regardless of price.
Alt Nets, absolute shambles with dangerous practices, the lot of them!
@Tele-Addict: I wonder if you could share with us the Altnet you were with, always good to know which one you had the problem with, so they can be avoided by people seeking to join. Thanks
The career summary for the new CFO indicates that she has significant experience in M&A initiatives.
@Far2329Light: The recent speculation regarding a bid by BT for the consumer side of TalkTalk, may not be “pie in the Sky” as some have thought, when we see the credentials of the new CFO.
*Fibre Scriber says:
@Fibre Scribe:
I cannot confirm the TalkTalk talks. That may have been speculative rumour aimed at trying to provoke a move, but few will know what actually happened.
The new CFO will not be taking up her post until the middle of 2026, so that would not be soon enough to address the immediate concerns that TalkTalk is causing other providers. She will, however, be in place in time for the shift in BT’s financial profile, which will quickly build a large acquisition fund as the investment spending is stepped down.
@Far2329Light, the way you speak, makes it sound like you are BT related. If so, explains some of your posts.
@FANNY ADAMS:
Grow up.
Start offering a fair price for there products. Look at Alt-Nets you can get 1gig for £35. But if you want “900” it’s minimum of £45 and it’s not symmetrical either. So if they lose customers it’s on them.
judging by the reliability issues that have arisen from some of these altnets, you probably get what you pay for.
BT lowers their price slightly in areas with competition. A double-overbuilt postcode near me lists BT’s 900Mbps for £38.99. Most people don’t care about symmetric speeds, though it is evident that Openreach is preparing to roll this out at some point soon.
They can’t really go much lower because Ofcom doesn’t permit BT to compete in a fair, two-way manner. That can’t last much longer.
On the other hand if they start cutting their prices to match the altnets then the altnets will go screaming to Ofcom about unfair competition.
@Kyle, Fanny agrees with you.
Not being symmetric and stuck on legacy GPON with no hope of XGS-PON for existing customers in medium term even as trials were supposed to start in April, but no news on them.
Sky had enough waiting for the BT dinosaur and got carriage on Cityfibre’s network. That is really going to bit over the next few years along with Voda3 pricing on CF network, especially if they start bundling 5G once they have finished integration with 3’s network for better coverage and speeds.
It started with Alison from BT the other week stating they were worried about ALTNETS, covered on ISP Review, the slow downhill glide that is inevitable, unless they convince government friends in Ofcom to favour them…………………….
As usual another person hasnt a clue how much it costs to run a national network
If Altnets put the prices at a decent price maybe they would be in profit and not a loss
BT Ivor says “They can’t really go much lower because Ofcom doesn’t permit BT to compete in a fair, two-way manner. That can’t last much longer.”
Why can’t it? BT have inherited customers from being on their network already through ADSL/VDSL and still have the biggest numbers by far, and partly because their brand established as household name for decades and decades.
The competing networks have neither, so in my book, tough BT, it should stay where it is for now. They had their opportunity to shine and they chose (again) a legacy technology GPON.
As for your statement about symmetrical speeds – it will take years on BT, and you omitted it will be priced by tiers of upload speeds – meaning expensive. By default, ALTNETS that offer symmetric, which is most, offer same upload and download in one price. Even Virgin Media offer symmetric on their newest network with NexFibre and will do so when they convert the HFC coax network to full fibre by 2028 for ALL areas (some already gone live for new customers for areas already provisioned).
@Tyler says “As usual another person hasnt a clue how much it costs to run a national network”.
A rather bland statement without factual evidence there. An ALTNET, like Netomnia (via You Fibre ISP) as low installation costs per premise, carefully selected end user equipment that doesn’t result in loads of swap out costs, a network using 50POn which means virtually no congestion at the network level (yes, it can happen higher up the chain if not careful), so no credits to customers because of speed issues or tech visits for it, controlled methodology over operations and support thereby reducing cost, more future proofing of technology by not picking out of date technology like GPON.
