By: MarkJ - 4 February, 2012 (7:17 AM) - Score: 1621 - Fixed Line Broadband
uk aaisp broadband ispThe Director of broadband provider AAISP (Andrews & Arnold), Adrian Kennard, has accused the Ofcom approved Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) schemes (CISAS and Ombudsman Services) of being an "unfair" and "one-side pays regardless" style arbitration system. The situation began after one of AAISP's customers raised a seemingly questionable dispute.

ADR schemes are generally meant to supplement, not replace, an ISPs internal complaints procedures and can only be used after a dispute has gone unresolved for 8 weeks. The service is free (for consumers) and can order your ISP to either fix the problem or pay compensation. Check out our 'ISP Complaints and Advice' section for more.

Related schemes are a vital last resort for tackling ISPs that don't play fair with their customers, although ISPs are forced to pay the costs regardless of whether or not they win. This encourages ISPs to take complaints seriously and covers the ADR's own costs. Sadly not all complaints that reach an ADR could be considered fair.

Adrian Kennard, Director of AAISP, said:

"ADR is unfair - buy definition - it is a "one-side pays regardless" arbitration scheme unlike the much cheaper country court small claims track where loser pays. We are even tempted to offer customers a scheme where we will pay their fees up front for taking us to court rather than ADR if they have a dispute, after all such a scheme would be a tenth of the cost in most cases."

A seemingly similar situation recently cropped up after one of AAISP's business customers took the ISP to an ADR. The customer asked for 4 x ADSL2+ (Annex M) broadband lines to be bonded for their video streaming system but an error by BT caused a delay with the installation of two lines (installation delays are generally quite common). We note that no firm installation date was ever actually agreed with the customer.

AAISP claims to have gone "well over and above the contractual requirements" to get the problem resolved and the customer allegedly ended up being happy with the service. Shortly after that the same customer raised a dispute, which demanded that the installation price be refunded because of the delay and any lost business incurred (even though 2 lines were already working).

Despite not being in breach of contract and claiming to have "installed the lines and got annex M ... all in time", AAISP still opted to issue a good will credit for £272 and even though they didn't have to (indeed many ISPs would not do that). Months later an ADR case is unexpectedly launched.

Adrian Kennard, Director of AAISP, said:

"The claim says we have been unhelpful and they lost business due to the delays, and states how much they have paid. It also says how much they calculate they should have paid which is £7 less. We told the Ombudsman that £7 was clearly a frivolous claim, and already more than settled, but they are going ahead anyway?!?! Today we sent them the case file - something like 500 pages. Good luck!

...

A&A have long had concerns over the whole ADR scheme, and this case just shows how it can be abused. A clear case of A&A falling over backwards to help a customer and go way beyond the agreed contract terms, and then having a £350 bill thrown in our faces."

Situations like this are unlikely to convince too many consumers that ADR's are, as a whole, a bad thing. They exist because some ISPs don't play fair with their customers and remain a vital tool, especially for tackling big providers where mistakes can be quite common.

Ultimately we've only heard one side of the story here but Kennard does, as usual, raise some interesting points. At the same time many of the concerns above were expressed to Ofcom during the scheme's creation and we've yet to see anybody present evidence of truly widespread abuse.

Making ADR schemes more efficient, effective and fair for both parties would be advantageous for everybody but right now there's no sign of that happening.
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Comments: 12

asa logoDeduction
Posted: 4 February, 2012 - 2:56 PM
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quote"We note that no firm installation date was ever actually agreed with the customer."

I assume this was a BE based product in which case this is a bit poor of AAISP, even BE Retail keep you informed on dates both regarding when equipment is sent out and when your service is likely to go live, along with an email/text when it has. If the install date was late i agree the person should be refunded the install fee no matter who the ISP is. If that install fee was more than the £272 "goodwill" payment then they have every right to complain. After all if the ISP has done no wrong why pay that in the first place.

ADR schemes are needed and i see nothing wrong with how it currently works.

From what i understand on my reading of CISAs both parties get the chance to put their story forward. In this case they obviously feel the case needs further investigation.
asa logoMarkJ
Posted: 4 February, 2012 - 5:20 PM
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You'd normally only refund the install fee if that was part of the agreed contract terms or the service hadn't actually been installed, neither of which seem to apply here and the ISP has to pay BT for the work regardless.