An ALTNET doesn’t have the millions of customers expecting support and requiring multiple call centres. They probably use a lot of automation runbooks in their chain to reduce costs and be pro-active in spotting potential issues like capacity.
It may have many more customers to support in the future when they can raise prices, for now, a number of Altnets can price a bit cheaper because of these types of factors. They have debt, same as BT, but they have factored that into repayments and break even etc.
But they are shining. Openreach continues to have FTTP takeup levels that the altnets don’t come close to. BT’s consumer business is up as well.
As for this alleged care/attention/automation/proactivity argument – on this website and its forum, people have noted that your beloved YouFibre seems to have suddenly dropped IPv6 support for many of its customers (and that their support teams are literally copy and pasting ChatGPT responses).
Someone claiming to be “Jeremy” says it is due to an OLT bug. Won’t they be using the same make/models of OLT that Openreach, CityFibre and others are using? Perhaps they need to implement some of these measures instead of handing out 50GPON ONTs to one or two customers and issuing press releases about how great it all is.
All while the “dinosaur” keeps trucking on with dependable service and printing lots of money doing so.
Oh, it’s quite easy to be cheaper if you don’t much care about making a profit. Ever.
@84.08khz – See news stories around this from CF and this week from Netomnia. Jeremy seems pretty confident of their results, assuming the poster IS Jeremy.
@BTIvor, just to say I am 100% happy with the service I get from the Altnet, super-duper fast, not that I need it, been reliable for 99% if not more since I have had it installed. The only problem was the first week when some nit decided to cut a main fibre, but it affected other networks as well, not just mine.
i know other people with the same provider and they all have the same happiness with theirs.
The only problem with Zzoomm is their router, it is not great.
My partner uses Gigaclear and she have had not had any problems either, I chat to other people online using Altnets, again, they are happy.
I know that some people have had issues and some altnets could be better when laying the fibre. I had a moan about those laying Zzoomm fibre a couple of times and think they could have done better in some places. But that is contractors for you. Openreach is not perfect in that field either, by a long way.
Considering that I did not want to go onto fibre and as much as I hate Openreach I was happy to stay on FTTC, due to be hones not wanting to go through the same hassle I did when I went for a wireless network a few years ago. I think I have made the right choice to try a alt network.
Just glad people have a choice of networks and that a lot of people are taking that choice you may not like it, not sure why the hell it makes any difference to you or the other Openreach/BT fanboys unless they work for them.
I am glad that people are changing networks, what will happen in the future, who knows.
Now I am going to carry on sorting out my stupid PC. I HATE WINDOWS
@Fanny Adams
Interesting points, but worth clarifying a few things about Netomnia and the broader context of altnets:
Yes, Netomnia via YouFibre is known for streamlined operations, lower install costs per premise, and smart equipment choices. But it’s inaccurate to imply they’re uniquely innovative in that space. Most altnets today follow similar models — using PIA (as Netomnia does), off-the-shelf CPE, and XGS-PON or similar tech to stay competitive.
However, Netomnia is not building an entirely proprietary network — they’re heavily reliant on Openreach’s PIA ducts and poles. That inherently limits their future flexibility and scalability in some regions, especially when compared to vertically integrated operators. Also, while 50:1 split ratios reduce local congestion, congestion points higher up (at handover and peering) are still relevant, even for altnets.
The claim that altnets like Netomnia avoid tech visits or credits altogether is optimistic — no provider is immune to faults, maintenance needs, or customer issues.
Finally, while they may avoid some legacy baggage that Openreach deals with, they don’t have to maintain or modernise a nationwide infrastructure, nor do they carry the burden of PSTN migration or hybrid networks.
Netomnia is certainly a credible and well-run altnet — but like most in the space, it benefits from PIA access and investor support rather than having reinvented the wheel. Let’s not overstate their uniqueness in what’s now a very crowded field.
Ivor:
‘Someone claiming to be “Jeremy” says it is due to an OLT bug. Won’t they be using the same make/models of OLT that Openreach, CityFibre and others are using?’
Neither Openreach or CityFibre use the OLTs Netomnia use. Don’t believe CityFibre have ever used Adtran, Openreach started off with either the SDX 6020-48 or something from the TA-5000 series and moved to the SDX 6330-48. Most of Netomnia’s OLTs are 6320-16s. Not only different hardware but they’ll be on different firmware versions.
As upgrading OLT firmware is disruptive and potentially problematic it isn’t something to be done lightly so has to be planned once fix is built. If the issue is an intermittent one which it obviously is very hard for a network to catch in testing. Fixed version has to be tested too.
The AltNets are charging heavily discounted prices, which their financial backers will be unable to fund indefinitely.
This is the game for the next few years. How many lines can BT stomach to lose, how many can the altnets gain. There’s liquidity in the market now for the altnets, but they will need 30% penetration in most of their locations by 2027 to be sustainable. Only metric that matters now is penetration rates.
Strong results see shares rise over 5% this morning.
Allison’s promised land ever closer.
It is not just the Altnets. The mobile providers are increasing mobile broadband offers and THREE are particularly aggressive currently. Those with modest data/speed requirements have a lot more choice now.
It is probably small but some OR customers have moved to EE Mobile Broadband. But its an indication that its more complex than just picking a specific number.
Current pricing is distorted by investment funding, a scramble for market share etc. BT’s costs remain high due to legacy overheads. I use A&A and Zen as the benchmarks to the real costs of service provision knowing of course the big boys can get economies of scale.
Things will change. Enjoy the current competition.
A&A is a good baseline choice. They are showing a 1 Gbps asymmetric unlimited at GBP 85.00 pm. The services offered by some of the AltNet ISPs would probably be nearer the GBP 100.00 mark if they were charging unsubsidised prices.
ALTNETS should smell blood now and go on a collective, co-ordinated approach via a ONE web site to look up coverage in an area so potential customers can know WHO is their ALTNET(s) in their area and then get redirected to the ISP site for sign-up.
A careful, targeted approach to advertising like billboards, with bullet points why they are better, UK Support, No in contract price increases, low latency, upload and download speeds the same, re-contracting customers get new customer pricing etc etc etc. This would vary by ALTNET obviously as to what they offer. TV and radio is too expensive. Online and bill boards.
Lots of amusing posts from you today of course.
But why do you think the altnets would co-ordinate on anything? They’ve spent years overbuilding each other on the same streets, so in many cases they are actually direct competitors to each other as well as to Openreach.
How would they issue a unified sales campaign when they aren’t all the same? I’ve said before that my parents’ altnet is not symmetric, nor is it particularly cheap (EE’s 1.8Gbps would be cheaper, if OR FTTP was available)
It’d be like asking Openreach to put an altnet checker on their own website.
BT appears to have reduced the rate of customer losses this quarter.
This will be alarming to Altnets who are heavily focusing on customer acquisition now rather than build.
The on-boarding of Hyperoptic to the Openreach network is interesting and helpful too. It will be disappointing to CityFibre and Virgin’s wholesale arms.
We will have to see if we get any indication of line losses from VirginO2 next week to get a better picture on Altnet performance.
The blood the Alnets are smelling may well be from the ink on their balance sheets.
@Fanny
What you describe is illegal under The Competition Act and gets people sent to prison. You must not collaborate on pricing with your competitors. You must not agree to divide territories with your competitors. This is basic stuff.
@125us, what is illegal? Nobody said about collaborating with pricing? As I stated, different ALTNETS have different offerings. Netomnia is the only one AFAIK that currently has recontacting customers get new customer pricing. The billboard adverts are per ISP not shared ISP.
A single lookup of coverage on a coverage checker web site just tells you who gives coverage. You still have to visit the ISP’s own site to sign up. Ofcom can allow this, even if it currently isn’t.