If you want install guarantees then you can easily pick a package that comes with those and an appropriate SLA, at extra cost of course. Such is the way of things.
asa logoDeduction
Posted: 4 February, 2012 - 5:57 PM
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Do they not have an SLA on a business package?
asa logoRevK
Posted: 4 February, 2012 - 6:14 PM
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It will be very interesting to see how the case actually pans out. I am very concerned over ADR. I may be surprised and they may find this is indeed a silly case where we did no wrong. I do hope so. If not then I will be even more against ADR than I am now. That said, even if they find that we did no wrong, as I am completely confident is the case, we are still out of pocket by £350 due to actions of a customer. A customer that basically refused to state what they were claiming and why when I asked.

Anyway, I'll report what happens in the final decision on this.

We always try to be fair with our customers, but "fair" is a two way street.
asa logoDeduction
Posted: 4 February, 2012 - 6:46 PM
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quote"A customer that basically refused to state what they were claiming and why when I asked."

If they have made out any complaint properly to CISAs the reason will be in that.

If the ISP concerned in cases like this have done no wrong they have nothing to fear.

The ADR is a good thing, without it SOME ISPs would get away with even more than they do now.
asa logoMartin Pitt - Aquiss
Posted: 4 February, 2012 - 8:38 PM
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@Deduction
This does not appear to be a case brought forward by CISAS. AAISP are, like ourselves, members of Ombudsman Services (who were called Otelo).


@RevK
I'm really concerned to read how this case has been brought forward, though in a way i'm not surprised by how you have been treated by the Ombudsman Services.

We found staff there, when we wanted help to ensure our customer contracts read correctly were just not helpful at all. Hand your membership monies over and get nothing in return. We turned to CISAS, as non members, who helped us greatly. Far more professional. Our intention is to move ADRs as a result. Maybe you should consider the same?
asa logoMatt
Posted: 5 February, 2012 - 12:18 AM
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@Deduction

A point you are missing, it may not be just a case of "nothing to fear" but the fundamental fact that the ISP has to pay for this "service" for being a member as well as any complaints raised to it.

The charge per case is paid by the ISP regardless of if they win or loose.

They are punished even if the ADR states they have acted correctly and could do no more to correct any complaint, be it warranted or not.

That is wrong.
asa logoDeduction
Posted: 5 February, 2012 - 4:51 PM
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quote"@Deduction
This does not appear to be a case brought forward by CISAS. AAISP are, like ourselves, members of Ombudsman Services (who were called Otelo)."

I just assumed they were probably members of both due to the story stating...

The Director of broadband provider AAISP (Andrews & Arnold), Adrian Kennard, has accused the Ofcom approved Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) schemes (CISAS and Ombudsman Services) of being an "unfair"

How does he know CISA is unfair if not a member?.

The complaint made by the user about AAISP may indeed be wrong. In that case can they not recover costs against the person via a private civil dispute? Obviously that would be a hassle but that is not the point.

Id also like to know more about the case first particularly who if anyone the users prior ISP was. To me it sounds like sour grapes a bit.
asa logoGreg
Posted: 5 February, 2012 - 7:46 PM
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AAISP ... have you seen how much these rip-off merchants are
charging for bog standard ADSL broadband services?

Have a look here: http://aaisp.net.uk/broadband-prices.html
asa logoDeduction
Posted: 6 February, 2012 - 12:19 AM
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Their pricing i wouldnt call a rip off, not the easiest or clearest in the world to comprehend though, maybe.
asa logoYou
Posted: 6 February, 2012 - 2:08 PM
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The ADR schemes are quite ridiculous indeed, the contracts from both companies heavily favour the customer even if the customer is entirely wrong leaving the ISP with the costs.

I asked both CISAS and Otele to clarify this, neither would even respond during our attempt to signup. CISAS actually took 2 months to respond with the application form and are taking just as long to get payment details to us.
asa logoDeduction
Posted: 7 February, 2012 - 1:25 AM
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What ISP do you run "you"?



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