More premises passed than any other network, a faster build rate than any other network & more paying customers than any other network. Case closed.
“BT appears to have reduced the rate of customer losses this quarter.”
This is the interesting part, and if that reduction continues over subsequent quarters. Some loss is inevitable, at least in the short to medium term.Its the long game that matters.
Big Dave says: Yep, definitely on track to reach their target in 2026.
Evan Nexfibre cannot compete with BT Group’s build and quality.
Investors are happy with what they are doing; they are sticking to a plan and executing. Share price is flying today.
I think the public has access to sites that compare broadband packages already.
If the AltNets did something that specifically excluded the majors without formal mergers, then that would be at risk of an intervention by the CMA.
BT Fans, time will tell 🙂
Already 2-3 stories, 1 from Alison the CEO of BT herself worrying about ALTNETS, two on numbers.
Both represented LOSS of existing customers, whilst there is obviously still growth in new areas or from new customers in existing areas. The latter as VM will tell you, gets limited after a while if you consistently have your customers leaving post initial contract term (and this will only get higher in the future not lower).
Its obvious there are BT fans with vested interests on here, else why would you try and talk down competition that actually has a superior symmetric service in most cases, no in contract price rises from some, and You Fibre with re-contracting customers always get new customer pricing.
As a consumer, you’d welcome this. If you didn’t, years ago there would have been no Virgin Media (cable companies), and that would have meant just BT and ropey FTTC with varying speeds or just ADSL in larger swathes. VM kept BT dancing at the time and was good for all, except BT employees, BT shareholders..
I glad you have so much time on your hands to give us the benefit of your wisdom.
So much opinion when the only reaction that really matters to be honest is this one:
BT Group BT.A Price (GBX) 220.20 +10.43% (20.80)
That’s a huge move for a company of BT’s size.
This made me laugh though, so thanks for that:
‘An ALTNET, like Netomnia (via You Fibre ISP) as low installation costs per premise, carefully selected end user equipment that doesn’t result in loads of swap out costs, a network using 50POn which means virtually no congestion at the network level (yes, it can happen higher up the chain if not careful), so no credits to customers because of speed issues or tech visits for it, controlled methodology over operations and support thereby reducing cost, more future proofing of technology by not picking out of date technology like GPON.
An ALTNET doesn’t have the millions of customers expecting support and requiring multiple call centres. They probably use a lot of automation runbooks in their chain to reduce costs and be pro-active in spotting potential issues like capacity.’
The biggest altnet has spent about a grand per premises on their build.
For most of them the main criteria for their kit selection is price. Not like ONTs really fail much anyway, they’re pretty reliable.
50GPON uses a rack-mounted ONT so hardly going to be all over the place and a customer needs to have one to not contribute to congestion on XGSPON so useful for the future but not right now.
The only noteworthy access network level congestion and speed issues were on an altnet with some more issues on others due to backhaul, the idea they’ve somehow better ‘methodology and support thereby reducing cost’ than all the larger players is ridiculous.
Using that they don’t have many customers expecting support isn’t a win, support costs per customer scale down as number of customers goes up. Call centres are a thing because they bring economies of scale and other efficiencies.
That ignores the absurdity of saying a company is better because it has fewer customers. By that logic it’s great business for a restaurant to be empty all the time as it needs fewer waiters. The altnets need to fill their networks to generate revenue which means support demand goes up. Their networks are still being built which increases support demand as that stuff is incredibly hard to do with zero outages.
‘Automation runbooks’ whatever you mean by that, presumably that they have tons more automation in their operations than bigger players, cost money. The most visible altnet’s operations, CityFibre’s, seem to mostly copy Openreach which is smart. Incidentally they burned a lot of cash on operations, as did some other altnets despite their automation runbooks.
Solutions are usually off the shelf which works okay and to build bespoke ones that are more efficient requires time and money. Openreach’s ‘automation runbooks’ are going to be superior simply because they are custom and they’ve had the time and money to invest in them.
Let’s pick on a couple of basic factual inaccuracies:
‘Not being symmetric and stuck on legacy GPON with no hope of XGS-PON for existing customers in medium term even as trials were supposed to start in April’
No they weren’t, you are thinking of the symmetric 1000 services which launched as planned. They released a STIN in April that ISPReview noticed in May, no dates or terms for trials on it only the technical details. That information will be behind the login wall.
‘BT is in decline in residential market where they deserve to be’
This is in the article: ‘Consumer customer base grew in the quarter, with broadband base up 11k and postpaid mobile base up 41k’.
Have been an altnet customer for 3 years. They’re doing incredible work. Openreach customer for 5 years. They’re doing ‘ok’ though the upload sucks. Room in the market for both and loving the 3+way competition. Doesn’t change that as per you haven’t a clue what you’re talking about. Same fixation with PON standards with a bunch of added nonsense about an industry you’ve clearly never been involved in at any level but thanks for sharing your wisdom and helping me burn 20 minutes.
@Polish Poler, share prices can change in a heart beat, certainly the way things are. Only have to look at Asda, the top store at one time and now look at them
Sure they are in a different business, but just shows what can happen.
I bet BTIvor is happy with his thousands stashed in BT shares
It was only a couple of years ago BT on its knees because of debt and pension debt. The markets spoke of take overs etc.
Can change at any point. As I said let’s review in 3 years. They will continue to lose customers as the yearly price increases get crazy and ALTNETS become more known and a number bigger through roll out and consolidation, and a large chunk of Sky customers switched to City Fibre within 5 years. Decline as we’ve already seen new customers leaving at end of contract. BT only building for a while not forever so you can’t cover losses with new roll out customers…..
BT now has a sustainable profit model in the broadband sector. Only KCOM and BT are in such a position in the UK market. Many of the AltNet network providers will need another decade or thereabouts, based on their current reported growth profiles, to attain the necessary level of take-up to achieve a sustainable profit model.
In the meantime, BT will be cash generative to the tune of about GBP 3bn pa from 2026 onwards. BT will therefore have the tools, the people, and the means to buy significant partners in the sector that will put many of the AltNet network providers at risk of becoming sidelined in the M&A activity because they are too small, too niche, or too expensive to acquire.
That is not being a fanboy of BT, that is just how markets work.
What new rollout customers, they’re overbuilding themselves?
The net loss is over copper and fibre, overbuilding their copper with fibre doesn’t give them ‘new rollout customers’ they had copper there anyway.
Only new premises they’re passing are new build properties and unless you know something I don’t those are going to be a thing for a while.
@FANNY ADAMS:
The AltNets may still be acquiring customers from BT, but BT is now profitable in its Broadband business, while none of the AltNet networks or ISPs are profitable, and many may well never attain profitability unless they start charging more realistic prices.
@FANNY ADAMS:
A Symmetrical Broadband connection may be a key selling point for some, but at the scale of the whole broadband market, what proportion of residential customer base do you think that particular group of potential customers represent?
Further, how many in that special interest “Fanboy” group do you think would continue to sign up to contracts for symmetrical connections if they were charged a more realistic price that was closer to GBP 100.00 pm than GBP 35.00 pm?
It would still be choice. You can;t even have that with Bt. You get dictated to.
As for realistic price – this is all subjective to opinion. SOME Altnets are efficient and have lower cost and no pension debt or costly multiple call centres to run. When they need to ramp up in a few years, AI would have replaced most of the requirement for people anyway…….Similar to bank branches disappearing.
@FANNY ADAMS:
A symmetrical connection is not the primary criteria for the majority of consumers in the selection of their next broadband contract. Further, BT is not withholding the service; they are making the necessary upgrades in their infrastructure to offer such products to consumers. You are obsessing over the availability of symmetrical connections. You are sounding like the “fanboy” that you so freely accuse others of being. All you are doing is undermining your own point of view.
The numbers are not subjective; they speak for themselves and are the single source of truth. The various businesses can make all the claims they like, but the performance of their businesses will be revealed in their numbers. Some AltNets are performing well, but only KCOM and BT are now making sustainable profits in the sector.
@Big Dave,
My pleasure. I am glad I enlightened you over brainwashing of BT going on here in these forums…
btw, today a £4 increase by BT PER YEAR in-contract for new customers and those re-contracting going forward. I’m sure you will love the new increase and eager to give more to shareholders and CEO team salaries.
@Far2329Light, I am not aligned to any ONE provider unlike the blatant BT sheep on here.
You are right , most customers don’t go for symmetric BUT if you said “would you like the same upload speed as your download speed, and it be cheaper” they’d take your arm off.
Yep, BT (at some point in the next 10 years) will offer symmetric “tiers”. A marketing buzz word that slices the cake up into layers of additional pricing for each (speed) tier. Still be expensive over an ALTNET which in majority of cases is UPLOAD = DOWNLOAD and PRICING = CHEAPER THAN BT
@FANNDY ADAMS:
Before attacking other people posting here, I suggest you take a look at your own comments.
I will be ending my openreach FTTP line as soon as my contract is up the reason is simple, i can get symmetric fibre cheaper than any openreach ISP. So why would I spend more, to get less. Openreach seem to think nobody cares about upload.
That is one of the reason I changed to altnet. Plusnet kept pushing me to go onto FTTP, I was fine to stay on FTTC, but they shoved the price up and the price they offered for FTTC, plus the 24-month contract did not appeal to me.
I was thinking about Zzoomm anyway, and they stuck a card in my door, £24 a month on a 12-month contract, 500Mb/s up and down. I would have gone even for 150Mb/s as the price was less than Plusnet and no price rises in the contract, where Plusnet was more expensive, 24-month contract and price rises in that contract.
Better network and cheaper.
“Openreach seem to think nobody cares about upload”
And contributors on this site seem to think they represent the buying attitudes of the mass market.
Ahh bless. You stick to your mass market provider Stephen, with its legacy asymmetric GPON offering.
Meanwhile, some of us have choice to choose a more non mass market offering providing better technology that provides symmetric usually at a lower price, and depending on the ALTNET, no in contract price increases.
Mass market product doesn’t mean a quality product. Just done to a price for BT. That sums them up. Bit like a Tesco Value product…..
Cool: your choice and the market at work. I like this a lot. If more people do this it’ll focus Openreach on providing symmetrical speeds. Right now contrary to what the usual suspect stuck on Virgin Media cable and intensely butthurt over it might say it still isn’t that much of a thing, sadly.
Openreach aren’t stupid. Their customers aren’t stupid. When they need to they’ll get it enabled: they’ve been upgrading in the background since at least early 2024.
What happens to the broadband market in the UK will be determined by the major players. The key event to watch for would seem to be the decision that the EU is expected to make about the consolidation within the EU markets – allowing a shift from the four players per market to three – a decision that the UK has already had to make.
Once there is clarity on policy within the EU, a wave of takeover battles over there may well trigger further activity in the UK. As it stands, I do not think there is any single major player that could not disappear from the UK market over the next ten-year period.
Openreach might not lose so many lines if they were more effective at installations – they can be remarkably poor at this – I’ve got a business install where we are STILL waiting for Openreach 6 weeks in – for no reason other than they have a terribly convoluted process to get ducks in a row to let it happen.
If you’ve got a choice of OR or someone else, the ‘someone else’ is almost always faster.
If you are in the process of having an install done by Openreach, you are not looking to move to another network provider.
Openreach need to get a grip in this, as given a choice, customers may end up cancelling and going to an altnet.
@The real Witcher: There is no indication of there being anything other than local problems. Openreach performs well overall. How well do all the other providers perform? All providers have been reducing eadcount so businesees will not be performing as many connections as they did before.